For a wind chill factor, one needs some wind. Can anyone explain to me why so many here persist in claiming there was wind on the stairs when so many skydivers have said that is not the case?

Bruce,

The next time you are in a moving vehicle, roll down all the windows (actually, a convertible would be ideal for this little experiment) and see if you feel anything resembling "wind".

Please report the results of your experiment back here as soon as possible.

I moved this discussion to the flight path......

So before we talk about speculation, let's look at the facts.

In February 1980, $5800 of Cooper's money is found at Tena Bar, with the rubber bands still intact (but fragile).  The bills are deteriorated near the periphery of the stacks.  As Andrade notes:

1) There are no watersheds that could conceivably bring the bills to the Columbia River at Tena Bar
2) No evidence supports the landing zone being wrong
3) Tom Kaye, on his Citizen Sleuths website, and in interviews in other books...., has shown, rather conclusively, that there are no natural means by which the money could have gotten to the Tena Bar in the condition they were in, the location they were in.
4)  The bills were found stacked on top of each other, with the rubber bands still attached
5) The bills were so perfectly aligned, the ink from their serial numbers bled into each other without variation in location
6) To have three stacks of money land on top of each other, somehow bury themselves in the sand on a popular fishing location, in less than a square foot of space, by natural processes alone, beggars belief. They had to have been buried there by human hands (Kaye, again)
7) At least 35 more $20 bills have been identified from the fragments of money found at Tena Bar

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So now we know that there were 3 bundles of money found, along with numerous fragments of money.  The Citizen Sleuths, who seem to have invested a great deal of time and effort into evaluating rubber bands, the way money behaves in water, and the decay process for the money, state that the money had to arrive at Tena Bar within 1 year of the hijacking.  You can read their conclusions at the link below.

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Another piece of evidence comes from the Mountain News, when it is reported that 2 young fishermen find pieces of money on Tena Bar, some up to 100 yards apart from one another, just prior to Brian Ingram's discovery.

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So now I will defer to a quote a few weeks back from Shutter, filed on page 76 of the "Flight Path and Related Issues" thread.

"Sometimes things turn out a lot simpler than we make them out to be"
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 10:51:54 AM by Shutter »

So given all this information on the money find; the well-aligned bills in the stacks, the still-intact rubber bands, their location all within one ft^2, and the lack of support to any natural flow-down theory, what more simple, concise, and logical explanation can we find for this money other than the one where Cooper mistakenly drops four bundles of money here at Tena Bar the night of the hijacking? 

Notice I say four (4) bundles.  We know about the three bundles that are found with the rubber bands still intact.  However, at least 35 other bills have been identified from the fragments.  And some fragments were noticed prior to the money find at distances of 100 yards away. It would seem that the fourth bundle did not fare as well as the other three.  It may have been closer to the surface and its rubber band broke.  These bills, more deteriorated than the others, began to wash away with the water currents and even blow away in the wind.  Thus their fragments were scattered along the beach and ultimately buried from the action of the waves, flooding, and tidal action.

As I have discussed before in this forum, the original drop zone is correct (also supported by the Citizen Sleuths).  Cooper landed safely and was actually seen walking in the Ariel, WA area that night.

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From his landing spot, Cooper walked to his small boat along the Lewis River (just downstream from the Merwin Dam), and escaped via the Lewis River to Tena Bar.  Since it was cold, dark, and rainy when he got to Tena Bar, Cooper mistakenly loses 4 bundles of his cash as he transfers it to his pickup truck.  This lost money is what was found by Brian Ingram in early 1980.

It doesn't get any simpler than that!

So before we talk about speculation, let's look at the facts.

In February 1980, $5800 of Cooper's money is found at Tena Bar, with the rubber bands still intact (but fragile).  The bills are deteriorated near the periphery of the stacks.  As Andrade notes:

1) There are no watersheds that could conceivably bring the bills to the Columbia River at Tena Bar
2) No evidence supports the landing zone being wrong
3) Tom Kaye, on his Citizen Sleuths website, and in interviews in other books...., has shown, rather conclusively, that there are no natural means by which the money could have gotten to the Tena Bar in the condition they were in, the location they were in.
4)  The bills were found stacked on top of each other, with the rubber bands still attached
5) The bills were so perfectly aligned, the ink from their serial numbers bled into each other without variation in location
6) To have three stacks of money land on top of each other, somehow bury themselves in the sand on a popular fishing location, in less than a square foot of space, by natural processes alone, beggars belief. They had to have been buried there by human hands (Kaye, again)
7) At least 35 more $20 bills have been identified from the fragments of money found at Tena Bar

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

So now we know that there were 3 bundles of money found, along with numerous fragments of money.  The Citizen Sleuths, who seem to have invested a great deal of time and effort into evaluating rubber bands, the way money behaves in water, and the decay process for the money, state that the money had to arrive at Tena Bar within 1 year of the hijacking.  You can read their conclusions at the link below.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Another piece of evidence comes from the Mountain News, when it is reported that 2 young fishermen find pieces of money on Tena Bar, some up to 100 yards apart from one another, just prior to Brian Ingram's discovery.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

So now I will defer to a quote a few weeks back from Shutter, filed on page 76 of the "Flight Path and Related Issues" thread.

"Sometimes things turn out a lot simpler than we make them out to be"
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 10:51:54 AM by Shutter »

So given all this information on the money find; the well-aligned bills in the stacks, the still-intact rubber bands, their location all within one ft^2, and the lack of support to any natural flow-down theory, what more simple, concise, and logical explanation can we find for this money other than the one where Cooper mistakenly drops four bundles of money here at Tena Bar the night of the hijacking? 

Notice I say four (4) bundles.  We know about the three bundles that are found with the rubber bands still intact.  However, at least 35 other bills have been identified from the fragments.  And some fragments were noticed prior to the money find at distances of 100 yards away. It would seem that the fourth bundle did not fare as well as the other three.  It may have been closer to the surface and its rubber band broke.  These bills, more deteriorated than the others, began to wash away with the water currents and even blow away in the wind.  Thus their fragments were scattered along the beach and ultimately buried from the action of the waves, flooding, and tidal action.

As I have discussed before in this forum, the original drop zone is correct (also supported by the Citizen Sleuths).  Cooper landed safely and was actually seen walking in the Ariel, WA area that night.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

From his landing spot, Cooper walked to his small boat along the Lewis River (just downstream from the Merwin Dam), and escaped via the Lewis River to Tena Bar.  Since it was cold, dark, and rainy when he got to Tena Bar, Cooper mistakenly loses 4 bundles of his cash as he transfers it to his pickup truck.  This lost money is what was found by Brian Ingram in early 1980.

It doesn't get any simpler than that!

I stopped reading your post at this: In February 1980, $5800 of Cooper's money is found at Tena Bar, with the rubber bands still intact (but fragile).  The bills are deteriorated near the periphery of the stacks

Until you get a grasp of the bare bones facts, your conjectures are pointless. Like so many people, you wish to invoke your own facts - even after years of various people citing/discussing THE FACTS. Oh well.

Good luck.

 

Mr Rollins claims Cooper used a camper parked at Tina Bar and two boats (one an inflatable Zodiak) to motor back and forth between the Lewis River, Merwin Lake, Portland, and Tina Bar ... to conduct his hijacking. Then upon returning to Tena Bar in his aluminum motor boat (?) Cooper was loading the boat back on a trailer and stuffing things back in his camper truck and 'thats when Cooper lost 3-4 bundles of the money on the beach at Tina Bar, and left the scene.

This means that Cooper money in bundles sat on Tina Bar from Nov 24/25 until the next high water period at Tina Bar. That next high water period was in January 1972 (approx 15-16 ft Vancouver stage). Nobody noticed the money during that period of time and the January 1972 flooding at Tina Bar covered the money with sediment due to high water. By 1980 when the money is next seen approx 3 bundles are just below the surface and fragments are as deep as 3-4 feet presumably matching the same level as when originally deposited by Cooper in November of 1971.

Thus, the bundles Ingram found has percolated up somehow from their original resting place in a lower stratum, since Nov 24 1971. 

Think about it!   
 

G wrote: "Thus, the bundles Ingram found has percolated up somehow from their original resting place in a lower stratum, since Nov 24 1971."

Trickle Up Economics Georger. Well known phenomena. 

377

And that is *specifically what Palmer said (officially) - could not happen. Baring a seismic event or shift in layers the only way for something to 'come up' to appear on the surface is for top layers to erode away, which is probably what happened at Tina Bar. Tom even thinks that. And we all know erosion at T_Bar was substantial during all of the high water events already noted ... Tom documents the amount of shoreline erosion on his website.

The idea that money bundles laid around exposed for weeks or months without somebody noticing is hard to swallow -

     

erosion is a huge issue at T-bar. that's why I'm confused about the dredge layer still being on the beach. I don't think much of it would be left after 6 years....

It's odd that so many discount the dredge, why, because the pump would "shred" the money? it's possible it did just that, and a few got away. I'm just not satisfied with the conclusions. I think a lot of open doors still need to be closed on the dredge.

I also find it odd that sediment samples were taken directly in front of T-bar and are very similar with one of the layers Palmer listed. old school machinery, and styles were used 30 + years ago. we are using old data. back then dredging was a messy form of removing sediments off the bottom of the river. we don't know if a majority of it slid back into the river, or was placed where they never looked.

I'm not sold on the dredge, but I am window shopping 

I still say the money was planted.  The fact that the money was burnt or eroded around the border.  I feel like that was done on purpose.  Then he planted the money on the border of WA and OR.  Plus it was a specific amount of money left behind, that indicated another clue, that the entire job was in retaliation against the government.  You can play with the numbers to get that answer.  He is just making the story bigger for those chasing him.  The FBI isnt stupid, but he made them look stupid, and they're not going to make themselves look stupid to the public.  That is why they insist he is dead.  But he is very much alive.

as far as I can remember, everyone who has a grudge against the Government comes out with the reason. they don't hide the fact, or make it a puzzle leading to a political statement? if he was hijacking the plane for some sort of political reason, he would of stated it.