Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1842185 times)

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2295 on: August 25, 2016, 12:26:36 PM »
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Statement from Galen Cook:


"My science team is paid by me.  The lab costs are paid by me.  The findings are proprietary.  If Georger, or anyone, wants to pony up costs, let me know,  and I may divulge.  Otherwise,  'go pay for your own science team.  Go to Tena's Bar and do some real work and investigation of your own.  Most of the armchair crowd have never even been to TB.'"

GC


Makes me really appreciate Tom, Al and Carol's open source Science Team. They have spent money too, but they freely share their results.

Galen is certainly within his rights to keep what he paid for to himself. It just makes me grateful for the generous spirit of the TK team.

377
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2296 on: August 25, 2016, 01:40:31 PM »
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Statement from Galen Cook:


"My science team is paid by me.  The lab costs are paid by me.  The findings are proprietary.  If Georger, or anyone, wants to pony up costs, let me know,  and I may divulge.  Otherwise,  'go pay for your own science team.  Go to Tena's Bar and do some real work and investigation of your own.  Most of the armchair crowd have never even been to TB.'"

GC


Makes me really appreciate Tom, Al and Carol's open source Science Team. They have spent money too, but they freely share their results.

Galen is certainly within his rights to keep what he paid for to himself. It just makes me grateful for the generous spirit of the TK team.

377

I hope Sluggo is reading this! What goes around comes around - ey Sluggo!  :))  Sluggo and I discussed this specific issue years ago and came to some conclusions based on past performance. Who knows what Galen has, that others don't have. Galen has never been hesitant to ask others 'what do you have' ("Let's compare notes") while hiding his own light under a bushel.

... and of course anyone is free to just 'make stuff up'.

To be sure, Galen has had a few things he shared through the years that others did not know about, but Galen has also engaged in some 'polishing of the facts' himself, and engaged in outright deception blatantly making a few things up and he was caught. He left or was forced off of Dropzone.  He left or was forced off here for dirty tricks.
He does appear on radio talk shows (Coast To Coast etc). Galen has been the subject of attacks, as from Blevins claiming deception. But Galen has launched a few feuds of his own which had little merit.

The Galen I know has a good head on his shoulders and he does have information others do not have, but he also had a rather large Ego. he is frustrated like everyone else, he has had meetings with Eng and FBI agents, he was a close friend of Tosaws and inherited some of Tosaw's files, Galen is strategically positioned to investigate the Cooper saga, he once did claim he thought he knew who DB Cooper was, and yes Galen had perused the scientific side of the money find and a few other related things, he has mentored Smith, he pursued Tina shamelessly just as Smith has, etc etc etc ...

But, the problem with hiding lights under bushels is if the light gets too bright and hot, it usually burns up the basket for all to see - and so far except for his tricks backfiring for all to see, Galen has produced no hot luminous facts about anything in the DB Cooper case. The Smith-Cook vortex is full of smoke and mirrors with no shortage of publicity and ballyhoo!

Quite often it has been a soup made from the shadow of a crow that starved to death, clear back in November 1971.

And the corpse of the crow is still under the basket! Waiting for all to see. It's a pretty shabby affair as things go.

So who is kidding whoom here! ?   :))


       
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2297 on: August 25, 2016, 02:25:53 PM »
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Statement from Galen Cook:


"My science team is paid by me.  The lab costs are paid by me.  The findings are proprietary.  If Georger, or anyone, wants to pony up costs, let me know,  and I may divulge.  Otherwise,  'go pay for your own science team.  Go to Tena's Bar and do some real work and investigation of your own.  Most of the armchair crowd have never even been to TB.'"

GC


Makes me really appreciate Tom, Al and Carol's open source Science Team. They have spent money too, but they freely share their results.

Galen is certainly within his rights to keep what he paid for to himself. It just makes me grateful for the generous spirit of the TK team.

377

I hope Sluggo is reading this! What goes around comes around - ey Sluggo!  :))  Sluggo and I discussed this specific issue years ago and came to some conclusions based on past performance. Who knows what Galen has, that others don't have. Galen has never been hesitant to ask others 'what do you have' ("Let's compare notes") while hiding his own light under a bushel.

... and of course anyone is free to just 'make stuff up'.

To be sure, Galen has had a few things he shared through the years that others did not know about, but Galen has also engaged in some 'polishing of the facts' himself, and engaged in outright deception blatantly making a few things up and he was caught. He left or was forced off of Dropzone.  He left or was forced off here for dirty tricks.
He does appear on radio talk shows (Coast To Coast etc). Galen has been the subject of attacks, as from Blevins claiming deception. But Galen has launched a few feuds of his own which had little merit.

The Galen I know has a good head on his shoulders and he does have information others do not have, but he also had a rather large Ego. he is frustrated like everyone else, he has had meetings with Eng and FBI agents, he was a close friend of Tosaws and inherited some of Tosaw's files, Galen is strategically positioned to investigate the Cooper saga, he once did claim he thought he knew who DB Cooper was, and yes Galen had perused the scientific side of the money find and a few other related things, he has mentored Smith, he pursued Tina shamelessly just as Smith has, etc etc etc ...

But, the problem with hiding lights under bushels is if the light gets too bright and hot, it usually burns up the basket for all to see - and so far except for his tricks backfiring for all to see, Galen has produced no hot luminous facts about anything in the DB Cooper case. The Smith-Cook vortex is full of smoke and mirrors with no shortage of publicity and ballyhoo!

Quite often it has been a soup made from the shadow of a crow that starved to death, clear back in November 1971.

And the corpse of the crow is still under the basket! Waiting for all to see. It's a pretty shabby affair as things go.

So who is kidding whoom here! ?   :))


     

That's a very good summary. 

I thought Galen could be a good source of information here, but he seems very reluctant to talk about anything.  I don't think he'd even say Gossett was his suspect on here.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2298 on: September 06, 2016, 12:21:33 AM »
Reply to Robert99 ...

Is this one of the map images you are talking about? It is a 2008 Google image at 500 foot scale.

The problem R99 is these images are about 350mb each and larger! - no way I can send via email to an i-phone! I would have to put these up on an ftp site for you or Amanda to download. Im not sure I want to do that ? 

What do you think? Amanda if you have any bright ideas about this just email me ...

G

ps: let me discuss this with our IT Dept tomorrow - we might give you access to an ftp site where I could put these for you to download but I wont know until I talk with someone tomorrow... also, note the dead area in the middle of the one image ... these images may not be what you need?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 12:28:10 AM by georger »
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2299 on: September 09, 2016, 05:24:05 AM »
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Statement from Galen Cook:


"My science team is paid by me.  The lab costs are paid by me.  The findings are proprietary.  If Georger, or anyone, wants to pony up costs, let me know,  and I may divulge.  Otherwise,  'go pay for your own science team.  Go to Tena's Bar and do some real work and investigation of your own.  Most of the armchair crowd have never even been to TB.'"

GC


Makes me really appreciate Tom, Al and Carol's open source Science Team. They have spent money too, but they freely share their results.

Galen is certainly within his rights to keep what he paid for to himself. It just makes me grateful for the generous spirit of the TK team.

377

I hope Sluggo is reading this! What goes around comes around - ey Sluggo!  :))  Sluggo and I discussed this specific issue years ago and came to some conclusions based on past performance. Who knows what Galen has, that others don't have. Galen has never been hesitant to ask others 'what do you have' ("Let's compare notes") while hiding his own light under a bushel.

... and of course anyone is free to just 'make stuff up'.

To be sure, Galen has had a few things he shared through the years that others did not know about, but Galen has also engaged in some 'polishing of the facts' himself, and engaged in outright deception blatantly making a few things up and he was caught. He left or was forced off of Dropzone.  He left or was forced off here for dirty tricks.
He does appear on radio talk shows (Coast To Coast etc). Galen has been the subject of attacks, as from Blevins claiming deception. But Galen has launched a few feuds of his own which had little merit.

The Galen I know has a good head on his shoulders and he does have information others do not have, but he also had a rather large Ego. he is frustrated like everyone else, he has had meetings with Eng and FBI agents, he was a close friend of Tosaws and inherited some of Tosaw's files, Galen is strategically positioned to investigate the Cooper saga, he once did claim he thought he knew who DB Cooper was, and yes Galen had perused the scientific side of the money find and a few other related things, he has mentored Smith, he pursued Tina shamelessly just as Smith has, etc etc etc ...

But, the problem with hiding lights under bushels is if the light gets too bright and hot, it usually burns up the basket for all to see - and so far except for his tricks backfiring for all to see, Galen has produced no hot luminous facts about anything in the DB Cooper case. The Smith-Cook vortex is full of smoke and mirrors with no shortage of publicity and ballyhoo!

Quite often it has been a soup made from the shadow of a crow that starved to death, clear back in November 1971.

And the corpse of the crow is still under the basket! Waiting for all to see. It's a pretty shabby affair as things go.

So who is kidding whoom here! ?   :))


     

That's a very good summary. 

I thought Galen could be a good source of information here, but he seems very reluctant to talk about anything.  I don't think he'd even say Gossett was his suspect on here.

I have to agree with you Georger and 377, Galen has not produced much, in spite of all the time, money, and effort he spent at Tina Bar.  He was unwilling to collaborate and share, like others have been willing to do.  That's a shame -- too bad.  And there was misinformation along the way as well.  Guess Galen thought he had it all figured out -- all by himself.  Yet, he got sucked into the Cooper vortex, just like everyone else.  What goes around comes around, I guess.
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2300 on: September 09, 2016, 06:18:41 AM »
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Posting this here bcause its related to the money find ...

R99 speaks of 305 possibly passing within 1000 ft of Tina Bar such that Cooper money might have washed on to Tina Bar from this area. Here is a chart showing the drainage area adjacent to Tina Bar, marked off in 2000 foot segments ... out to 8000 feet from a point midway between Caterpillar Island and TBar.

Georger, Let me point out again that the NW Lower River Road is built on top of a levee that is about 4 or 5 feet higher than the land east of it.

This results in everything EAST of that road draining into Vancouver Lake and down the Lake River to enter the Columbia River about 15 or 20 miles downstream of Tina Bar.

Consequently, the drainage from WEST of that road only has to go from about 100 feet at the southern end of Caterpillar Island to about 1000 feet at the money find location area until it is in the Columbia River.

The drainage area is very, very small.  Probably a lot less than one-half of a square mile.

R99:

I was perplexed by something during the entire Travel Channel shoot at Tina Bar.  I carefully studied the maps you brought.  It seemed like we were going to come into wooded area fairly quickly as we proceeded north from Fazio's sand fill to Catepillar Island.  That didn't happen.  One  of the camera guys used my smart phone to pull up a Google Earth map of your dropzone, and it looked like quite an area of trees may have been clearcut here.  From your maps, I was expecting more trees and briar patches a lot sooner.  That didn't happen.  In fact, we would have had to walk on the beach of the Columbia River for quite a ways north before getting to any wooded area.  I'm wondering if that area got clearcut -- to make more room for Fazio's sandfill.  Is that even a possibility?  If it did get cleared out, then a part of the search area would have been compromised in terms of finding evidence.  That area would be under sand now.  I may have been worrying needlessly about this matter -- geography along the Columbia changes all the time, but it seemed to me that the maps we had and the geographic layout of our search area just didn't jive.  What do you think? 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2301 on: September 09, 2016, 06:47:49 AM »
I strongly believe Tom Kaye was in the wrong area when he returned to Tina Bar. I believe Tom, and his coords are further south from the actual money location....
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2302 on: September 09, 2016, 03:50:49 PM »
Along those lines, R99 placed us and the TC crew far to the north of the traditional money find location - about 100 yards. As I understood him, R99 said that he was triangulating off of FBI maps using background piers on the Oregon side as reference points.

Note: Meyer, I believe you meant to say "south" and not "as we proceeded north from Fazio's sand pit to Caterpillar Island..."
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 03:53:21 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2303 on: September 09, 2016, 04:02:18 PM »
Meyer says:
I have to agree with you Georger and 377, Galen has not produced much, in spite of all the time, money, and effort he spent at Tina Bar.  He was unwilling to collaborate and share, like others have been willing to do.  That's a shame -- too bad.  And there was misinformation along the way as well.  Guess Galen thought he had it all figured out -- all by himself.  Yet, he got sucked into the Cooper vortex, just like everyone else.  What goes around comes around, I guess.

BAS says:

I believe that a brief defense of Galen Cook may be in order. He's been working the case for over two decades and has spent an estimated $50K in his research during that time. He currently has hydrologists and scientist in his employ, yet he is relatively inactive in the Norjak search at this time. Here are some of the reasons why:

One reason is that he is busy with his law practice and replenishing his finances. He has ventured into medical malpractice and is finding it very time consuming.

Further, on a personal note, I believe that Galen is in the process of re-evaluating his role in the Norjak investigation. I think he always felt he needed to solve the case - find and identify DB Cooper. Certainly Wolfgang Gossett has been his primary interest of late, but I think that focus may be fading a bit. Hence, Galen has a Rubicon to cross. I think he has to find a new reason to research Norjak, and ultimately, find a new passion to write.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 04:04:37 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2304 on: September 09, 2016, 05:32:53 PM »
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377
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2305 on: September 10, 2016, 02:59:22 AM »
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Bruce, Galen Cook said:  " Most of the armchair crowd have never even been to TB."

I say: "Who cares what is still at Tina's Bar" The real story is "why is Curtis Eng closing the DB Cooper case? Why the Spin (lie) cover story from Eng?  Was Sheridan CIA like he called all the ex-Smoke Jumpers in his interview in the History Channel 4 hr program, remember." he is an ex-Smoke Jumper too!!!"

Bob Sailshaw
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I think R99 cares about what is at Tina Bar (correct spelling by the way -- not Tena Bar, not Tena's Bar, not Tina's Bar).  After spending time looking carefully at R99's theory and dropzone, I have a new respect for his theory's depth and elegance.  We spent lots of time the night before the Travel Channel shoot studying the particulars.  More time needs to be spent searching his dropzone, Travel Channel/Expedition Unknown was only a starting point.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2306 on: September 10, 2016, 12:46:07 PM »
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Bruce, Galen Cook said:  " Most of the armchair crowd have never even been to TB."

I say: "Who cares what is still at Tina's Bar" The real story is "why is Curtis Eng closing the DB Cooper case? Why the Spin (lie) cover story from Eng?  Was Sheridan CIA like he called all the ex-Smoke Jumpers in his interview in the History Channel 4 hr program, remember." he is an ex-Smoke Jumper too!!!"

Bob Sailshaw
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I think R99 cares about what is at Tina Bar (correct spelling by the way -- not Tena Bar, not Tena's Bar, not Tina's Bar).  After spending time looking carefully at R99's theory and dropzone, I have a new respect for his theory's depth and elegance.  We spent lots of time the night before the Travel Channel shoot studying the particulars.  More time needs to be spent searching his dropzone, Travel Channel/Expedition Unknown was only a starting point.

Agree totally.  :)

Does anyone really have to list all of the reasons why? Those reasons have been articulated now for years! Even SA Carr was curious whether the timeline of the drop could be changed and moved south, or not (on the standard model FBI-NWA Lacenter Search Map).

Something has to account for the money at Tina Bar. Either Cooper bailed north of Vancouver and walked the money down closer to the Columbia drainage area, or, Cooper bailed with the money closer to Columbia than previously known.

There is an additional justification for being curious! It is now 2016. The crime was in 1971. Technology has changed in the meantime. A modern examination of the 'old' evidence is justified on many grounds. The tools today are more discriminating than what was available in 1971. There are lots of lose ends that need to be tied up from the former era using modern technology and methodology. This bares directly on the question of who Cooper was and what actually happened after Cooper jumped from the plane. The Cooper money and the flight path are intrinsic parts of that story.
   
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 01:14:34 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2307 on: September 10, 2016, 09:58:04 PM »
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Posting this here bcause its related to the money find ...

R99 speaks of 305 possibly passing within 1000 ft of Tina Bar such that Cooper money might have washed on to Tina Bar from this area. Here is a chart showing the drainage area adjacent to Tina Bar, marked off in 2000 foot segments ... out to 8000 feet from a point midway between Caterpillar Island and TBar.

Georger, Let me point out again that the NW Lower River Road is built on top of a levee that is about 4 or 5 feet higher than the land east of it.

This results in everything EAST of that road draining into Vancouver Lake and down the Lake River to enter the Columbia River about 15 or 20 miles downstream of Tina Bar.

Consequently, the drainage from WEST of that road only has to go from about 100 feet at the southern end of Caterpillar Island to about 1000 feet at the money find location area until it is in the Columbia River.

The drainage area is very, very small.  Probably a lot less than one-half of a square mile.

R99:

I was perplexed by something during the entire Travel Channel shoot at Tina Bar.  I carefully studied the maps you brought.  It seemed like we were going to come into wooded area fairly quickly as we proceeded north from Fazio's sand fill to Catepillar Island.  That didn't happen.  One  of the camera guys used my smart phone to pull up a Google Earth map of your dropzone, and it looked like quite an area of trees may have been clearcut here.  From your maps, I was expecting more trees and briar patches a lot sooner.  That didn't happen.  In fact, we would have had to walk on the beach of the Columbia River for quite a ways north before getting to any wooded area.  I'm wondering if that area got clearcut -- to make more room for Fazio's sandfill.  Is that even a possibility?  If it did get cleared out, then a part of the search area would have been compromised in terms of finding evidence.  That area would be under sand now.  I may have been worrying needlessly about this matter -- geography along the Columbia changes all the time, but it seemed to me that the maps we had and the geographic layout of our search area just didn't jive.  What do you think?

Meyer, those maps (other than the Seattle FAA Sectional Chart) were actually pictures such as Georger has attached in reply #2298 above.  And remember that we were moving south (upstream) rather than north (downstream).  I don't know the date of the pictures that Georger has but there were definitely differences in the vegetation and trees throughout that area.  In fact there were plenty of differences between our visit there in July 2013 and this August 2016 visit.  And that sand along the shore of the river is changing all the time as you point out.
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2308 on: September 10, 2016, 10:13:32 PM »
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Along those lines, R99 placed us and the TC crew far to the north of the traditional money find location - about 100 yards. As I understood him, R99 said that he was triangulating off of FBI maps using background piers on the Oregon side as reference points.

Note: Meyer, I believe you meant to say "south" and not "as we proceeded north from Fazio's sand pit to Caterpillar Island..."

Bruce, we were never 100 yards north of the Tina Bar gate.  The only triangulating I did was with my hand-held GPS and a 3 by 5 card on which I had written Tom Kaye's GPS coordinates.  For the camera shoot, we then moved about 10 yards further north to get in a clear area and out of some shadows.  We were never north of the north end of the dairy containment pit.

There is in fact a pier on the Oregon side of the river that I think I can locate in the background of one of the pictures of the FBI agents digging.  I also think that I can identify that same pier in the printed version of the topographical chart for the Tina Bar area.  Meyer has that chart from our 2013 visit at Tina Bar, but it was in storage at his former residence and not available this time. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 10:16:08 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2309 on: September 10, 2016, 10:36:13 PM »
Okay, maybe not 100 yards, but we were some distance. What would you estimate? 150 feet?