Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1200508 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3885 on: September 19, 2018, 11:33:09 PM »
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Himmelsbach was at the dig?

Yes he was there but didnt stay ... Dorwin got pulled on day2 due to an emergency.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3886 on: September 19, 2018, 11:42:22 PM »
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"So where did the mid-sized pieces go?"

Is it me, or does this look like someone jigsawed them all together? Maybe that's where they went - all pieces back together like puzzles and mounted for sale...

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They were sent to DC, agents say.

The plastic boxes Tom saw at Seattle are very like debris from evidence folders the bills were originally stored in. Remember the total bills all in evidence folders were split by the Court, some given to Ingram, some to the Insurance company. According to one agent these folders were full of money pieces and tiny debris. Brian's bills he received were given to him in original evidence folders the money had been stored in at Seattle. He still has those folders today. I have a photo of them somewhere. His folders have debris in them identical to what is in the plastic boxes Tom saw in Seattle.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 11:52:26 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3887 on: September 19, 2018, 11:48:14 PM »
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"So where did the mid-sized pieces go?"

Is it me, or does this look like someone jigsawed them all together? Maybe that's where they went - all pieces back together like puzzles and mounted for sale...

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What mid-sized pieces? The news footage shows that the largest piece found was about the size of a quarter. A few other pieces were about the size of a nickle or dime. These pieces could have ended up with Brian, Global or the FBI.

Everything found at TBar was sent in to DC for analysis or storage.

This piece is larger than a quarter.  That is Dorwin Schreuder's hand, not the guy in red plaid shirt you keep identifying as being close to the Ingram find. Dorwin was close to the shoreline.

BTW: that evidence envelope Dorwin is holding was affectionately called a 'check envelope' by agents. All of these check envelopes were turned over to Seattle and sent in to DC for analysis. (source: 5 agents).
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:00:31 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3888 on: September 19, 2018, 11:50:07 PM »
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When I say mid-sized, I am referring to the nickel, dime or quarter-sized pieces that Dorwin has talked about, and is seen placing into a plasticine envelope on the KATU video.

Does Brian have them? I don't think so. We should ask him.

Global? Hmmm. I don't know. In fact, I have no idea where their stack and a half of bills is, presently.

FBI? If they had it and it was in Seattle, TK most likely would have seen it and Larry would have known about it. Since both claim the little plastic boxes are the totality, that suggests there is no known depository of mid-sized shards.

Hence, I suspect Himmelsbach, or the Portland Division took them. I wonder if Dorwin can shed any light on this dimension of the T-Bar find? This latter potential has precedence as Red Campbell took most of the stuff to Las Vegas and only gave Seattle a little. Cigarette butts anyone?

The FBI has possession of plenty of those size pieces--you can see that on the DB Cooper Wikipedia page and the image of Cooper's money.

The others may well be with Brian or Global. Someone may be able to ask Brian about his stash. Global...good luck.

As for Himmelsbach stealing some of these items...hard for me to believe that, but, who knows.

Remember, Tom and I spent the greater part of two years 'talking to Brian, negotiating with Brian, etc' .... 
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 11:55:11 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3889 on: September 20, 2018, 12:13:27 AM »
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"So where did the mid-sized pieces go?"

Is it me, or does this look like someone jigsawed them all together? Maybe that's where they went - all pieces back together like puzzles and mounted for sale...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

What mid-sized pieces? The news footage shows that the largest piece found was about the size of a quarter. A few other pieces were about the size of a nickle or dime. These pieces could have ended up with Brian, Global or the FBI.

Everything found at TBar was sent in to DC for analysis or storage.

This piece is larger than a quarter.  That is Dorwin Schreuder's hand, not the guy in red plaid shirt you keep identifying as being close to the Ingram find. Dorwin was close to the shoreline.

BTW: that evidence envelope Dorwin is holding was affectionately called a 'check envelope' by agents. All of these check envelopes were turned over to Seattle and sent in to DC for analysis. (source: 5 agents).

Yes I'm familiar with this piece (the largest piece found)...it was shown to the reporter and is almost a complete circle with one edge shaved straight across. Dorwin wasn't digging, he just showed these pieces to the reporter and discussed the dig--he was wearing a sweater (or sport coat), tie and white overcoat during the interview. Furthermore, he was standing with the reporter between the river and the Ingram money find spot about 10 feet away.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 12:24:33 AM by EU »
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Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3890 on: September 20, 2018, 12:23:43 AM »
Of interest to me, and noteworthy as a Sheridan believer, the money find spot was near the base of a smaller tree...in his book, Sheridan talks about discarding the items he jumped with near the base of a tree. One of many similarities to the Cooper case and episodes in Sheridan's book.
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Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3891 on: September 20, 2018, 02:17:05 AM »
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"So where did the mid-sized pieces go?"

Is it me, or does this look like someone jigsawed them all together? Maybe that's where they went - all pieces back together like puzzles and mounted for sale...

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

What mid-sized pieces? The news footage shows that the largest piece found was about the size of a quarter. A few other pieces were about the size of a nickle or dime. These pieces could have ended up with Brian, Global or the FBI.

Everything found at TBar was sent in to DC for analysis or storage.

This piece is larger than a quarter.  That is Dorwin Schreuder's hand, not the guy in red plaid shirt you keep identifying as being close to the Ingram find. Dorwin was close to the shoreline.

BTW: that evidence envelope Dorwin is holding was affectionately called a 'check envelope' by agents. All of these check envelopes were turned over to Seattle and sent in to DC for analysis. (source: 5 agents).

Yes I'm familiar with this piece (the largest piece found)...it was shown to the reporter and is almost a complete circle with one edge shaved straight across. Dorwin wasn't digging, he just showed these pieces to the reporter and discussed the dig--he was wearing a sweater (or sport coat), tie and white overcoat during the interview. Furthermore, he was standing with the reporter between the river and the Ingram money find spot about 10 feet away.

Its the measurement Im not sure of. Here's a frame from the helo view. The sections laid out by Dorwin were 20ft apart - that provides a scale, as marked. I also marked Shutter's leaning tree he has used as a reference point. Based on the 20ft scale the distance from shoreline to Ingram find is approx 40ft, which is also correct. I have no idea what day this photo was taken - I dont see Palmer's trench or a backhoe in the frame. But this photo gives us something of a scaled image in which to place events?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 02:18:18 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3892 on: September 20, 2018, 03:07:44 PM »
Just finished talking to Dorwin and another agent - at length. I asked a number of very specific questions. I am super busy today so will be back later tonight at my usual time: ~10:15pm CDT. Thanks.
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3893 on: September 20, 2018, 03:15:21 PM »
 I was looking over the Cooper bills and noticed something…all things considered they appear to be in pretty good condition. In other words, they’re not discolored or warped. They are not simply balls of pulp or mush. In fact, we have individual crisp bills white in color and still quite legible, even the finest detail.

This got me thinking, if the cash had been submerged on the bottom of the Columbia River, embedded in muck for three years, then violently sucked off the river bottom and deposited on Tena Bar in a mess of slurry, wouldn’t they look much worse?

We have seen experiments involving burying money in sand for a period of time. The hope being that these experiments would help answer how the money arrived on Tena Bar—buried by Cooper, dredge theory, etc. That said, we can attack this problem from another direction.

Why not submerge a packet of cash, in the Columbia, for three years? Is it not possible that after three years we’d be left with little more than a discolored blob of pulp that would be difficult to identify as individual, clearly legible, bills like the Cooper cash? If it does this would put to rest the dredge theory, would it not?

When I’m in Portland for the conference I’m going to start such an experiment. Ironically, the results, ready in three years, would be just in time for the 50th Anniversary of the hijacking and the 2021 DB Cooper Conference. To that end, if anyone has any suggestions or input to make certain that the experiment is carried out properly please let me know.
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3894 on: September 20, 2018, 04:36:06 PM »
Sounds good, EU. BTW: did those packets of money ever get buried or examined at the island just upstream from T-Bar? Where the marina is? Shut, weren't you involved with this?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3895 on: September 20, 2018, 05:30:17 PM »
Money is not paper, or pulp..it will survive easily in the water for several years to a decade..NMIwrecks is a diver who dives ship wrecks..he believes the cold water will also help the money..he believes there is no doubt the money can last a long time under water and has seen cases that have...
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3896 on: September 20, 2018, 05:41:47 PM »
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Money is not paper, or pulp..it will survive easily in the water for several years to a decade..NMIwrecks is a diver who dives ship wrecks..he believes the cold water will also help the money..he believes there is no doubt the money can last a long time under water and has seen cases that have...

Then why is it that the money rotted to the degree it had considering it was in a less hostile sand environment?

I have a hard time accepting that the money and rubber bands would survive for years largely preserved on the bottom of the Columbia River--which also has a fair amount of industrial waste in it and is the reason dredge spoils are no longer put on the beach--yet after six years buried in sand, without oxygen, it would rot to the degree it had. These bills, and rubber bands, are not infallible.

I think an experiment such as this would tell us a lot.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 05:45:51 PM by EU »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3897 on: September 20, 2018, 05:46:16 PM »
several things to consider...if the money was still in the bag it's protected even more..NMI said the sand and silt along with cool temps would help the money more than hurting it..I believe he stated that currency has been found in old ship wrecks confirming his statements...I can email and have him pop on so he can explain it in his words...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3898 on: September 20, 2018, 05:48:47 PM »
All testing is valuable....
 

Offline EU

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #3899 on: September 20, 2018, 05:50:58 PM »
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several things to consider...if the money was still in the bag it's protected even more..NMI said the sand and silt along with cool temps would help the money more than hurting it..I believe he stated that currency has been found in old ship wrecks confirming his statements...I can email and have him pop on so he can explain it in his words...

He says that he has actually found currency in old ship wrecks? Currency that is cotton/linen like our currency of today? Yes, I would be very interested to here about this from him.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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