Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1842320 times)

georger

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2355 on: December 07, 2016, 05:17:49 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
erosion is a huge issue at T-bar. that's why I'm confused about the dredge layer still being on the beach. I don't think much of it would be left after 6 years....

It's odd that so many discount the dredge, why, because the pump would "shred" the money? it's possible it did just that, and a few got away. I'm just not satisfied with the conclusions. I think a lot of open doors still need to be closed on the dredge.

I also find it odd that sediment samples were taken directly in front of T-bar and are very similar with one of the layers Palmer listed. old school machinery, and styles were used 30 + years ago. we are using old data. back then dredging was a messy form of removing sediments off the bottom of the river. we don't know if a majority of it slid back into the river, or was placed where they never looked.

I'm not sold on the dredge, but I am window shopping  ;D ;D

Tom notes the same thing - massive erosion.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2356 on: December 07, 2016, 05:20:05 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
as far as I can remember, everyone who has a grudge against the Government comes out with the reason. they don't hide the fact, or make it a puzzle leading to a political statement? if he was hijacking the plane for some sort of political reason, he would of stated it.

He seemed sincere about having a grudge?  Not developing it further makes it harder to be traced.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9309
  • Thanked: 1036 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2357 on: December 07, 2016, 05:36:08 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
erosion is a huge issue at T-bar. that's why I'm confused about the dredge layer still being on the beach. I don't think much of it would be left after 6 years....

It's odd that so many discount the dredge, why, because the pump would "shred" the money? it's possible it did just that, and a few got away. I'm just not satisfied with the conclusions. I think a lot of open doors still need to be closed on the dredge.

I also find it odd that sediment samples were taken directly in front of T-bar and are very similar with one of the layers Palmer listed. old school machinery, and styles were used 30 + years ago. we are using old data. back then dredging was a messy form of removing sediments off the bottom of the river. we don't know if a majority of it slid back into the river, or was placed where they never looked.

I'm not sold on the dredge, but I am window shopping  ;D ;D

Tom notes the same thing - massive erosion.

It's well documented about the erosion. a closer look is needed IMO. the Fazio's know it, the city knows it. each year it slowly disappears unless safeguards are put into place with either rocks, or replenishing the beach. I found it hard to believe the dredge layer was so low in the trench.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 05:36:40 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline jason.waterfalls

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2358 on: December 07, 2016, 05:39:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
as far as I can remember, everyone who has a grudge against the Government comes out with the reason. they don't hide the fact, or make it a puzzle leading to a political statement? if he was hijacking the plane for some sort of political reason, he would of stated it.

I just think there was a larger plan, than just the hijacking.  He got away with what he did, and he knew it was a big deal.  He probably laid low for a while, gained some financial freedom, and knew he was scott free.  At that point he wanted to continue his legacy, by planting the money.  If the money was 3 ft deep, then the people that found it, probably knew it was there.  That is alot of luck to find that loot in that spot, at that depth. 
DB planted it, and told some poor people where it was.   I'm sure it was easy for them to keep their mouth shut.  That's forever hush money to them.   Plus, now they cant lie and say they knew where it was all along. 

There is too much there, to just be a coincidence.  I cant believe that more people do not see it that way.  It seems like everyone in the DB community continues to repeat themselves, and forget about the fact that this person had a master plan.  Somehow he failed his master plan, and his failures created this big controversy in debate on what happened?  The guy is out there, and out there alive.  If he isn't, then I will never understand why so many people are obsessed with a guy that died while parachuting with some ransom money.  If you dont think he is alive or got away, then the rest of the story seems pretty irrelevant, since he failed to get away. 

No parachute, no body, nothing, other than some planted money years later, that was found buried 3 ft deep.  Does not make sense, why anyone would think this guy died.  None at all.  They dont even know where he jumped.  He could have easily jumped in the Nevada desert.  They couldnt find anything where they thought he jumped, then why not look somewhere else that he could have also jumped?  Again, it does not make sense.  The FBI tells people what they need to hear, to make themselves look brighter than they really are.  But in this case, they got played, and are clueless, because from the beginning, they were wrong, and it was too late to go back, and look at it in a different way.  They built this story, and could not retract it, because it would make them look completely ridiculous.  They dropped the ball, and could not admit it.  Instead they put some bland information together to make it seem like he died. 
Cooper knew that, and so he planted the money to make sure they knew that.  And put it in a place, that made it impossible for it to get to that location.  That is what is happening.  That is him making sure they know it is retaliation.  Its hard to show your grudge against the government, when you work for the government.  He knew what he needed to know to get the job done.  If he got away with it, then he was okay.  But then he realized how dumb the FBI was, and so he continued to taunt them and make them chase circles.  The FBI knows that.  Of course they wont say it.  But it is clear as day, that is what is going on.  They closed the case because they know that there will be no more evidence.  Something will come up, when the real DB Cooper dies.  Its just a matter of time.  He will not let his legacy die, because the FBI is closing the case.  He will make sure that they know that they have lost this chase.  That is how someone like DB Cooper executes a plan.  They dont just go away.   
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9309
  • Thanked: 1036 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2359 on: December 07, 2016, 05:42:56 PM »
Planting the money would of never guaranteed it would of been found. sending proof through the mail (unlike the letters) would of given positive proof.

planted money just doesn't leave fragments at multiple depths.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9309
  • Thanked: 1036 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2360 on: December 07, 2016, 05:45:00 PM »
can you say for certain that Cooper's master plan couldn't have him losing the money and getting away with his life?
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9309
  • Thanked: 1036 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2361 on: December 07, 2016, 06:16:40 PM »
Quote
No parachute, no body, nothing, other than some planted money years later, that was found buried 3 ft deep.  Does not make sense, why anyone would think this guy died.  None at all.  They dont even know where he jumped.  He could have easily jumped in the Nevada desert.

they have an idea where he jumped. there is no proof he jumped anywhere else but around Battleground. evidence points to Cooper leaving the aircraft somewhere in south Washington.

The money was not found 3 feet deep. fragments of bills were found. this doesn't suggest a plant. the money was found several inches below the surface, and fragments of money were found at depths of 3 feet.

I believe that if Cooper had a plan to include his survival, I don't think planting money would be on the top of his list. do we now imply he planted money is different locations to insure that someone would find it, kind of odd isn't it? if so, nobody has found any, and again why not use a much easier resource of coming forward?

due to the lack of evidence can support he made it, but can also imply they are looking in the wrong location, and they have admitted this. so, can we really say he had a master plan, or was he just another criminal who got lucky, or possibly didn't. it's hard to say.
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Thanked: 35 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2362 on: December 07, 2016, 08:29:02 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
as far as I can remember, everyone who has a grudge against the Government comes out with the reason. they don't hide the fact, or make it a puzzle leading to a political statement? if he was hijacking the plane for some sort of political reason, he would of stated it.

I just think there was a larger plan, than just the hijacking.  He got away with what he did, and he knew it was a big deal.  He probably laid low for a while, gained some financial freedom, and knew he was scott free.  At that point he wanted to continue his legacy, by planting the money.  If the money was 3 ft deep, then the people that found it, probably knew it was there.  That is alot of luck to find that loot in that spot, at that depth. 
DB planted it, and told some poor people where it was.   I'm sure it was easy for them to keep their mouth shut.  That's forever hush money to them.   Plus, now they cant lie and say they knew where it was all along. 

There is too much there, to just be a coincidence.  I cant believe that more people do not see it that way.  It seems like everyone in the DB community continues to repeat themselves, and forget about the fact that this person had a master plan.  Somehow he failed his master plan, and his failures created this big controversy in debate on what happened?  The guy is out there, and out there alive.  If he isn't, then I will never understand why so many people are obsessed with a guy that died while parachuting with some ransom money.  If you dont think he is alive or got away, then the rest of the story seems pretty irrelevant, since he failed to get away. 

No parachute, no body, nothing, other than some planted money years later, that was found buried 3 ft deep.  Does not make sense, why anyone would think this guy died.  None at all.  They dont even know where he jumped.  He could have easily jumped in the Nevada desert.  They couldnt find anything where they thought he jumped, then why not look somewhere else that he could have also jumped?  Again, it does not make sense.  The FBI tells people what they need to hear, to make themselves look brighter than they really are.  But in this case, they got played, and are clueless, because from the beginning, they were wrong, and it was too late to go back, and look at it in a different way.  They built this story, and could not retract it, because it would make them look completely ridiculous.  They dropped the ball, and could not admit it.  Instead they put some bland information together to make it seem like he died. 
Cooper knew that, and so he planted the money to make sure they knew that.  And put it in a place, that made it impossible for it to get to that location.  That is what is happening.  That is him making sure they know it is retaliation.  Its hard to show your grudge against the government, when you work for the government.  He knew what he needed to know to get the job done.  If he got away with it, then he was okay.  But then he realized how dumb the FBI was, and so he continued to taunt them and make them chase circles.  The FBI knows that.  Of course they wont say it.  But it is clear as day, that is what is going on.  They closed the case because they know that there will be no more evidence.  Something will come up, when the real DB Cooper dies.  Its just a matter of time.  He will not let his legacy die, because the FBI is closing the case.  He will make sure that they know that they have lost this chase.  That is how someone like DB Cooper executes a plan.  They dont just go away.

A lot of bold statements there for someone who is clearly lacking a lot of knowledge about the details of the case.
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Thanked: 35 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2363 on: December 07, 2016, 08:35:40 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
erosion is a huge issue at T-bar. that's why I'm confused about the dredge layer still being on the beach. I don't think much of it would be left after 6 years....

It's odd that so many discount the dredge, why, because the pump would "shred" the money? it's possible it did just that, and a few got away. I'm just not satisfied with the conclusions. I think a lot of open doors still need to be closed on the dredge.

I also find it odd that sediment samples were taken directly in front of T-bar and are very similar with one of the layers Palmer listed. old school machinery, and styles were used 30 + years ago. we are using old data. back then dredging was a messy form of removing sediments off the bottom of the river. we don't know if a majority of it slid back into the river, or was placed where they never looked.

I'm not sold on the dredge, but I am window shopping  ;D ;D

I still say the money was planted.  The fact that the money was burnt or eroded around the border.  I feel like that was done on purpose.  Then he planted the money on the border of WA and OR.  Plus it was a specific amount of money left behind, that indicated another clue, that the entire job was in retaliation against the government.  You can play with the numbers to get that answer.  He is just making the story bigger for those chasing him.  The FBI isnt stupid, but he made them look stupid, and they're not going to make themselves look stupid to the public.  That is why they insist he is dead.  But he is very much alive.

Care to elaborate on that part? Ingram found $5,800. Who knows how much more there was in fragments. What was this "specific number" and how was that a clue?
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9309
  • Thanked: 1036 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2364 on: December 08, 2016, 12:15:38 AM »
Quote
They closed the case because they know that there will be no more evidence.

I believe the FBI got tired of everyone telling them what they believe happened. put yourself in there shoes for a moment. over 45 years of people like Jo Weber emailing them 3-4 times a day, floods of people claiming there uncle, or father was Cooper. false lead after false lead, decade after decade? they had to follow up on all of these leads. that's a lot of time and money spent chasing these stories.

then you have people like Robert Blevins claiming they closed the case because the suspect is dead? that's the most absurd thing I've heard yet, but, it could also be an agents opinion, I forgot that little clause  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The Cooper case hasn't been a hot item for some time with the FBI. I think they just got tired of the dead ends. it's all about time, and money now. no profit in chasing Cooper.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2365 on: December 08, 2016, 12:54:18 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
They closed the case because they know that there will be no more evidence.

I believe the FBI got tired of everyone telling them what they believe happened. put yourself in there shoes for a moment. over 45 years of people like Jo Weber emailing them 3-4 times a day, floods of people claiming there uncle, or father was Cooper. false lead after false lead, decade after decade? they had to follow up on all of these leads. that's a lot of time and money spent chasing these stories.

then you have people like Robert Blevins claiming they closed the case because the suspect is dead? that's the most absurd thing I've heard yet, but, it could also be an agents opinion, I forgot that little clause  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The Cooper case hasn't been a hot item for some time with the FBI. I think they just got tired of the dead ends. it's all about time, and money now. no profit in chasing Cooper.

The poll we did here lays out the options - inmho. Dredging, plant, or wash-in. Date uncertain.

Whatever happened, the money can't sit exposed on the surface or it would have been noticed quickly due to the number of people using Tina Bar. So I opt for the idea whatever brought the money also buried it in the same process ... which brings us back to the same options the poll results defined.

The bundles at one depth near the surface and fragments in deeper layers, all within one basic zone, speaks loudly for a dredging scenario which is the only thing that could produce results like that? But, how is Cooper money in or out of a bag sitting on the bottom near Tina Bar to be dredged up at all!?  That is the weakness of the dredging theory that I see -

But I think whatever brings the money also has to bury it from sight very quickly.   

 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9309
  • Thanked: 1036 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2366 on: December 08, 2016, 01:21:42 AM »
explaining pieces at different depths are troubling, but for some reason it wasn't a problem in 1980? the FBI claimed for years that Cooper died. this was the kind of proof they should of worked off of in helping the "Cooper died in the jump' theory, but they didn't?

I can't explain pieces at different depths other than the obvious. how it got there is the prime suspect. the plane crossed the river upstream, and then you have R99's theory that he perished close by. the path could of been in the area, and Cooper lost the money and not his life, I don't know?
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9309
  • Thanked: 1036 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2367 on: December 08, 2016, 08:29:09 AM »
Information can get skewed rather quickly in the Cooper case. Jo Weber has already emailed me asking for an apology? I stated above they she emails the FBI 2 -3 times a day. her response was " JO DID NOT CALL THE FBI 2 AND 3 TIMES A DAY." ?

People sometimes read into things and come to different conclusions without really reading the statements properly. this is how conspiracies sometimes begin.
 

Offline RaoulDuke24

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Thanked: 35 times
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2368 on: December 08, 2016, 09:38:04 AM »
A question regarding the Tena Bar area at the time of the hijacking....

We know the Fazio place was there of course. Does anyone have an accurate idea of how many other residences there were along the Columbia River in that area in 1971? (let's say a few miles in each direction of Tena Bar). I know it can't be many. Was the Fazio property extremely isolated or where there some additional properties up and down the Columbia? 
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2369 on: December 08, 2016, 10:55:29 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A question regarding the Tena Bar area at the time of the hijacking....

We know the Fazio place was there of course. Does anyone have an accurate idea of how many other residences there were along the Columbia River in that area in 1971? (let's say a few miles in each direction of Tena Bar). I know it can't be many. Was the Fazio property extremely isolated or where there some additional properties up and down the Columbia?

The marina in the channel between Caterpillar Island and the east bank of the Columbia River existed in 1971 and some unknown number of people lived there on their boats or maybe in a cabin on either shore.  This is roughly one-half mile upstream from the Tina Bar location where the money was found.