Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 553440 times)

Online georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6150 on: April 05, 2021, 01:58:38 PM »
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No.

Let's say the money ends up on the banks of the Columbia in November 1971, spends the winter there before flood water and debris carries it to Tena Bar in June 1972.

Does it matter if that happened in 1972? Or 1976? Or 1979? No. All that matters is that it happened.

The only pertinence that WHEN has is if conditions were present to cause that to happen. But other than that, how long the money sat on Tena Bar is irrelevant in my mind.

Try to sell that in Court!

All facts are relevant. Every instant of time is potentially unique. There is this thing called history. Time is a sequence of events in time that tell a story. The how is that sequence ....  people are often asked 'how' a thing happened. What people usually want is the sequence or chain of events that lead up to a certain point or status quo, in time .... but every step along the way matters. Things evolve.

By your scenario, why would it matter is a particle was ever anything other than what it appears to be in the here-and-now? Or a species? Or a solar system? Or a whole Universe? History would mean nothing ... and existence would be a flat plate.... held up by a Unicorn!
Again, WHEN something happened is only relevant in terms of answering the question: did the conditions exist for something to occur? For example, TK's diatom research deals with WHEN, but only as it relates to HOW.

Independent of that, it really doesn't matter what year the money ended up on Tena Bar. We know it was some time between November 1971 and February 1980.

The far more important question is HOW it got there IMO.

This is a simple concept.

If we knew when, say 1974, then odds are it was DREDGING.  In science/testing, we sometimes have a when (a clock) but not the how, ie causal element. Likewise we sometimes have the how (death by gunshot) but not the when. When & How must agree.

Work on a time machine is still pending ...  :o 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 02:02:05 PM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6151 on: April 05, 2021, 04:18:21 PM »
You’re making my point. WHEN can help us with the HOW, but if we already know the HOW then the WHEN become irrelevant.
 

Online georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6152 on: April 07, 2021, 02:36:48 AM »
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You’re making my point. WHEN can help us with the HOW, but if we already know the HOW then the WHEN become irrelevant.

Thanks for the lessons!

Cops find a body that was shot. The means of death seems an apparent shooting victim.......... until the autopsy. At autopsy the the time of death appears to have been a day before the body was found shot. In addition the gun shot wound does not appear to have bled. Turns out the blood at the crime scene did not come from the victim being shot but from a second party who was also shot! Sorting all of this out they discover the dead person died of a heart attack the day before. He did not die from being shot! The victim was already a corpse when shot. The facts lead to a complicated story . . . had no autopsy been done the guy who was arrested probably would have gone to jail for for murder.

No autopsy has ever been done on the money. We only have a few diatoms found on one bill 50 years after the fact!   :rofl:

       
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 02:40:41 AM by georger »
 

Online georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6153 on: April 07, 2021, 03:04:51 PM »
Filling the Void:

We have a country store robbery at Heisson. Was it Cooper? Who knows. Even though records exist nobody in the public domain has ever seen the records. Apparently, the FBI was never able to connect the dots.

No 302s have surfaced which document the extent of a ground search at Portland-Vancouver. No interviews in hobo camps at Vancouver especially along that railroad that comes down from Heisson then goes west along River Road east of the Fazio property before turning north to go back in the direction of Seattle ... on the chance a stranger with a bag of money walked into the area that night, or the day after. ? Motels were canvassed but not the hobo camps. No self respecting deputy will wander into those hobo camps, quote: "I sure as hell would want to tangle with those guys!"

How many stages/places did the money go through before winding up at Tina Bar? Any lab evidence about that? Under any reasonable scenario Cooper or his body and the money bag dropped somewhere other than at Tina Bar, or even close to Tina Bar. From the lab evidence available to date (FBI & Tom Kaye) the money is uncontaminated at t1, then showing rounded sand particles and diatoms like those found in Columbia river water, at t2. Either Cooper landed in the river with the money or ... we are missing part of the story. Moreover, the autopsy to date doesn't even mention the obvious condition(s) of the body found, as seen in the 12 groups turned in by the Ingrams in Feb 1980! I guess in this autopsy we will just skip 99% of the body and go directly to the diatoms found on the guy's toe! The toenail looks normal to me!  :o         

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"

 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 03:18:15 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6154 on: April 09, 2021, 06:34:38 PM »
Carr, Dec. 2, 2007

The money....

"There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge.(according to the Ingrams) no brick of money. I found reference to 4 bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them."

Why would they be digging a pit for fire so close to the waters edge?
 
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6155 on: April 09, 2021, 08:09:09 PM »
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Carr, Dec. 2, 2007

The money....

"There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge.(according to the Ingrams) no brick of money. I found reference to 4 bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them."

Why would they be digging a pit for fire so close to the waters edge?
“Water’s edge” is pretty vague. 15 feet from the water could be “at the water’s edge” for some.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6156 on: April 09, 2021, 08:30:09 PM »
Just at the waters edge is pretty specific?
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6157 on: April 09, 2021, 09:00:14 PM »
I don't think the Ingram's meant that the firepit was inches from the water.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6158 on: April 09, 2021, 09:54:02 PM »
Maybe they needed to be close to the river so they could boil water for hot chocolate. Or be close to the water in case they had to put the fire out quickly.
 

Online georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6159 on: April 09, 2021, 11:21:23 PM »
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Carr, Dec. 2, 2007

The money....

"There were multiple bundles recovered under 3 to 6 inches of sand, just at the waters edge.(according to the Ingrams) no brick of money. I found reference to 4 bundles, of which the rubber bands were still around them."

Why would they be digging a pit for fire so close to the waters edge?

Source of these quote is ? ...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6160 on: April 09, 2021, 11:28:25 PM »
Post made by Carr...found on the DZ and the notes of Carr comments constructed by WSHS..
 

Online georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6161 on: April 09, 2021, 11:54:16 PM »
Lunar data for Portland 20:10 11-24-71 ... this was posted at DZ years ago.

Planetarium is Stellarium - Wiki Sky.   At 20:10 as seen from Portland, the moon was about 35% above the southern horizon almost directly south. ~41% of the moon's disk illuminated.

Keep track of the fact R99 reports nobody could see anything due to cloud cover and fog ?   :nono:   However, anyone with any current navigational knowledge who knew where Mars and the Moon were, not only would have been able to estimate the time at 2010 but would have had directional markers to orient by ...   
« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 04:35:12 AM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6162 on: April 10, 2021, 01:29:34 AM »
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Lunar data for Portland 20:10 11-24-71 ... this was posted at DZ years ago.

Planetarium is Stellarium - Wikisky.   At 20:10 as seen from Portland, the moon was about 35% above the southern horizon almost directly south. ~41% of the moon's disk illuminated.

Keep track of the fact R99 reports nobody could see anything due to cloud cover and fog ?   :nono:   However, anyone with any current navigational knowledge who knew where Mars and the Moon were, not only would have been able to estimate the time at 2010 but would have had directional markers to orient by ...

Georger, just exactly what leads you to believe that there were no clouds above the 10,000 foot level of the airliner?  In fact, there is no information at all about clouds above the overcast which was at 5,000 feet, if I remember correctly.

And if you claim that the airliner was flying in clear skies, where did the rain and stormy weather the flight crew claimed they were flying in at 10,000 feet when Cooper jumped come from?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6163 on: April 10, 2021, 02:14:03 AM »
Good point, R99. Sounds like the soup extended to 10K at least. Rataczak told me it was a "pretty bumpy ride."
 

Online georger

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Re: Tena Bar Money Find
« Reply #6164 on: April 10, 2021, 05:07:09 AM »
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Good point, R99. Sounds like the soup extended to 10K at least. Rataczak told me it was a "pretty bumpy ride."

Did you ask if he could see the Moon? Of course not.