The only thing I recall is Sailshaw stating Cooper gave each one of the stews a bundle and that's why 3 were found....

I think so. I haven't discussed that with him..

I ran across something while searching for files, last week. It reads a little awkwardly because it was from notes taken hastily ... followed up latter by a second fuller interview. But it adds perspective to the excavation at Tina Bar and what the digging in the area south of the Ingram find was all about - - - Dorwin and another agent were helpful in getting these interviews: from August 2010

SA Loren  Lindsey was at Portland from 1974-88 and replaced the SA at Vancouver in 1988.

Excavation: Loren arrived on the second day of the Tina Bar excavation to replace Dorwin Schreuder who was called to another assignment. Loren ‘was present when Palmer arrived and ordered a backhoe to dig trenches, however, except for exchanging introductions Loren did not work with or communicate with Palmer during the course of the excavation’, but worked with other agents looking for evidence in other areas of the sandbar. Loren says: “this sandbar was a vast place. We had a lot of examining to do in a short time, so we worked in groups in assigned areas where evidence had been produced in the original canvas …”

Loren confirms there were “hundreds of fragments” (“not thousands”) that he saw in a “25-30 square yard debris area” at Tina Bar.  Within this area Loren estimates there was a 5-10 square yard area which was yielding the most fragments to a depth of a foot or more. Loren says by the time he got to the site Schreuder and Paul Hudson and others had pretty well examined the area, especially the surface, and extracted  “hundreds of fragments of all sizes”. Loren says “these fragments were easily identifiable as money from the green ink, parts of serial numbers, and the total amount of money that was there would easily be over the $5800 figure the press eventually reported”.

There was also a second area of concentration about 50-60 yards to the south of the Ingram find area, ‘where I did a lot of raking and digging, that Paul Hudson and Dorey turned up in their original raking. We turned up probably a hundred or more fragments there. Palmer finally ordered a second trench dug in that area.’  “ It looked to me like that whole section of the beach had been flooded with money and fragments at one time. We just couldn’t imagine how it all got up there.”

Loren confirms that Dorwin and others laid out a grid pattern at first, and relied on hand work with rakes, hoes, and shovels. “When Palmer arrived  a backhoe was brought in and I remember a tractor and a disk was brought in and they disked up part of the bar to see if any other evidence would pop out… we were mainly interested in evidence of Cooper himself at that point, bones, part of the parachute,  or any other large evidence like more bundles of money, but nothing more turned up. Palmer was always busy with people around him. Ralph was there working close with Palmer and the guys from Seattle. My group worked at a distance further down on the sandbar because we had found a hot spot there”.

Loren says that the theory he heard was that the money had arrived by some “lake or tributary near where Copper landed” – When I prompted him with the name “Washougal”  Loren said “yes. That’s it. The Washougal”.  Loren says the pilots identified the Washougal River area to Himmelsbach as being the area they were over when Cooper bailed out.  I asked Loren how he knew this and he said “from the other agents and Ralph”. 

*Loren's work area shown attached - Loren believes everything collected went with the Seattle agents back to Seattle and then sent to the lab in Washington DC for analysis or storage. 

I ran across something while searching for files, last week. It reads a little awkwardly because it was from notes taken hastily ... followed up latter by a second fuller interview. But it adds perspective to the excavation at Tina Bar and what the digging in the area south of the Ingram find was all about - - - Dorwin and another agent were helpful in getting these interviews: from August 2010

SA Loren  Lindsey was at Portland from 1974-88 and replaced the SA at Vancouver in 1988.

Excavation: Loren arrived on the second day of the Tina Bar excavation to replace Dorwin Schreuder who was called to another assignment. Loren ‘was present when Palmer arrived and ordered a backhoe to dig trenches, however, except for exchanging introductions Loren did not work with or communicate with Palmer during the course of the excavation’, but worked with other agents looking for evidence in other areas of the sandbar. Loren says: “this sandbar was a vast place. We had a lot of examining to do in a short time, so we worked in groups in assigned areas where evidence had been produced in the original canvas …”

Loren confirms there were “hundreds of fragments” (“not thousands”) that he saw in a “25-30 square yard debris area” at Tina Bar.  Within this area Loren estimates there was a 5-10 square yard area which was yielding the most fragments to a depth of a foot or more. Loren says by the time he got to the site Schreuder and Paul Hudson and others had pretty well examined the area, especially the surface, and extracted  “hundreds of fragments of all sizes”. Loren says “these fragments were easily identifiable as money from the green ink, parts of serial numbers, and the total amount of money that was there would easily be over the $5800 figure the press eventually reported”.

There was also a second area of concentration about 50-60 yards to the south of the Ingram find area, ‘where I did a lot of raking and digging, that Paul Hudson and Dorey turned up in their original raking. We turned up probably a hundred or more fragments there. Palmer finally ordered a second trench dug in that area.’  “ It looked to me like that whole section of the beach had been flooded with money and fragments at one time. We just couldn’t imagine how it all got up there.”

Loren confirms that Dorwin and others laid out a grid pattern at first, and relied on hand work with rakes, hoes, and shovels. “When Palmer arrived  a backhoe was brought in and I remember a tractor and a disk was brought in and they disked up part of the bar to see if any other evidence would pop out… we were mainly interested in evidence of Cooper himself at that point, bones, part of the parachute,  or any other large evidence like more bundles of money, but nothing more turned up. Palmer was always busy with people around him. Ralph was there working close with Palmer and the guys from Seattle. My group worked at a distance further down on the sandbar because we had found a hot spot there”.

Loren says that the theory he heard was that the money had arrived by some “lake or tributary near where Copper landed” – When I prompted him with the name “Washougal”  Loren said “yes. That’s it. The Washougal”.  Loren says the pilots identified the Washougal River area to Himmelsbach as being the area they were over when Cooper bailed out.  I asked Loren how he knew this and he said “from the other agents and Ralph”. 

*Loren's work area shown attached - Loren believes everything collected went with the Seattle agents back to Seattle and then sent to the lab in Washington DC for analysis or storage.

My take on the above is that many more bundles, or partial bundles, than the famous three arrived at Tina Bar at the same time.  This further evidence that some of the fragments were one foot or more under the sand suggests that they had been there for some time and undergone several floods or high river conditions which covered them with sand. 

Note that the fragments were apparently further from the normal water's edge than the bundles.  Maybe the bundles and fragments arrived at the same time and were scattered over a small area and then the normal river erosion just uncovered, or almost uncovered, the bundles. 

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I ran across something while searching for files, last week. It reads a little awkwardly because it was from notes taken hastily ... followed up latter by a second fuller interview. But it adds perspective to the excavation at Tina Bar and what the digging in the area south of the Ingram find was all about - - - Dorwin and another agent were helpful in getting these interviews: from August 2010

SA Loren  Lindsey was at Portland from 1974-88 and replaced the SA at Vancouver in 1988.

Excavation: Loren arrived on the second day of the Tina Bar excavation to replace Dorwin Schreuder who was called to another assignment. Loren ‘was present when Palmer arrived and ordered a backhoe to dig trenches, however, except for exchanging introductions Loren did not work with or communicate with Palmer during the course of the excavation’, but worked with other agents looking for evidence in other areas of the sandbar. Loren says: “this sandbar was a vast place. We had a lot of examining to do in a short time, so we worked in groups in assigned areas where evidence had been produced in the original canvas …”

Loren confirms there were “hundreds of fragments” (“not thousands”) that he saw in a “25-30 square yard debris area” at Tina Bar.  Within this area Loren estimates there was a 5-10 square yard area which was yielding the most fragments to a depth of a foot or more. Loren says by the time he got to the site Schreuder and Paul Hudson and others had pretty well examined the area, especially the surface, and extracted  “hundreds of fragments of all sizes”. Loren says “these fragments were easily identifiable as money from the green ink, parts of serial numbers, and the total amount of money that was there would easily be over the $5800 figure the press eventually reported”.

There was also a second area of concentration about 50-60 yards to the south of the Ingram find area, ‘where I did a lot of raking and digging, that Paul Hudson and Dorey turned up in their original raking. We turned up probably a hundred or more fragments there. Palmer finally ordered a second trench dug in that area.’  “ It looked to me like that whole section of the beach had been flooded with money and fragments at one time. We just couldn’t imagine how it all got up there.”

Loren confirms that Dorwin and others laid out a grid pattern at first, and relied on hand work with rakes, hoes, and shovels. “When Palmer arrived  a backhoe was brought in and I remember a tractor and a disk was brought in and they disked up part of the bar to see if any other evidence would pop out… we were mainly interested in evidence of Cooper himself at that point, bones, part of the parachute,  or any other large evidence like more bundles of money, but nothing more turned up. Palmer was always busy with people around him. Ralph was there working close with Palmer and the guys from Seattle. My group worked at a distance further down on the sandbar because we had found a hot spot there”.

Loren says that the theory he heard was that the money had arrived by some “lake or tributary near where Copper landed” – When I prompted him with the name “Washougal”  Loren said “yes. That’s it. The Washougal”.  Loren says the pilots identified the Washougal River area to Himmelsbach as being the area they were over when Cooper bailed out.  I asked Loren how he knew this and he said “from the other agents and Ralph”. 

*Loren's work area shown attached - Loren believes everything collected went with the Seattle agents back to Seattle and then sent to the lab in Washington DC for analysis or storage.

My take on the above is that many more bundles, or partial bundles, than the famous three arrived at Tina Bar at the same time.  This further evidence that some of the fragments were one foot or more under the sand suggests that they had been there for some time and undergone several floods or high river conditions which covered them with sand. 

Note that the fragments were apparently further from the normal water's edge than the bundles.  Maybe the bundles and fragments arrived at the same time and were scattered over a small area and then the normal river erosion just uncovered, or almost uncovered, the bundles.

It seems to imply a dispersal of some kind, with concentrations in two areas?. BTW, Loren was very open with his information. He said of all the cases he's worked the Tina Bar excavation was one of the most intriguing. He said there was high anticipation that something of Cooper's (chute, chute parts, or Cooper's bones) would turn up but when it didn't people were further mystified. He said some agents did not accept Ralph's Washougal explanation. He said he personally had been fishing in this area a number of times and knew there was a wing damn directly north of their excavation location - he recommended to someone that the wing dam be searched. Someone remarked, 'Tosaw will search it!' laughing. He said the week after the excavation Tosaw started calling the Portland office almost daily. He said the calls were referred to 'Dorey'! He said so far as he knew the wing damn had never been searched, even by Tosaw!

Loren says he does not believe Cooper landed anywhere near Tina Bar and so the money find is a complete mystery unless it was brought up by the dredging in 1974. He said every agent and everyone in law enforcement had their ears open (for years!) for anything (local chatter, other cases, anything...) that would connect to the Cooper money at Tina Bar. He confirms that Portland renewed a search for any records (hospitals, morg, etc) for any John Doe that was found during the period of the hijacking. Nothing ever connected.       

Was the search limited to just the banks of the river?  Was there any thoughts to searching further inland? I am thinking just on the other side of the river's embankment.    And no,I am not inferring that the Fazio's were involved. They had absolutely NOTHING to do with the hijacking!  In fact Hager said they probably never broke a law in their lives.  Hager said they were "beyond reproach" (his words).  He said everyone should believe them when they said they spread the dredge spoils 500 feet( or whatever distance they said they spread them).  He used to observe them from across the river. He said spreading the spoils cost them time and money and that it wouldn't make sense for them to spend any more time or money on it than the law mandated.  They also never moved any of the spoils inland or added any sand to the banks of the river. If I seemed to infer this in the past, I apologize to everyone and especially the Fazios.

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I ran across something while searching for files, last week. It reads a little awkwardly because it was from notes taken hastily ... followed up latter by a second fuller interview. But it adds perspective to the excavation at Tina Bar and what the digging in the area south of the Ingram find was all about - - - Dorwin and another agent were helpful in getting these interviews: from August 2010

SA Loren  Lindsey was at Portland from 1974-88 and replaced the SA at Vancouver in 1988.

Excavation: Loren arrived on the second day of the Tina Bar excavation to replace Dorwin Schreuder who was called to another assignment. Loren ‘was present when Palmer arrived and ordered a backhoe to dig trenches, however, except for exchanging introductions Loren did not work with or communicate with Palmer during the course of the excavation’, but worked with other agents looking for evidence in other areas of the sandbar. Loren says: “this sandbar was a vast place. We had a lot of examining to do in a short time, so we worked in groups in assigned areas where evidence had been produced in the original canvas …”

Loren confirms there were “hundreds of fragments” (“not thousands”) that he saw in a “25-30 square yard debris area” at Tina Bar.  Within this area Loren estimates there was a 5-10 square yard area which was yielding the most fragments to a depth of a foot or more. Loren says by the time he got to the site Schreuder and Paul Hudson and others had pretty well examined the area, especially the surface, and extracted  “hundreds of fragments of all sizes”. Loren says “these fragments were easily identifiable as money from the green ink, parts of serial numbers, and the total amount of money that was there would easily be over the $5800 figure the press eventually reported”.

There was also a second area of concentration about 50-60 yards to the south of the Ingram find area, ‘where I did a lot of raking and digging, that Paul Hudson and Dorey turned up in their original raking. We turned up probably a hundred or more fragments there. Palmer finally ordered a second trench dug in that area.’  “ It looked to me like that whole section of the beach had been flooded with money and fragments at one time. We just couldn’t imagine how it all got up there.”

Loren confirms that Dorwin and others laid out a grid pattern at first, and relied on hand work with rakes, hoes, and shovels. “When Palmer arrived  a backhoe was brought in and I remember a tractor and a disk was brought in and they disked up part of the bar to see if any other evidence would pop out… we were mainly interested in evidence of Cooper himself at that point, bones, part of the parachute,  or any other large evidence like more bundles of money, but nothing more turned up. Palmer was always busy with people around him. Ralph was there working close with Palmer and the guys from Seattle. My group worked at a distance further down on the sandbar because we had found a hot spot there”.

Loren says that the theory he heard was that the money had arrived by some “lake or tributary near where Copper landed” – When I prompted him with the name “Washougal”  Loren said “yes. That’s it. The Washougal”.  Loren says the pilots identified the Washougal River area to Himmelsbach as being the area they were over when Cooper bailed out.  I asked Loren how he knew this and he said “from the other agents and Ralph”. 

*Loren's work area shown attached - Loren believes everything collected went with the Seattle agents back to Seattle and then sent to the lab in Washington DC for analysis or storage.

My take on the above is that many more bundles, or partial bundles, than the famous three arrived at Tina Bar at the same time.  This further evidence that some of the fragments were one foot or more under the sand suggests that they had been there for some time and undergone several floods or high river conditions which covered them with sand. 

Note that the fragments were apparently further from the normal water's edge than the bundles.  Maybe the bundles and fragments arrived at the same time and were scattered over a small area and then the normal river erosion just uncovered, or almost uncovered, the bundles.

It seems to imply a dispersal of some kind, with concentrations in two areas?. BTW, Loren was very open with his information. He said of all the cases he's worked the Tina Bar excavation was one of the most intriguing. He said there was high anticipation that something of Cooper's (chute, chute parts, or Cooper's bones) would turn up but when it didn't people were further mystified. He said some agents did not accept Ralph's Washougal explanation. He said he personally had been fishing in this area a number of times and knew there was a wing damn directly north of their excavation location - he recommended to someone that the wing dam be searched. Someone remarked, 'Tosaw will search it!' laughing. He said the week after the excavation Tosaw started calling the Portland office almost daily. He said the calls were referred to 'Dorey'! He said so far as he knew the wing damn had never been searched, even by Tosaw!

Loren says he does not believe Cooper landed anywhere near Tina Bar and so the money find is a complete mystery unless it was brought up by the dredging in 1974. He said every agent and everyone in law enforcement had their ears open (for years!) for anything (local chatter, other cases, anything...) that would connect to the Cooper money at Tina Bar. He confirms that Portland renewed a search for any records (hospitals, morg, etc) for any John Doe that was found during the period of the hijacking. Nothing ever connected.       

Georger, Please get back in touch with Loren and ask if the FBI agents searched Caterpillar Island for any evidence of Cooper.

That wing dam he mentions would have been a good place to check since it is obvious that the money bag, and maybe Cooper as well, was moving downstream.

The fragments were apparently in that state when they arrived at Tina Bar.  So where do you (Georger) suggest the bills were when they became fragments?  Were they under sand somewhere else, under water somewhere else, or exposed to the air with frequent episodes of wetting and drying?

No. Caterpillar Island was not searched, during the excavation. Other people did searches on Cat Isle but not the FBI and apparently not Tosaw. Ive never seen a report of Tosaw searching "on" Cat Island, near it yes, off shore yes, but not "on" the island per se.

When and how bills were reduced to fragments - is an important question. Did they arrive as fragments? Were fragments created in-situ somehow?  That is one of the reasons I want more lab tests! Isotope Tests on bills, fragments, and sediments where the various fragments were collected. I want an approx isotopic date when that money got buried at T-Bar. The date of deposit might correlate with a specific event ... like dredging in 74.  Those basic tests should have been done clear back in 1980.