Author Topic: Book Discussion About DB Cooper  (Read 55833 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #315 on: February 11, 2018, 03:39:16 PM »
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Just like failing to mention the previous "clearing" in the 2016 show (and, to which, no explanation as to why he was cleared has been provided by the bureau)

correct, but they have never really explained why they dismiss the other thousand plus suspects. it's not just Tom's team. it would be nice to hear, but they feel it's not really any of our biz IMO..

Agent Carr mentions Christiansen, but only says he only matched the description by being male, and then goes onto to say a couple other things. that hasn't stopped Robert Blevins...

Rackstraw has been dismissed several times..I was told by someone very well into the case, and very well known that basic evidence has been ignored, and a bunch of complicated hearsay evidence is all it is...the main witness said NO...just how many stones do you wish to gather?
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #316 on: February 11, 2018, 03:56:05 PM »
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Thank you so much! And not sure who Ckret is, but love the handle!

Ckret was Agent Larry Carr who was on Dropzone.com

have you had a chance to read the PDF of his comments?
I don't believe so - it's not ringing a bell. Is that in the vault?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #317 on: February 11, 2018, 03:58:07 PM »
Yes, in our vault towards the bottom files..
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #318 on: February 11, 2018, 03:59:33 PM »
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Yes, in our vault towards the bottom files..
- Okay, Scoob, we're off to the vault!
- Ra Rault?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #319 on: February 11, 2018, 03:59:57 PM »
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Offline Lynn

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #320 on: February 11, 2018, 04:02:27 PM »
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Yes, in our vault towards the bottom files..
Thanks, so much, this is gold! (Love the vault sound FX, by the way.) Right off the bat - he mentions that spilled drink. I'm hooked in.
 
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Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #321 on: February 11, 2018, 04:58:43 PM »
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(Caveat: to my mind, the doc didn't do that great a job eliminating most of the suspects - it piqued my own interest in a completely different suspect when I first saw it, in fact - but even in the early days of my own falling down this rabbit hole, I couldn't take Rackstraw seriously as a suspect and didn't understand why they were devoting so much of the doc to him and showing Tina only his photo.)

If you look at the coffee table when Tina was shown Rackstraw's photo, there was a photo of L.D. Cooper.  so, she might have been shown multiple photos.
 

Robert99

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #322 on: February 11, 2018, 05:07:37 PM »
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(Caveat: to my mind, the doc didn't do that great a job eliminating most of the suspects - it piqued my own interest in a completely different suspect when I first saw it, in fact - but even in the early days of my own falling down this rabbit hole, I couldn't take Rackstraw seriously as a suspect and didn't understand why they were devoting so much of the doc to him and showing Tina only his photo.)

If you look at the coffee table when Tina was shown Rackstraw's photo, there was a photo of L.D. Cooper.  so, she might have been shown multiple photos.

If Tina was shown photos of several people, then the LE people apparently had her do a "photo lineup".
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #323 on: February 11, 2018, 07:11:00 PM »
I'm guessing they were constantly contacting them the first couple years to show them photo's...Mitchell has made that claim in the past..

During the show I'm sure she looked at a lot of the known suspects prior to the camera coming on...I'll bet a lot of them have seen a lot of shows with these suspects over the years...
 

georger

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #324 on: February 11, 2018, 11:33:38 PM »
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Yes, in our vault towards the bottom files..
Thanks, so much, this is gold! (Love the vault sound FX, by the way.) Right off the bat - he mentions that spilled drink. I'm hooked in.

The crew interviews should be in the Vault - somewhere, not sure of title but you will know it when you see it. Thats a valuable file to keep handy ...

My Tina and Flo quotes I posted to you earlier were from that file ...
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:34:38 PM by georger »
 
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georger

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #325 on: February 11, 2018, 11:37:35 PM »
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Just like failing to mention the previous "clearing" in the 2016 show (and, to which, no explanation as to why he was cleared has been provided by the bureau)

correct, but they have never really explained why they dismiss the other thousand plus suspects. it's not just Tom's team. it would be nice to hear, but they feel it's not really any of our biz IMO..

Agent Carr mentions Christiansen, but only says he only matched the description by being male, and then goes onto to say a couple other things. that hasn't stopped Robert Blevins...

Rackstraw has been dismissed several times..I was told by someone very well into the case, and very well known that basic evidence has been ignored, and a bunch of complicated hearsay evidence is all it is...the main witness said NO...just how many stones do you wish to gather?

We know the answer to that - some people will go on forever. Its that 'cult' thing.

Now. This is message will disappear in five seconds, so be sure to take all metal off your person to avoid raddionic exposure@   :rofl:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:38:37 PM by georger »
 

Offline Mack

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #326 on: May 23, 2018, 01:32:33 AM »
@ Bruce.
The presentations you posted on YouTube are very well done.  I watched all of them and was impressed with your presentation skills and for your ability to convey the Cooper story to the public.

I have a couple of questions about comments you make during those presentations.

1) Re: Tina Bar money find. You mention that the pilot, Bill Rataczak, requested and was denied permission to fly out over the ocean.  After that idea was  nixed you theorize that Rataczak opted to fly as far east in the flight corridor as permissible in order to take DBC over more remote terrain and therefore Cooper's LZ would have been further east than what the FBI calculated. 
Question: wouldn't Rataczak have informed the FBI of this during his interviews so they would know where to look? After all, he was angry and wanted Cooper dead or caught as you said?

2) Re: Criticisim of the FBI for not getting their suits dirty and beating the bushes to look for Cooper. Question:  How many FBI agents where assigned to this case and available to go searching for Cooper in the suspected LZ? What percentage of the LZ could they have covered in one week's time?   I recall reading somewhere that the USAF flew SR-71 and other reconnaissance missions in support of the manhunt.  Any truth to that and wouldn't that be more effective than sending all available personnel into the woods where they would be out of contact during a critical time in the case?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #327 on: May 23, 2018, 03:29:26 AM »
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@ Bruce.
The presentations you posted on YouTube are very well done.  I watched all of them and was impressed with your presentation skills and for your ability to convey the Cooper story to the public.

I have a couple of questions about comments you make during those presentations.

1) Re: Tina Bar money find. You mention that the pilot, Bill Rataczak, requested and was denied permission to fly out over the ocean.  After that idea was  nixed you theorize that Rataczak opted to fly as far east in the flight corridor as permissible in order to take DBC over more remote terrain and therefore Cooper's LZ would have been further east than what the FBI calculated. 
Question: wouldn't Rataczak have informed the FBI of this during his interviews so they would know where to look? After all, he was angry and wanted Cooper dead or caught as you said?

2) Re: Criticisim of the FBI for not getting their suits dirty and beating the bushes to look for Cooper. Question:  How many FBI agents where assigned to this case and available to go searching for Cooper in the suspected LZ? What percentage of the LZ could they have covered in one week's time?   I recall reading somewhere that the USAF flew SR-71 and other reconnaissance missions in support of the manhunt.  Any truth to that and wouldn't that be more effective than sending all available personnel into the woods where they would be out of contact during a critical time in the case?

Thank you, Mack.

1. You ask a reasonable question about what Rataczak would have told the FBI about his flight path and where they should be looking for DB Cooper. It seems that Rataczak did tell Himmelsbach that 305 was east of Victor 23 and probably  over the Washougal. But when did he tell him? That is not known, really. Certainly not by me. Also, when and to what degree did Rataczak push the Washougal information towards the Seattle FBI agents? Again, unknown.

2. As I understand the case, about 30 agents were assigned to Norjak on the night of the skyjacking. This comes from Sid Rubin, a rookie SA on the case that night at Sea-Tac perimeter duty. Another SA rookie, George Grobin, told me that about two-dozen FBI agents were in the Amboy-Ariel area for the ground searches in March and April 1972. They did not get their shoes too muddy, but they were nearby. Over the course of the investigation, Bob Sale told Sailshaw and me that about five agents were assigned in Seattle  to Cooper through the first few years, with other Seattle agents being assigned as squads got special assignments, such as interviewing SOG guys at Fort Bragg, etc.

Yes, an SR-71 was assigned to fly recon over the potential LZ, but it was hampered most of the time due to cloud cover. I think it only had one or two "successful" missions. Geoffrey Gray discusses this aspect of the investigation in his  book, SKYJACK. There has been discussion here about a more reasonable technological means - using infrared devices immediately via helos and flying through the night to search for a warm body in the woods. Yes, the false reads due to wildlife would be staggering, but it is a plausible approach. Now, I would imagine that the NSA has got high tech gizmos on satellites to accomplish the same task.

Tom McDowell, the Cowlitz County Undersheriff who headed the ground search in LZ-A said that his search area was approximately 24 square miles, and his team of 20-24 deputies and volunteers covered about one square mile of terrain from Friday at 1pm until Monday morning when the search was terminated. That's basically three days with 20 guys to cover 5% of the prime LZ.

Bottom Line: A needle in a haystack is still a needle in a haystack even when you're looking with the latest gear.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #328 on: May 23, 2018, 06:12:20 AM »
SR-71 had zero success..5 attempts were made but cloud coverage hampered the mission everytime...this was mid January of 1972. 4 documents about this subject are in our Cooper vault..
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 06:13:03 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Book Discussion About DB Cooper
« Reply #329 on: May 23, 2018, 12:49:01 PM »
Bruce wrote: "There has been discussion here about a more reasonable technological means - using infrared devices immediately via helos and flying through the night to search for a warm body in the woods. Yes, the false reads due to wildlife would be staggering, but it is a plausible approach."

I worked in the field way back. FLIRS in 1971, the military grade ones with cryo cooled detectors, had quite good performance, but image recognition processing was in its infancy. Over the years, the performance of uncooled consumer grade FLIRS has improved and image recognition software performance today is phenomenal. Today it has evolved into options on automobiles. Look at this video: 
I have used the Audi NV system. Its ability to recognize humans and bracket them in yellow or red (depending on collision danger) is remarkable. You can have a group of people walking with dogs. The people are bracketed and the dogs are not. I think it looks for vertically oriented targets with human aspect ratios and temps around 98 degrees F. If it sees that it calls it a human. Just a guess on the software algorithms.

377

« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 12:49:19 PM by 377 »