Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1842117 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2220 on: August 02, 2016, 04:32:22 PM »
Quote
Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))
 
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Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2221 on: August 02, 2016, 05:22:11 PM »
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Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))

Hold everything here!  Everybody take a deep breath and take a look at a map of Washington State.

First, Castle Rock, WA, is at Interstate 5 Mile Post 49 which means it is 49 miles north of the point where I-5 crosses the Columbia River on the west side of Vancouver, WA.  The "Castle Rock" on the original map is apparently actually "Cascade Locks" at Bonneville Dam which is about 30 or 40 miles east of Portland, OR.

As I understand it, the "Amboy chute" was found near the town of Amboy, WA and not 35 miles further north, and not north of Mt. St. Helens either.

I have no idea where the "1970 Search Area" came from, or what was being looked for at that location. ::)
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2222 on: August 02, 2016, 05:24:50 PM »
It was meant as a Joke R99...that's why I put the multiple happy faces on there... also take note of the direction east, west etc. it was intentional....basically, making fun of the map itself...
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2223 on: August 02, 2016, 05:29:00 PM »
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It was meant as a Joke R99...that's why I put the multiple happy faces on there... also take note of the direction east, west etc. it was intentional....basically, making fun of the map itself...

Understood.  But someone will probably be quoting this as a Divine Revelation from On High by the end of the week. :)
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2224 on: August 02, 2016, 05:36:36 PM »
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Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))

Hold everything here!  Everybody take a deep breath and take a look at a map of Washington State.

First, Castle Rock, WA, is at Interstate 5 Mile Post 49 which means it is 49 miles north of the point where I-5 crosses the Columbia River on the west side of Vancouver, WA.  The "Castle Rock" on the original map is apparently actually "Cascade Locks" at Bonneville Dam which is about 30 or 40 miles east of Portland, OR.

As I understand it, the "Amboy chute" was found near the town of Amboy, WA and not 35 miles further north, and not north of Mt. St. Helens either.

I have no idea where the "1970 Search Area" came from, or what was being looked for at that location. ::)

The placard was not found at "Castle Rock" or "Cascade Locks", in any event.

This reminds me of another media error  - pic below from 1980. Note their location of Tena Bar.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 05:37:52 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2225 on: August 02, 2016, 05:42:14 PM »
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Quote
Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))

Hold everything here!  Everybody take a deep breath and take a look at a map of Washington State.

First, Castle Rock, WA, is at Interstate 5 Mile Post 49 which means it is 49 miles north of the point where I-5 crosses the Columbia River on the west side of Vancouver, WA.  The "Castle Rock" on the original map is apparently actually "Cascade Locks" at Bonneville Dam which is about 30 or 40 miles east of Portland, OR.

As I understand it, the "Amboy chute" was found near the town of Amboy, WA and not 35 miles further north, and not north of Mt. St. Helens either.

I have no idea where the "1970 Search Area" came from, or what was being looked for at that location. ::)

The placard was not found at "Castle Rock" or "Cascade Locks", in any event.

This reminds me of another media error  - pic below from 1980. Note their location of Tena Bar.

I lived in Washington State as a very young boy and was a Boy Scout.  When I was there, Boy Scouts knew how to read maps, tie knots, and help old ladies across the street.  It looks like things have gone down hill from that era.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2226 on: August 02, 2016, 11:17:35 PM »
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Quote
Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))

Hold everything here!  Everybody take a deep breath and take a look at a map of Washington State.

First, Castle Rock, WA, is at Interstate 5 Mile Post 49 which means it is 49 miles north of the point where I-5 crosses the Columbia River on the west side of Vancouver, WA.  The "Castle Rock" on the original map is apparently actually "Cascade Locks" at Bonneville Dam which is about 30 or 40 miles east of Portland, OR.

As I understand it, the "Amboy chute" was found near the town of Amboy, WA and not 35 miles further north, and not north of Mt. St. Helens either.

I have no idea where the "1970 Search Area" came from, or what was being looked for at that location. ::)

The placard was not found at "Castle Rock" or "Cascade Locks", in any event.

This reminds me of another media error  - pic below from 1980. Note their location of Tena Bar.

I lived in Washington State as a very young boy and was a Boy Scout.  When I was there, Boy Scouts knew how to read maps, tie knots, and help old ladies across the street.  It looks like things have gone down hill from that era.

Thats why there is something called honors classes - and competition for them is higher than ever and overflowing, I am glad to report. Kids qualified in every sense of the word and more. This makes it tough for the kids at the bottom.

While I have you, whats the highest elevation on Tena Bar you know of and where is it? Would you agree the elevation behind the fence line is roughly 20ft, and was that the case in 1980 ?
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 11:20:32 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2227 on: August 03, 2016, 12:54:47 AM »
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Quote
Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))

Hold everything here!  Everybody take a deep breath and take a look at a map of Washington State.

First, Castle Rock, WA, is at Interstate 5 Mile Post 49 which means it is 49 miles north of the point where I-5 crosses the Columbia River on the west side of Vancouver, WA.  The "Castle Rock" on the original map is apparently actually "Cascade Locks" at Bonneville Dam which is about 30 or 40 miles east of Portland, OR.

As I understand it, the "Amboy chute" was found near the town of Amboy, WA and not 35 miles further north, and not north of Mt. St. Helens either.

I have no idea where the "1970 Search Area" came from, or what was being looked for at that location. ::)

The placard was not found at "Castle Rock" or "Cascade Locks", in any event.

This reminds me of another media error  - pic below from 1980. Note their location of Tena Bar.

I lived in Washington State as a very young boy and was a Boy Scout.  When I was there, Boy Scouts knew how to read maps, tie knots, and help old ladies across the street.  It looks like things have gone down hill from that era.

Thats why there is something called honors classes - and competition for them is higher than ever and overflowing, I am glad to report. Kids qualified in every sense of the word and more. This makes it tough for the kids at the bottom.

While I have you, whats the highest elevation on Tena Bar you know of and where is it? Would you agree the elevation behind the fence line is roughly 20ft, and was that the case in 1980 ?

There is apparently no accurate data for the elevations (or contour lines) at Tina Bar since those lines are generally machine drawn on maps and are basically just estimates.  And the contour interval there is 10 feet which means there probably won't be more than two lines anyway.

But we won't quit on the problem.  When Meyer Louie and I was there in 2013, we talked to a fisherman named "Jon" who had the key to the Tina Bar gate and who told us that he had basically been at Tina Bar on a daily basis for about the last 50 years.

Jon pointed out a log (or railroad tie) that was about 10 or 15 feet north of the Tina Bar gate and on the fence line.  Jon said that the log represented the highest river water level he had ever seen at Tina Bar.  He also specifically stated that he had never seen any river water flow into the dairy pond on the east side of that fence and nothing flowing from the pond into the river.

My eyeball guess was that the log in question was about 15 to 20 feet above sea level.  And let me emphasize the word "guess".  There was nothing to measure it by and I did not know what the river water level was referred to sea level.  But the log was about 2 feet (this is an accurate estimate) below the top of the bank separating the river from the pond and, again, it was right on the fence line.

From what I have seen of the Tina Bar area, including Shutter's recent photos, today's fence line is the same one that was there in 1980.  So I would agree that the fence line, specifically the top of that embankment, was very close to 20 feet above sea level.

Recently, I think I saw in some article that the ground elevations near Tina Bar went up to about 40 feet at the highest point, but that point was not identified.  Frankly, I doubt that is correct unless the writer was referring to the top of the Fazio's sand pile.  Basically, I would estimate that most of the Fazio's property is between about 20 and 25 feet, or less, above sea level and perhaps up to 30 feet above sea level on the river bank about 200 or 300 feet north of Tom Kaye's money find location.

But in the area of the Tina Bar gate, an estimate of 20 feet above sea level is as accurate as you can get until someone determines the elevation of the river water level and then, using a transit or similar instrument, determines the actual height of the fence line and the embankment where it is located. 
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2228 on: August 03, 2016, 01:43:16 AM »
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Quote
Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))

Hold everything here!  Everybody take a deep breath and take a look at a map of Washington State.

First, Castle Rock, WA, is at Interstate 5 Mile Post 49 which means it is 49 miles north of the point where I-5 crosses the Columbia River on the west side of Vancouver, WA.  The "Castle Rock" on the original map is apparently actually "Cascade Locks" at Bonneville Dam which is about 30 or 40 miles east of Portland, OR.

As I understand it, the "Amboy chute" was found near the town of Amboy, WA and not 35 miles further north, and not north of Mt. St. Helens either.

I have no idea where the "1970 Search Area" came from, or what was being looked for at that location. ::)

The placard was not found at "Castle Rock" or "Cascade Locks", in any event.

This reminds me of another media error  - pic below from 1980. Note their location of Tena Bar.

I lived in Washington State as a very young boy and was a Boy Scout.  When I was there, Boy Scouts knew how to read maps, tie knots, and help old ladies across the street.  It looks like things have gone down hill from that era.

Thats why there is something called honors classes - and competition for them is higher than ever and overflowing, I am glad to report. Kids qualified in every sense of the word and more. This makes it tough for the kids at the bottom.

While I have you, whats the highest elevation on Tena Bar you know of and where is it? Would you agree the elevation behind the fence line is roughly 20ft, and was that the case in 1980 ?

There is apparently no accurate data for the elevations (or contour lines) at Tina Bar since those lines are generally machine drawn on maps and are basically just estimates.  And the contour interval there is 10 feet which means there probably won't be more than two lines anyway.

But we won't quit on the problem.  When Meyer Louie and I was there in 2013, we talked to a fisherman named "Jon" who had the key to the Tina Bar gate and who told us that he had basically been at Tina Bar on a daily basis for about the last 50 years.

Jon pointed out a log (or railroad tie) that was about 10 or 15 feet north of the Tina Bar gate and on the fence line.  Jon said that the log represented the highest river water level he had ever seen at Tina Bar.  He also specifically stated that he had never seen any river water flow into the dairy pond on the east side of that fence and nothing flowing from the pond into the river.

My eyeball guess was that the log in question was about 15 to 20 feet above sea level.  And let me emphasize the word "guess".  There was nothing to measure it by and I did not know what the river water level was referred to sea level.  But the log was about 2 feet (this is an accurate estimate) below the top of the bank separating the river from the pond and, again, it was right on the fence line.

From what I have seen of the Tina Bar area, including Shutter's recent photos, today's fence line is the same one that was there in 1980.  So I would agree that the fence line, specifically the top of that embankment, was very close to 20 feet above sea level.

Recently, I think I saw in some article that the ground elevations near Tina Bar went up to about 40 feet at the highest point, but that point was not identified.  Frankly, I doubt that is correct unless the writer was referring to the top of the Fazio's sand pile.  Basically, I would estimate that most of the Fazio's property is between about 20 and 25 feet, or less, above sea level and perhaps up to 30 feet above sea level on the river bank about 200 or 300 feet north of Tom Kaye's money find location.

But in the area of the Tina Bar gate, an estimate of 20 feet above sea level is as accurate as you can get until someone determines the elevation of the river water level and then, using a transit or similar instrument, determines the actual height of the fence line and the embankment where it is located.

This agrees with everything I have. Thanks Robert.
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2229 on: August 03, 2016, 04:21:14 PM »
Tina Bar area in 1896 !
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2230 on: August 03, 2016, 08:06:43 PM »
Whoa - that's a time when Injuns still were livin' around here!
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2231 on: August 04, 2016, 04:20:40 PM »
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Quote
Well the article is funny - because it's stupid tripe!  :))  Note where this guy has the placard being found! On the Columbia River! The guy needs to go back and repeat Coopergarten.


I fixed the map so the guy doesn't look so bad  :)) :)) :)) :))

Hold everything here!  Everybody take a deep breath and take a look at a map of Washington State.

First, Castle Rock, WA, is at Interstate 5 Mile Post 49 which means it is 49 miles north of the point where I-5 crosses the Columbia River on the west side of Vancouver, WA.  The "Castle Rock" on the original map is apparently actually "Cascade Locks" at Bonneville Dam which is about 30 or 40 miles east of Portland, OR.

As I understand it, the "Amboy chute" was found near the town of Amboy, WA and not 35 miles further north, and not north of Mt. St. Helens either.

I have no idea where the "1970 Search Area" came from, or what was being looked for at that location. ::)

The placard was not found at "Castle Rock" or "Cascade Locks", in any event.

This reminds me of another media error  - pic below from 1980. Note their location of Tena Bar.

I lived in Washington State as a very young boy and was a Boy Scout.  When I was there, Boy Scouts knew how to read maps, tie knots, and help old ladies across the street.  It looks like things have gone down hill from that era.

Thats why there is something called honors classes - and competition for them is higher than ever and overflowing, I am glad to report. Kids qualified in every sense of the word and more. This makes it tough for the kids at the bottom.

While I have you, whats the highest elevation on Tena Bar you know of and where is it? Would you agree the elevation behind the fence line is roughly 20ft, and was that the case in 1980 ?

There is apparently no accurate data for the elevations (or contour lines) at Tina Bar since those lines are generally machine drawn on maps and are basically just estimates.  And the contour interval there is 10 feet which means there probably won't be more than two lines anyway.

But we won't quit on the problem.  When Meyer Louie and I was there in 2013, we talked to a fisherman named "Jon" who had the key to the Tina Bar gate and who told us that he had basically been at Tina Bar on a daily basis for about the last 50 years.

Jon pointed out a log (or railroad tie) that was about 10 or 15 feet north of the Tina Bar gate and on the fence line.  Jon said that the log represented the highest river water level he had ever seen at Tina Bar.  He also specifically stated that he had never seen any river water flow into the dairy pond on the east side of that fence and nothing flowing from the pond into the river.

My eyeball guess was that the log in question was about 15 to 20 feet above sea level.  And let me emphasize the word "guess".  There was nothing to measure it by and I did not know what the river water level was referred to sea level.  But the log was about 2 feet (this is an accurate estimate) below the top of the bank separating the river from the pond and, again, it was right on the fence line.

From what I have seen of the Tina Bar area, including Shutter's recent photos, today's fence line is the same one that was there in 1980.  So I would agree that the fence line, specifically the top of that embankment, was very close to 20 feet above sea level.

Recently, I think I saw in some article that the ground elevations near Tina Bar went up to about 40 feet at the highest point, but that point was not identified.  Frankly, I doubt that is correct unless the writer was referring to the top of the Fazio's sand pile.  Basically, I would estimate that most of the Fazio's property is between about 20 and 25 feet, or less, above sea level and perhaps up to 30 feet above sea level on the river bank about 200 or 300 feet north of Tom Kaye's money find location.

But in the area of the Tina Bar gate, an estimate of 20 feet above sea level is as accurate as you can get until someone determines the elevation of the river water level and then, using a transit or similar instrument, determines the actual height of the fence line and the embankment where it is located.

Flooding at TBar is interesting - maybe vital to the money story but definitely a part of the mechanics of the sand bar, erosion, and its history.

Somewhere around 2008 Sluggo produced a profile (attached) at what he thought at the time was the money site. Its the only profile of T Bar we have to date. But Sluggo had the money location wrong. He later learned the money site was much further north. So using sounding data I found in addition to comments of Al Fazio, here is a new estimate of the beach contour line as it drops off abruptly in front of the money find site. To quote Fazio: "the water there is deep and drops off fast". It's a different profile than Sluggo produced for the area south just above Caterpillar Island. I will have more to say about this later but this has implications for how anything could have washed up on Tina Bar to be found at the money find site, because in a word, wet money does not "float"!     
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 04:23:18 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2232 on: August 04, 2016, 11:22:37 PM »
To add to my previous post here is Sluggo's elevation profile from 2008? with an inset showing where the line Sluggo struck is. He chose this location because at the time he incorrectly believed the money had been found at this location, in the southern area of Tena Bar just above Caterpillar Island..
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 11:23:30 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2233 on: August 05, 2016, 12:12:21 AM »
I want to get back on track with this area, but I'm pooped, the sun beat the hell out of me today. hopefully, I can jump in tomorrow  O0
 

Offline brbducksfan

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2234 on: August 06, 2016, 01:13:32 AM »
Wet $ doesn't float...I've always thought this was the key fact regarding the $ find and why the $ couldn't travel long distances in water.  In theory, I can see how the $ gets on the beach if it was dredged (and a dredge would explain the chards all over the place), but the $ wasn't found at a 'dredge' location right?