Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1214456 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5415 on: September 08, 2020, 01:49:50 PM »
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Not sure how they are put into 302's...it's statements from Tina's interview which is different from the standard 302..she recalls the chutes in both interviews..

I just want to see these 302s EU is referencing ... they are Public Information.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 02:33:23 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5416 on: September 08, 2020, 01:53:01 PM »
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Not sure how they are put into 302's...it's statements from Tina's interview which is different from the standard 302..she recalls the chutes in both interviews..

I just want to see these 302s EU is referencing ...


might be one, not sure. I always use the interviews as a straight source..
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5417 on: September 08, 2020, 01:55:14 PM »
I'm still wondering how he was going to utilize a backpack...I guess it could be strapped to the side of the harness..
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 01:56:43 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5418 on: September 08, 2020, 02:30:22 PM »
Palmer’s Four Layers:
1.The upper layer:  6-8 inches of reworked sand … the layer that contained fragments and bundles of the found money. Also contained newer soda pop cans and other debris, which which was not severely damaged or rusted.
2.The post dredging cross-bedded sand layer:  below or part of the upper active down to 24” - contained older soda pop cans, rusted nails and spikes, and other rusted artifacts, which were in a much more deteriorated condition.
3.The clay lump dredging sand: dark in color - mixture of course sand and fragments of organic clay from 24-48” depth …
4. The older sand layer (pre-dredging 1974).

The above is a synopsis paraphrased of the four layers Palmer identified. Note his use of artifacts and the condition of artifacts to help identify functional layers ... 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 02:34:00 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5419 on: September 08, 2020, 03:22:14 PM »
So far ... nobody Ive talked to knows anything about these cans ... if Palmer kept them as souvenirs or what? ... but they were not saved and entered as evidence by Seattle or anyone at Portland, or Vancouver ....  the cans appear to have vanished into history. But the agents Ive talked to never saw or dont remember this 302 or the article ... people will ask around to see if anyone knows anything about this! But to quote one Agent: "It sure is interesting." 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 03:26:41 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5420 on: September 08, 2020, 03:40:11 PM »
If the cans didn't appear to have much age on them it really doesn't matter when they were manufactured. it circles back around to the money not being on the beach very long. some of the debris could be buried by careless fisherman too. nails and spikes are not common things on a beach.

What does the Palmer family hold in regards to what Palmer kept over the years before he died?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5421 on: September 08, 2020, 04:19:25 PM »
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If the cans didn't appear to have much age on them it really doesn't matter when they were manufactured. it circles back around to the money not being on the beach very long. some of the debris could be buried by careless fisherman too. nails and spikes are not common things on a beach.

What does the Palmer family hold in regards to what Palmer kept over the years before he died?

I have no knowledge about the Palmer family ... maybe Kaye does. I recall Kaye found and interviewed a former student of Palmers ?

What does Kaye think about the Palmer article?

Did the Ingrams deposit these cans? And did Palmer photograph them?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 04:22:50 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5422 on: September 08, 2020, 04:40:35 PM »
I doubt the cans came from the Ingrams..beach goers do bury trash they have. I'm not saying that's how the cans got there but they seem to arrived around the same period. if they got buried by natural means then the tides were high enough to slowly bury them..
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5423 on: September 08, 2020, 04:45:08 PM »
Kaye probably knows about the article since it was in the files like a lot of other newspaper clippings. tracking down the family would be critical to see if they kept anything from him. his work was important to him so they might have a gold mine of info..

I would gather pictures vs keeping the cans were plausible back then. same for the pull taps and nails etc..
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 05:20:49 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5424 on: September 08, 2020, 05:15:42 PM »
Palmer seems to state three cans are involved.."two cans of soft drinks-along with Nesbitt's orange can" sounds like two cans of the Sioux city....
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 05:15:54 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5425 on: September 08, 2020, 05:39:46 PM »
Shutter-

Cooper could not have considered using the front-mount reserve by itself while wearing the knapsack on his back, because the front reserves do not have harnesses. However, knapsacks can be put on backwards, that is with one's arms through the shoulder straps normally, but with the knapsack hanging on one's chest rather than their back. That might be what he was considering.


Robert99-

I first had the same thought that you did regarding Eric's description of the reserve container. However, on second thought, his description is accurate. When the reserve container is opened, all the flaps open up so that it does lay flat. It's not a standard 'container' per se, a sewn shut enclosure with an opening at one end, like a bag or knapsack would be.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5426 on: September 08, 2020, 05:44:04 PM »
only the panels from the canopy were sewn. nothing on the container..
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5427 on: September 08, 2020, 05:47:30 PM »
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Not sure how they are put into 302's...it's statements from Tina's interview which is different from the standard 302..she recalls the chutes in both interviews..

I just want to see these 302s EU is referencing ...


might be one, not sure. I always use the interviews as a straight source..

I haven't had the time to source the "white material" comment, but it is possible--if not likely--that it wasn't from a 302 but rather some other FBI memo or FBI summary. Not sure.

Regardless, the impact is the same. After all, it is clear that DBC knew immediately upon receiving the ransom that he would have to use one of the parachutes to store at least some of the ransom. Moreover, we have witness testimony of seeing him attempting to do just that.

I suspect that given that Tina was busy and wasn't literally sitting there staring at DBC the entire time, but rather got occasional glimpses of his work, that she probably misinterpreted what she saw inasmuch as he was using one of the parachutes to store some of the money, not all of the money.

This becomes much more interesting when you consider that three packets somehow got separated from the rest of the ransom--on that point there is no dispute. Reading carefully what the witnesses saw and attempting to understand what was actually taking place, I think my version concerning the dummy reserve as the "white material" becomes more intriguing as it begins to explain how , when, where and why those three packets got separated from the rest of the ransom.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 05:51:27 PM by EU »
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5428 on: September 08, 2020, 05:50:09 PM »
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I doubt the cans came from the Ingrams..beach goers do bury trash they have. I'm not saying that's how the cans got there but they seem to arrived around the same period. if they got buried by natural means then the tides were high enough to slowly bury them..

Dorwin doesnt even remember the cans - says he never saw them or heard about them. But he thinks they should have been kept and tested for prints. I sent him the Seattle Office 302. He says all excavation evidence was taken and handled by Seattle, not Portland.   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5429 on: September 08, 2020, 05:50:18 PM »
Cossey also claims the chute wouldn't open. even if he tried.