Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1214496 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3975 on: October 01, 2018, 02:43:51 PM »
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At some point it comes down to considering what's involved with each scenario. I just do not believe a bundle of cash is, by some natural manner, going to end up washing ashore on Tena Bar, self burying, then get discovered nine years later. I think that the odds of such an occurrence are one-in-a-trillion at best all things considered.

Likewise, the dredge theory strikes me as equally implausible. It's just too fantastical in my mind.

That leaves only one scenario; the money was buried by human intervention. Of course, this assumes that the Ingram's were telling the truth.

Disagree, IMO, your scenario is highly speculative and stretches reason and logic.

Requires..
Moving the flightpath,
Cooper buries money close to landing zone to retrieve later,
Buried on a sandbar near the river, extremely poor site selection for purpose.

The most plausible route is the money coming from the River. I don't really like the dredge, but that is irrelevant, the $200,000 question is how did the money get into the River upstream of TBAR.


BTW, I was looking closely at the holes in some of the bills and they look exactly like insect holes. I agree with Kaye that some were made from bacteria, but not all have that dark edge..

Perhaps some of the holes are from sand or grit that got between the bills and the abrasion created the holes during wet/dry cycles.

and if the sand at a higher volume had infiltrated the edges of the packet that abrasiveness may have caused the unique shape of deterioration.

.

Actually it does not require the flight path to be moved. I believe the flight path is wrong, but, it is possible the feds were exactly correct and Cooper simply drove to Tena Bar and buried the cash for a period of time.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3976 on: October 01, 2018, 07:17:56 PM »
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At some point it comes down to considering what's involved with each scenario. I just do not believe a bundle of cash is, by some natural manner, going to end up washing ashore on Tena Bar, self burying, then get discovered nine years later. I think that the odds of such an occurrence are one-in-a-trillion at best all things considered.

Likewise, the dredge theory strikes me as equally implausible. It's just too fantastical in my mind.

That leaves only one scenario; the money was buried by human intervention. Of course, this assumes that the Ingram's were telling the truth.

Millions of pieces of debris which have made the trek to T_Bar could make the same claim. It's called Innumeracy. In the case of the Cooper money there may be some mitigating factors. We just don't know all of the hydrological options in spite of the fact millions of things are brought to Tina Bar hydrologically, annually!

Human intervention does not even register on the probability scale of options. Natural forces don't talk - people do! Human intervention has about the same probability as Tom Kaye's propeller theory!

That is why most people vote for the dredging. Its a known fact that could link the money to Tina Bar, in the form the money was found at Tina Bar. 

 

The flaw with this argument/analogy is that it ignores several remarkable facts including:

1) There were three independent packets of money found stacked upon each other.
2) There were rubber bands still intact which provide an excellent barometer for a number of parameters that the packets could not exceed.
3) The money find represents a small portion of the total package that we know existed (other money, bank bag, Cooper's body, parachutes, attache case, etc.)...not a single piece of any of these other items have been found.
4) Money is valuable, therefore, it is highly unlikely anyone saw the packets until they were discovered meaning that they were completely hidden from view for nine years.

The money find, all things considered, cannot be fairly compared to a random log or piece of debris that ends up on Tena Bar.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3977 on: October 01, 2018, 11:52:09 PM »
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At some point it comes down to considering what's involved with each scenario. I just do not believe a bundle of cash is, by some natural manner, going to end up washing ashore on Tena Bar, self burying, then get discovered nine years later. I think that the odds of such an occurrence are one-in-a-trillion at best all things considered.

Likewise, the dredge theory strikes me as equally implausible. It's just too fantastical in my mind.

That leaves only one scenario; the money was buried by human intervention. Of course, this assumes that the Ingram's were telling the truth.

Millions of pieces of debris which have made the trek to T_Bar could make the same claim. It's called Innumeracy. In the case of the Cooper money there may be some mitigating factors. We just don't know all of the hydrological options in spite of the fact millions of things are brought to Tina Bar hydrologically, annually!

Human intervention does not even register on the probability scale of options. Natural forces don't talk - people do! Human intervention has about the same probability as Tom Kaye's propeller theory!

That is why most people vote for the dredging. Its a known fact that could link the money to Tina Bar, in the form the money was found at Tina Bar. 

 

The flaw with this argument/analogy is that it ignores several remarkable facts including:

1) There were three independent packets of money found stacked upon each other.
2) There were rubber bands still intact which provide an excellent barometer for a number of parameters that the packets could not exceed.
3) The money find represents a small portion of the total package that we know existed (other money, bank bag, Cooper's body, parachutes, attache case, etc.)...not a single piece of any of these other items have been found.
4) Money is valuable, therefore, it is highly unlikely anyone saw the packets until they were discovered meaning that they were completely hidden from view for nine years.

The money find, all things considered, cannot be fairly compared to a random log or piece of debris that ends up on Tena Bar.

No.1: Three intact bundles together may indicate these three bundles were in the presence of other Cooper bundles when three bundles got separated from the rest? We know that the serial numbers in these bundles were in the same order as when given to Cooper. What we dont know is how and when three bundles got separated from the rest of the money, if it did, and how it could have been transported to Tina Bar except by the dredging. Three bundles intact making there way to Tina Bar by some hydrological process is virtually as impossible as your two shoes lost in Seattle made their way to Tina Bar as a pair also!  ;D     

No. 2 above is false, and meaningless.

No.3 is irrelevant.

No.4 seems true. Whatever process put three bundles on Tina Bar must also cover them up from view - that seems likely. There are only a few processes that could do that. Planting and burial is one of those options, but very unlikely for other very sound reasons in evidence.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 01:47:42 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3978 on: October 02, 2018, 12:06:29 AM »
I have many-many photos of Cooper bills never seen before. Here is a good demonstration of just how deteriorated the Cooper money was. Deterioration = time. When you look at this Cooper bill recall how US paper money is made, from a wove matrix to layers added with fillers etc etc until at length a whole fresh piece of currency paper is made, and then printed. Paper money is really a lamination.

Note all the cracking, after drying. How many seasons did the Cooper bills go through at Tina Bar? Dry periods, wet periods, seasonal temperature changes, etc etc.   
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 12:13:42 AM by georger »
 

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3979 on: October 02, 2018, 10:01:21 AM »
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At some point it comes down to considering what's involved with each scenario. I just do not believe a bundle of cash is, by some natural manner, going to end up washing ashore on Tena Bar, self burying, then get discovered nine years later. I think that the odds of such an occurrence are one-in-a-trillion at best all things considered.

Likewise, the dredge theory strikes me as equally implausible. It's just too fantastical in my mind.

That leaves only one scenario; the money was buried by human intervention. Of course, this assumes that the Ingram's were telling the truth.

Millions of pieces of debris which have made the trek to T_Bar could make the same claim. It's called Innumeracy. In the case of the Cooper money there may be some mitigating factors. We just don't know all of the hydrological options in spite of the fact millions of things are brought to Tina Bar hydrologically, annually!

Human intervention does not even register on the probability scale of options. Natural forces don't talk - people do! Human intervention has about the same probability as Tom Kaye's propeller theory!

That is why most people vote for the dredging. Its a known fact that could link the money to Tina Bar, in the form the money was found at Tina Bar. 

 

The flaw with this argument/analogy is that it ignores several remarkable facts including:

1) There were three independent packets of money found stacked upon each other.
2) There were rubber bands still intact which provide an excellent barometer for a number of parameters that the packets could not exceed.
3) The money find represents a small portion of the total package that we know existed (other money, bank bag, Cooper's body, parachutes, attache case, etc.)...not a single piece of any of these other items have been found.
4) Money is valuable, therefore, it is highly unlikely anyone saw the packets until they were discovered meaning that they were completely hidden from view for nine years.

The money find, all things considered, cannot be fairly compared to a random log or piece of debris that ends up on Tena Bar.

1) Those 3 independent packets may have been banded together as one bundle when they landed on TBAR.
2) The rubber bands weren't "intact". Brittle fragments were attached. Exact location unknown.
3) Placard
4) The money was "marked" it's value would be a liability to many... it may have been discarded later for this reason.
 

Offline 377

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3980 on: October 02, 2018, 01:43:13 PM »
Anecdotal data on rubber band aging.

I was going through some old files last weekend, tossing papers that are no longer needed. I came upon a file folder that I am am 100% sure hadn't opened since 1980. In it were two loose rubber bands, apparently of identical dimensions. They were in an accordion (expandable) paper file folder and the folder was in a Rubbermaid plastic tote bin. Not hermetically sealed but well protected from UV.

See photos. One rubber band was in like new condition, supple, stretchy, no signs of discoloring, oxidation or decay. The other, stored in the same folder, was badly discolored, had lost almost all elasticity, and would obviously break if the slightest force were applied to it.

Puzzling. Different mfrs? Different compositions?

377
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 01:49:21 PM by 377 »
 

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3981 on: October 02, 2018, 01:55:34 PM »
I will bring my Cooper 20 to the symposium so attendees can get an up-close look at it. It is badly decayed, much of the outer area is missing, has the holes as seen in other T Bar 20s,  but the entire SN is readable. I'll also bring my SeaFirst money bag. Might bring my NB 8 Cooper rig and maybe even a chest reserve.

377
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3982 on: October 02, 2018, 02:09:51 PM »
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At some point it comes down to considering what's involved with each scenario. I just do not believe a bundle of cash is, by some natural manner, going to end up washing ashore on Tena Bar, self burying, then get discovered nine years later. I think that the odds of such an occurrence are one-in-a-trillion at best all things considered.

Likewise, the dredge theory strikes me as equally implausible. It's just too fantastical in my mind.

That leaves only one scenario; the money was buried by human intervention. Of course, this assumes that the Ingram's were telling the truth.

Millions of pieces of debris which have made the trek to T_Bar could make the same claim. It's called Innumeracy. In the case of the Cooper money there may be some mitigating factors. We just don't know all of the hydrological options in spite of the fact millions of things are brought to Tina Bar hydrologically, annually!

Human intervention does not even register on the probability scale of options. Natural forces don't talk - people do! Human intervention has about the same probability as Tom Kaye's propeller theory!

That is why most people vote for the dredging. Its a known fact that could link the money to Tina Bar, in the form the money was found at Tina Bar. 

 

The flaw with this argument/analogy is that it ignores several remarkable facts including:

1) There were three independent packets of money found stacked upon each other.
2) There were rubber bands still intact which provide an excellent barometer for a number of parameters that the packets could not exceed.
3) The money find represents a small portion of the total package that we know existed (other money, bank bag, Cooper's body, parachutes, attache case, etc.)...not a single piece of any of these other items have been found.
4) Money is valuable, therefore, it is highly unlikely anyone saw the packets until they were discovered meaning that they were completely hidden from view for nine years.

The money find, all things considered, cannot be fairly compared to a random log or piece of debris that ends up on Tena Bar.

No.1: Three intact bundles together may indicate these three bundles were in the presence of other Cooper bundles when three bundles got separated from the rest? We know that the serial numbers in these bundles were in the same order as when given to Cooper. What we dont know is how and when three bundles got separated from the rest of the money, if it did, and how it could have been transported to Tina Bar except by the dredging. Three bundles intact making there way to Tina Bar by some hydrological process is virtually as impossible as your two shoes lost in Seattle made their way to Tina Bar as a pair also!  ;D     

No. 2 above is false, and meaningless.

No.3 is irrelevant.

No.4 seems true. Whatever process put three bundles on Tina Bar must also cover them up from view - that seems likely. There are only a few processes that could do that. Planting and burial is one of those options, but very unlikely for other very sound reasons in evidence.

I don't buy it.

The three packets being found together is significant. It is not reasonable to assume that three independent packets could arrive together via dredge or float-down method. By the way, I'm not buying the "one bundle" theory either...no proof.

The rubber bands aren't meaningless. I'm expected to believe that these rubber bands remained intact after these packets were sent through a dredge pipe. No way. Not to mention, they were obviously "set" and undisturbed for many years before discovery otherwise they would have broken off the packets.

How is not finding anything else meaningless? If the packets were somehow protected by the bag and the rest of the cash, where is the bag and cash? They just disappeared? They somehow got washed downstream but the three packed stayed?

We're just going to have to disagree about the money find. Again, I put the odds at one in one-trillion to end up on Tena by natural means.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3983 on: October 02, 2018, 02:16:03 PM »
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Anecdotal data on rubber band aging.

I was going through some old files last weekend, tossing papers that are no longer needed. I came upon a file folder that I am am 100% sure hadn't opened since 1980. In it were two loose rubber bands, apparently of identical dimensions. They were in an accordion (expandable) paper file folder and the folder was in a Rubbermaid plastic tote bin. Not hermetically sealed but well protected from UV.

See photos. One rubber band was in like new condition, supple, stretchy, no signs of discoloring, oxidation or decay. The other, stored in the same folder, was badly discolored, had lost almost all elasticity, and would obviously break if the slightest force were applied to it.

Puzzling. Different mfrs? Different compositions?

377

Its interesting you bring this up. Again, we did contact US Treasury and communicated with the Forensic Div. The upshot of that was we received a few photos of old money sent in for replacement and of course there were rubber bands in just about every photo. And a huge discrepancy between the conditions of these bands! That caught our attention immediately. I think any bands that have been outside and absorbed UV are deteriorated. Bands that were kept inside show a wide variation in condition but some of these are exactly how you describe your bands! Bands on money that was stored inside but went through floods etc were generally deteriorated.

This whole story people peddle about the Ingram bands is being peddled by people who literally know nothing about rubber band chemistry! The whole discussion is fucked up and idiotic in the xtreme! But you are NEVER going to get people to change or stop inventing new alternate realities they insist is "the real truth"! Its crazy.

You reach a point where there is no point in posting facts or actual evidence in this packages-bundles-parcels-packets blah blah alternate universe.  I think Kaye is not the final word on rubber bands, to put it mildly. Your bands are one such demonstration and Im glad you spoke up and posted it ...

ps: one thing Tom and I would agree on is that exposure to UV (outside in nature) starts the clock on rubber band deterioration and speeds it up. Tom citesan example where some govt agency used rubber bands to measure pollution (SO2, UV, CO2, etc...) in urban areas. That is absolutely correct. Why rubber bands?  Because their chemistry makes them very sensitive UV/pollution detectors and they react instantaneously due to their sulfur-polymer bond. The FBI made a big mistake not separating out any band specimens for lab work -
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 02:36:08 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3984 on: October 02, 2018, 02:20:25 PM »
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At some point it comes down to considering what's involved with each scenario. I just do not believe a bundle of cash is, by some natural manner, going to end up washing ashore on Tena Bar, self burying, then get discovered nine years later. I think that the odds of such an occurrence are one-in-a-trillion at best all things considered.

Likewise, the dredge theory strikes me as equally implausible. It's just too fantastical in my mind.

That leaves only one scenario; the money was buried by human intervention. Of course, this assumes that the Ingram's were telling the truth.

Millions of pieces of debris which have made the trek to T_Bar could make the same claim. It's called Innumeracy. In the case of the Cooper money there may be some mitigating factors. We just don't know all of the hydrological options in spite of the fact millions of things are brought to Tina Bar hydrologically, annually!

Human intervention does not even register on the probability scale of options. Natural forces don't talk - people do! Human intervention has about the same probability as Tom Kaye's propeller theory!

That is why most people vote for the dredging. Its a known fact that could link the money to Tina Bar, in the form the money was found at Tina Bar. 

 

The flaw with this argument/analogy is that it ignores several remarkable facts including:

1) There were three independent packets of money found stacked upon each other.
2) There were rubber bands still intact which provide an excellent barometer for a number of parameters that the packets could not exceed.
3) The money find represents a small portion of the total package that we know existed (other money, bank bag, Cooper's body, parachutes, attache case, etc.)...not a single piece of any of these other items have been found.
4) Money is valuable, therefore, it is highly unlikely anyone saw the packets until they were discovered meaning that they were completely hidden from view for nine years.

The money find, all things considered, cannot be fairly compared to a random log or piece of debris that ends up on Tena Bar.

No.1: Three intact bundles together may indicate these three bundles were in the presence of other Cooper bundles when three bundles got separated from the rest? We know that the serial numbers in these bundles were in the same order as when given to Cooper. What we dont know is how and when three bundles got separated from the rest of the money, if it did, and how it could have been transported to Tina Bar except by the dredging. Three bundles intact making there way to Tina Bar by some hydrological process is virtually as impossible as your two shoes lost in Seattle made their way to Tina Bar as a pair also!  ;D     

No. 2 above is false, and meaningless.

No.3 is irrelevant.

No.4 seems true. Whatever process put three bundles on Tina Bar must also cover them up from view - that seems likely. There are only a few processes that could do that. Planting and burial is one of those options, but very unlikely for other very sound reasons in evidence.

I don't buy it.

The three packets being found together is significant. It is not reasonable to assume that three independent packets could arrive together via dredge or float-down method. By the way, I'm not buying the "one bundle" theory either...no proof.

The rubber bands aren't meaningless. I'm expected to believe that these rubber bands remained intact after these packets were sent through a dredge pipe. No way. Not to mention, they were obviously "set" and undisturbed for many years before discovery otherwise they would have broken off the packets.

How is not finding anything else meaningless? If the packets were somehow protected by the bag and the rest of the cash, where is the bag and cash? They just disappeared? They somehow got washed downstream but the three packed stayed?

We're just going to have to disagree about the money find. Again, I put the odds at one in one-trillion to end up on Tena by natural means.

Please inform the trillions of pieces of debris that have wound up a Tina Bar by natural means - they should all depart immediately. They should all meet tonight at 8:00pm at the Racoon Bar for re-assignments in Alternate Reality! I think we will send them all to Illinois!  Yepper! And a partridge in a pear tree too.

 
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3985 on: October 02, 2018, 03:21:16 PM »
Just a quick added fact regarding rubber bands. Any fisherman will understand a common practice when packing away your fishing pole and reel after a fishing trip or moving to another spot. I always use a rubber band to secure my line from unraveling and causing me to reset up my Trout outfit for next fishing trip or spot.  Guess what happens to the rubber bands that have been exposed to the water and great outdoors ! They of course don’t last very long before becoming brittle and are worthless as they crumble. Needless to say that rubber bands exposed to water and other outdoor elements won’t survive as long as rubber bands stored inside a filing cabinet or sealed envelopes. Eight plus years in water ? Wow ! I agree with Georger about doing some experiments.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3986 on: October 02, 2018, 04:59:34 PM »
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I will bring my Cooper 20 to the symposium so attendees can get an up-close look at it. It is badly decayed, much of the outer area is missing, has the holes as seen in other T Bar 20s,  but the entire SN is readable. I'll also bring my SeaFirst money bag. Might bring my NB 8 Cooper rig and maybe even a chest reserve.

377

Bring It All, I say! Always good to have tangible stuff to see, touch, and discuss.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3987 on: October 02, 2018, 05:19:40 PM »
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Just a quick added fact regarding rubber bands. Any fisherman will understand a common practice when packing away your fishing pole and reel after a fishing trip or moving to another spot. I always use a rubber band to secure my line from unraveling and causing me to reset up my Trout outfit for next fishing trip or spot.  Guess what happens to the rubber bands that have been exposed to the water and great outdoors ! They of course don’t last very long before becoming brittle and are worthless as they crumble. Needless to say that rubber bands exposed to water and other outdoor elements won’t survive as long as rubber bands stored inside a filing cabinet or sealed envelopes. Eight plus years in water ? Wow ! I agree with Georger about doing some experiments.

This is part of my point. Are we supposed to believe that the bills were submerged in the Columbia for nearly four years, then violently dredged off the bottom, then bulldozed to some location on Tena Bar all the while some magical super-duper-rubber-bands stay intact? It's laughable.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Kermit

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3988 on: October 02, 2018, 06:05:44 PM »
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Just a quick added fact regarding rubber bands. Any fisherman will understand a common practice when packing away your fishing pole and reel after a fishing trip or moving to another spot. I always use a rubber band to secure my line from unraveling and causing me to reset up my Trout outfit for next fishing trip or spot.  Guess what happens to the rubber bands that have been exposed to the water and great outdoors ! They of course don’t last very long before becoming brittle and are worthless as they crumble. Needless to say that rubber bands exposed to water and other outdoor elements won’t survive as long as rubber bands stored inside a filing cabinet or sealed envelopes. Eight plus years in water ? Wow ! I agree with Georger about doing some experiments.

This is part of my point. Are we supposed to believe that the bills were submerged in the Columbia for nearly four years, then violently dredged off the bottom, then bulldozed to some location on Tena Bar all the while some magical super-duper-rubber-bands stay intact? It's laughable.

I guess I should clarify. When I go to use my fishing poles maybe 6 months later, the rubber bands are still intact ! They are exactly where I placed them ! However as soon as I try to unwind them from the base of my pole, they crumble and have no elasticity left. It’s truly a mystery but I don’t find your theory to be laughable nor do I find the dredge theory to be laughable ! All I know for sure is the money found at Tina Bar was indeed the Cooper ransom Money. Where’s everything else ? Another mystery ! JMHO
 
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Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3989 on: October 02, 2018, 11:13:23 PM »
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Anyone see a similarity between the objects in these two photos? Why is it when you look at photos of old decayed buried money on the internet (of which there are hundreds), you almost never see bills that have the shapes these bills do ?

BTW, the speed of Columbia water as it goes by Tina Bar is approx 2ft per second.*

*hydrologist, James Bradley USGS

Georger,

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply. Apologies for the long delay – been a long couple of weeks here.  Hospitals, funerals and such.

I understand your theory – that the money’s edges were rounded off by river action similar to pebbles in a stream.  I still remember Ms. Krugler teaching us about geology and the different types of rock, and what happens when they erode, especially in a riverbed.  That lesson is where I first learned that everything is temporary, even mountains.  Big lesson.  Similarly, I remember learning about the solar system, where a massive core was orbited by smaller satellites, so when I learned shortly after that electrons orbited more massive nuclei, I got super-excited thinking that there might be solar systems in every atom that made us up.  Whaddya want, I was in elementary school.

Your observation is a good one.  The cash is rounded, no doubt about it.  My question is whether it is rounded two-dimensionally or three-dimensionally.  Take a look at this set of images:




This comes from a scientific experiment to observe the rounding action of a river on rock.  They started out with a three-dimensional rectangle, similar in shape to a brick of cash.  Over time, the corners rounded down.  So the figure to the right does appear similar to the Ingram money in a strictly two-dimensional way.  When you look close, you can see that the original top surface is still there, closest to the viewer, albeit shrunken. 

Here’s another graphic from the same study:




From that top edge, the matter slopes downward toward the sides, truly rounding it.  If you could slice the rock into $20 bills, with Jackson’s face looking at us, you would find that the top bill would be the smallest and roundest in shape, while the bottom bill would be the largest and most rectangular.

Here’s a side view, using a different geometric shape:




Notice that the bottom edge has stayed flat.  This means that a bundle of bills that was rounded by river action and was missing all of its printed corners could not have been lying on any of the edges, otherwise we would have one side of the bills intact.  None are there.  For this theory to hold, the Ingram bills would have to have settled and rested on their “front” or “back” billfaces.  And if that was the case, we would see the top bills missing significantly more material than the bottom bills. The FBI would easily have been able to figure out, much like a Fisher Price ring-stacking toy, which bills went where in the stack when the Ingrams found it.  They did not.

Additional caveats to the river-rounding theory:
-   Tom Kaye’s observation about the cash fanning out in water
-   The stacking of the bills in the sand having been askew (contested by some)
-   The protective bag theory. For this rounding action to work, the money has to be exposed to a water flow. This means it’s not in a bag. If it’s in the bag, and the bag kept the cash together upon relocation by dredge, then the dredge did not relocate the shards all over the beach. It’s one or the other.
-   The rubber bands were not removed by this erosion, nor by a dredge that supposedly shredded much of the cash.

For these reasons, I believe that the cash arrived in its present condition by a process that selected the edges of the billfaces for removal, and the only method that has been able to satisfy me so far is human. A human would bury money/evidence, a human would stack the packets neatly, a human would have a reason to cut these bills two-dimensionally, a group of humans would trample shards all through the sand, a human would have the means to transport the money way out of the drop zone, a human would demand the ransom in the first place.

I hope that you don’t take any offense to my opposition to your thoughts on the money, and I welcome any and all counterpoints as part of seeking the truth.

Brian