Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1200324 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5385 on: September 07, 2020, 11:39:42 PM »
Good post by Flyjack today re- cans at Tina Bar:

•    #62475
7 hours ago (edited)
"What is Sioux City Sarsaparilla?
Sioux City Sarsaparilla is the signature drink from White Rock's Sioux City line. In 1973, White Rock president Albert Morgan wanted to start a western inspired line of classic American soft drinks, with a frontier feel. He chose Sioux City as his inspiration! Sioux City Sarsaparilla is known as "the Grandaddy of all root beers" and has a creamy taste somewhere between root beer and cream soda. And it's the most bought sarsaparilla in the US!"
 
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This seems to indicate it was started in 1973,,,  if so, since it was found in the same layer with the TBAR money then that suggests the money arrived after 1973... 
I found an ad for it dated Aug 1973..
Edited 7 hours ago by FLYJACK

...................
Questions:

1. Were the cans saved? Who has them? Any lab work on them?
2. Who left them and where were they made-sold?
3. Did the cans come from the Heisson store?
4. Can the cans be used to date the sand layer the Ingram money was in?
5. Did DB Cooper deposit these cans at Tina Bar ?
6. Did Sioux City Sarsaparilla first come in bottles before it was marketed in cans?
7. Wiki says first marketed in 1987, not 1973 ? 

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« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 11:56:11 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5386 on: September 08, 2020, 12:08:16 AM »
I believe the bottles started in 87. it is a little confusing searching around with this. I emailed White Rock to see what they can validate. several makes of the can is found online..some are steel and others are aluminum. some have pull tabs that come off and some are attached like today's tabs. if the cans were found at the same level, then? if the manufacture started in 1973 this presents a problem with anything prior to 1973 if the can is at or near the money location and level..one ad is selling a can supposedly from the 60's and 70's...it's completely wrong since they have curved tops and bottoms along with a bottom that was pressed which wasn't done in that period. the cans were flat on the bottom..the year could be found if the original can was present...I doubt it's anywhere to be found now..
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 12:14:28 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5387 on: September 08, 2020, 12:22:21 AM »
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I believe the bottles started in 87. it is a little confusing searching around with this. I emailed White Rock to see what they can validate. several makes of the can is found online..some are steel and others are aluminum. some have pull tabs that come off and some are attached like today's tabs. if the cans were found at the same level, then? if the manufacture started in 1973 this presents a problem with anything prior to 1973 if the can is at or near the money location and level..one ad is selling a can supposedly from the 60's and 70's...it's completely wrong since they have curved tops and bottoms along with a bottom that was pressed which wasn't done in that period. the cans were flat on the bottom..the year could be found if the original can was present...I doubt it's anywhere to be found now..

I hope somebody kept the TBar cans! I will ask around . . . more projects! Never ends ...  :rofl:
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5388 on: September 08, 2020, 12:32:02 AM »
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Do we know for sure how Cooper packed the money. Did he use the spare chute as a money bag? Also, do we know that he secured it from his body or did he hang it from a line?

Anything we know from the reports, not conjecture?

No simple answer to this. No, we dont know how Cooper packed the money with certainty. The problem began when the knapsack Cooper requested was not delivered to him. Coop had obviously intended to use a knapsack to house and transport the money. When that failed ....  the following passages apply:

Transcript T1 resumes:
7:54 pm    t1   
MSP:      As soon as reasonably sure the man has left the quicker you can land.
305:    Roger. Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump. 
MSP:      Roger. After leaving this freq go to 131.8 we have direct phone patch
There (to Company and FBI)
305:       Roger.
            
From Crew Interviews:
When Mucklow returned to the plane with the last back pack chute, she saw that the hijacker had one of the small chutes open and was cutting nylon cords out with his pocket knife. He took the nylon cord and wrapped it around the neck of the money bag numerous times and then he wrapped it a few times from top to bottom, and with the same piece (of cord)  he made a loop like a handle at the top. This nylon cord was pinkish in color. He appeared irritated that they hadn’t given him a knapsack for the money as requested, and after trying to put the money in an unfolded parachute, he decided to leave it in the canvas bag (and fabricate a holding line for that, instead).   

Mucklow Interview II:
The plane took off (with the rear door ajar) and she held her ears because of the loud noise from the engines. Approximately four minutes after take off he stood up and told her to go the cockpit and close the first class curtain, and for no one to come back behind the curtain. The lights were out in the rear compartment and she went forward, faced the curtain, (and turned around and looked?) and the last time she saw him he had a nylon cord tied around his waste and he was standing in the isle. Before she secured the curtain she called back and pleaded with him to take the bomb with him or disarm it before he left.
So we aren’t really even sure what container he put the money?
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5389 on: September 08, 2020, 12:38:08 AM »
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I believe the bottles started in 87. it is a little confusing searching around with this. I emailed White Rock to see what they can validate. several makes of the can is found online..some are steel and others are aluminum. some have pull tabs that come off and some are attached like today's tabs. if the cans were found at the same level, then? if the manufacture started in 1973 this presents a problem with anything prior to 1973 if the can is at or near the money location and level..one ad is selling a can supposedly from the 60's and 70's...it's completely wrong since they have curved tops and bottoms along with a bottom that was pressed which wasn't done in that period. the cans were flat on the bottom..the year could be found if the original can was present...I doubt it's anywhere to be found now..

I hope somebody kept the TBar cans! I will ask around . . . more projects! Never ends ...  :rofl:

The oldest can by them would probably be steel. if it was aluminum no rust would of been found. the early aluminum cans were still rolled and seamed unlike today's can. as years went by the seam got better. then the pressed cans came into play..

..
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5390 on: September 08, 2020, 12:41:47 AM »
Quote
So we aren’t really even sure what container he put the money?

As Tina closed the curtain he was seen trying to tie the money to himself in the bank bag..he already had one chute out and failed to utilize anything from it..using another chute would only be speculation..

Should say he was seen tying the money to himself vs trying...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 12:42:43 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5391 on: September 08, 2020, 02:10:50 AM »
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Quote
So we aren’t really even sure what container he put the money?

As Tina closed the curtain he was seen trying to tie the money to himself in the bank bag..he already had one chute out and failed to utilize anything from it..using another chute would only be speculation..

Should say he was seen tying the money to himself vs trying...

The parachute that Tina saw opened was the reserve that was left on the airplane and Cooper cut several shroud lines from it (about 100 feet total according to TK).

posted here by mistake...shutter
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 08:32:00 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5392 on: September 08, 2020, 06:46:48 AM »
A few things to consider regarding the money container.

1) I think it is all but certain that the money was delivered in a Size H bank bag. The money being placed in that bag fills it to within about 7 or 8 inches as I recall. (NOTE: I have actually done this, photographed this and placed a pic on my site EricUlis.com).

2) The bank bag was simply too full to tightly secure with shroud lines or anything else. Therefore, DBC had to remove some of the money before he cinched the top and jumped.

3) Mucklow saw him attempting to wrap the money in a "white material." The only white material she could have seen was the dummy reserve canopy.

4) The 302's state Tina saw DBC attempt to put the ransom into one of the reserves but gave up on it. I believe this is incorrect. I believe what Tina saw was DBC putting some--not all--of the ransom in a reserve , and that he successfully did this. Additionally, I believe she saw him keep the rest of the ransom in the bank bag and secure it with shroud lines to his person.

5) The dummy reserve is missing, is the only reserve with a white canopy and could not attach to the main parachute. Therefore, the only thing that makes sense is that DBC used the dummy reserve to unfold and cinch up the overflow packets of twenties and the missing attache case. I believe Tina saw part of this process but not the entire process.

6) When DBC landed, if he discarded the dummy reserve--which makes sense--after retrieving the attache case and excess packets of twenties, you then have an explanation how some of the packets of twenties got separated from the majority of twenties still in the bank bag. I believe the money was buried at Tena Bar by DBC this way. In other words, the still-tied bank bag and loose excess packets of twenties all went into the hole together. Again, this is how and why there were three packets separated and left behind at the Tena Bar burial site--he simply missed them in the hole during the retrieval process.

7) Factor in the May/June 1972 flooding and the diatoms and it all adds up and makes sense. I cannot conceive of another rational explanation that ties everything together.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5393 on: September 08, 2020, 08:33:59 AM »
I commented on R99's post by mistake...

I should have included the shroud lines but thought everyone knew..guess I should have included that..
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5394 on: September 08, 2020, 09:01:45 AM »
The bank where the money came from describes the bag as white. the bag was pushing it already since it wasn't what Cooper requested. I feel he would of rejected it if it wasn't able to close. I recall Tina saying a cloth bank type bag giving no color..one witness stated off white.

Reading the statement with Tina also has this "she dragged a white canvas money bag down the isle"

Why does the dummy chute have to be used for the money..the chute fooled Emerick.

What did Cooper do different to the dummy chute that couldn't be done to a chute already taken apart. the only way would be to pull the cord..

Define "unfold"
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 09:07:29 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5395 on: September 08, 2020, 09:47:20 AM »
All the pictures Palmer took at the site are critical to the investigation. pictures of the cans and debris found were probably taken as they were found during the dig.

Does Palmer make the same notations in the report as the newspaper statements? he claims the money was wet most of the time and aged like driftwood.

I'm still not satisfied where the tides stopped and started vs the money location and the Fazio's claim it was often under water..
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5396 on: September 08, 2020, 09:52:35 AM »
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The bank where the money came from describes the bag as white. the bag was pushing it already since it wasn't what Cooper requested. I feel he would of rejected it if it wasn't able to close. I recall Tina saying a cloth bank type bag giving no color..one witness stated off white.

Reading the statement with Tina also has this "she dragged a white canvas money bag down the isle"

Why does the dummy chute have to be used for the money..the chute fooled Emerick.

What did Cooper do different to the dummy chute that couldn't be done to a chute already taken apart. the only way would be to pull the cord..

Define "unfold"

Other witnesses describe the bank bag as approximately 1' X 2'. Additional things also suggest the Size H canvas bank bag was used--it was standard.

Tina said she saw DBC wrapping the ransom in a "white material." What other white material could she be talking about other than the dummy reserve canopy? Especially when you consider that DBC took the dummy reserve.

"Unfold" means that DBC opened up the dummy reserve and spread out the canopy and used it to bundle up the excess packets of twenties and the attache case. DBC then would have used shroud lines to tie up this bundle too--remember he can also use the shroud lines from the dummy reserve itself. Note, the container for the dummy reserve is not a container per se. Rather. it's essentially a flat canvas sheet that folds up around the canopy when packed.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5397 on: September 08, 2020, 09:54:04 AM »
You describe everything that could of been done with a chute already open..why the redundancy?
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5398 on: September 08, 2020, 09:55:28 AM »
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You describe everything that could of been done with a chute already open..why the redundancy?

I'm not sure what you mean by the question.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #5399 on: September 08, 2020, 10:01:22 AM »
He already had one chute open and attempted to use it to carry the money. Tina stated the color being bright pink or orange. why would he open another chute very similar doing basically the same thing?