Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1202861 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #2625 on:** February 02, 2017, 10:47:21 PM »

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Shutter · « **Reply #2626 on:** February 02, 2017, 10:51:43 PM »

Here is the email he sent me last year...

Hi Dave,

In answer to your questions:

- I'm now aware there are not D-rings on the parachute he used, but was not aware of this in March when I wrote the article. This is OK, since I explained that he rigged a harness from suspension line for the money bag, so D-rings were not needed in this case as it turned out.
- I believe "DB Cooper" planted the money in the river bed (during late 1970's) as a way to "toy" with law enforcement and to spark media interest in the case once again.

Regarding the change in A/C handling that was used to determine the time he parachuted:

I talked to an individual on a number of occasions who I believe participated in the covert B-727 operations in SE Asia. He would answer all my questions except the direct question if he was a member of the covert group. His response to that question was that I, as an FBI agent, knew there are some classified matters that can't be discussed. Yes, he may have been feeding me a line of bull. Anyways, he did provide very, very detailed info on how the 727 responded during the rear exit events. Much but not all of his details I was able to corroborate during the past couple of years. To date, none of the info he provided that I tried to corroborate, has turned out to be incorrect. What I found most revealing was his being in agreement with my theory that the momentary change in A/C handling, used to identify the area believed as the drop zone, could have easily been staged as a diversion.

I hope this information is of some help to you.

Regards,
Greg Hall
Boulder City, NV
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sailshaw · « **Reply #2627 on:** February 03, 2017, 09:38:19 AM »

Shutter you say: "we have a lot of new evidence surfacing, so maybe this thing can be solved.."

I say "It is being covered-up by the Seattle FBI Curtis Eng as they don't want to solve the DB Case. I gave them all they needed to solve it with the FLAW I found in Sheridan Peterson's phony alibi as to where he was at the time of Norjak. His lie to the FBI was that he was delivering one of his two children born in Nepal. However, none were born in the same year as Norjak (1971) as the son was born the year before and the daughter the year after Norjak per public records from persopo.com"

The reason for the FBI cover-up? Was Sheridan working for the CIA in Vietnam and exempt from FBI investigation?

Bob Sailshaw
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Robert99 · « **Reply #2628 on:** February 03, 2017, 11:07:23 AM »

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Shutter you say: "we have a lot of new evidence surfacing, so maybe this thing can be solved.."

I say "It is being covered-up by the Seattle FBI Curtis Eng as they don't want to solve the DB Case. I gave them all they needed to solve it with the FLAW I found in Sheridan Peterson's phony alibi as to where he was at the time of Norjak. His lie to the FBI was that he was delivering one of his two children born in Nepal. However, none were born in the same year as Norjak (1971) as the son was born the year before and the daughter the year after Norjak per public records from persopo.com"

The reason for the FBI cover-up? Was Sheridan working for the CIA in Vietnam and exempt from FBI investigation?

Bob Sailshaw
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There is plenty of evidence of an FBI cover-up in the Cooper hijacking, but not for the reason you mention.

MarkBennett · « **Reply #2629 on:** February 03, 2017, 11:50:06 AM »

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Shutter you say: "we have a lot of new evidence surfacing, so maybe this thing can be solved.."

I say "It is being covered-up by the Seattle FBI Curtis Eng as they don't want to solve the DB Case. I gave them all they needed to solve it with the FLAW I found in Sheridan Peterson's phony alibi as to where he was at the time of Norjak. His lie to the FBI was that he was delivering one of his two children born in Nepal. However, none were born in the same year as Norjak (1971) as the son was born the year before and the daughter the year after Norjak per public records from persopo.com"

The reason for the FBI cover-up? Was Sheridan working for the CIA in Vietnam and exempt from FBI investigation?

Bob Sailshaw
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There is plenty of evidence of an FBI cover-up in the Cooper hijacking, but not for the reason you mention.

What do you think there is cover-up? To hide screw ups or things that would make someone look bad?

FLYJACK · « **Reply #2630 on:** February 03, 2017, 12:04:32 PM »

The FBI mandate is/was a prosecution and that conflicts with the public interest in a solve.

Since the chance of a prosecution now is nil the FBI dropped the case.

I don't see a solve without a DNA/print match to the tie.. that doesn't require FBI resources but it does require their co-operation

Robert99 · « **Reply #2631 on:** February 03, 2017, 12:37:08 PM »

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Shutter you say: "we have a lot of new evidence surfacing, so maybe this thing can be solved.."

I say "It is being covered-up by the Seattle FBI Curtis Eng as they don't want to solve the DB Case. I gave them all they needed to solve it with the FLAW I found in Sheridan Peterson's phony alibi as to where he was at the time of Norjak. His lie to the FBI was that he was delivering one of his two children born in Nepal. However, none were born in the same year as Norjak (1971) as the son was born the year before and the daughter the year after Norjak per public records from persopo.com"

The reason for the FBI cover-up? Was Sheridan working for the CIA in Vietnam and exempt from FBI investigation?

Bob Sailshaw
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There is plenty of evidence of an FBI cover-up in the Cooper hijacking, but not for the reason you mention.

What do you think there is cover-up? To hide screw ups or things that would make someone look bad?

The 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC transcripts are, by themselves, proof of a cover-up. Those redactions completely eliminated the possibility of accurately determining the flight path of the airliner while it was under control of the Seattle ATC. The same information that was redacted was broadcast live during the hijacking and was widely heard by anyone in the Pacific Northwest with an aviation VHF radio receiver.

The FAA did not have a reason for redacting the transcripts since they routinely released full transcripts as a part of FAA incident/accident investigations. Only the FBI would have a reason to redact those transcripts and to continue to do so.

As far as making someone look bad, take a look at Sailshaw's posts of today and earlier. Others have made comments along the same line.

georger · « **Reply #2632 on:** February 03, 2017, 12:56:23 PM »

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Shutter you say: "we have a lot of new evidence surfacing, so maybe this thing can be solved.."

I say "It is being covered-up by the Seattle FBI Curtis Eng as they don't want to solve the DB Case. I gave them all they needed to solve it with the FLAW I found in Sheridan Peterson's phony alibi as to where he was at the time of Norjak. His lie to the FBI was that he was delivering one of his two children born in Nepal. However, none were born in the same year as Norjak (1971) as the son was born the year before and the daughter the year after Norjak per public records from persopo.com"

The reason for the FBI cover-up? Was Sheridan working for the CIA in Vietnam and exempt from FBI investigation?

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There is plenty of evidence of an FBI cover-up in the Cooper hijacking, but not for the reason you mention.

What do you think there is cover-up? To hide screw ups or things that would make someone look bad?

The 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC transcripts are, by themselves, proof of a cover-up. Those redactions completely eliminated the possibility of accurately determining the flight path of the airliner while it was under control of the Seattle ATC. The same information that was redacted was broadcast live during the hijacking and was widely heard by anyone in the Pacific Northwest with an aviation VHF radio receiver.

The FAA did not have a reason for redacting the transcripts since they routinely released full transcripts as a part of FAA incident/accident investigations. Only the FBI would have a reason to redact those transcripts and to continue to do so.

As far as making someone look bad, take a look at Sailshaw's posts of today and earlier. Others have made comments along the same line.

Did you discuss this with Amanda, Josh, and the Travel Channel people?

EVickiW · « **Reply #2633 on:** February 03, 2017, 01:18:53 PM »

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The FBI mandate is/was a prosecution and that conflicts with the public interest in a solve.

Since the chance of a prosecution now is nil the FBI dropped the case.

I don't see a solve without a DNA/print match to the tie.. that doesn't require FBI resources but it does require their co-operation

I am still hoping the cigarette butts will be found in one of the evidence rooms. That would get Cooper's DNA.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #2634 on:** February 03, 2017, 01:38:32 PM »

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The FBI mandate is/was a prosecution and that conflicts with the public interest in a solve.

Since the chance of a prosecution now is nil the FBI dropped the case.

I don't see a solve without a DNA/print match to the tie.. that doesn't require FBI resources but it does require their co-operation

I am still hoping the cigarette butts will be found in one of the evidence rooms. That would get Cooper's DNA.

YES, the cigarette butts, I gave up on those.

Does anybody think there is anyway to convince the FBI to allow an accredited lab with modern techniques to analyze the tie for DNA if they didn't have to pay for it?

Robert99 · « **Reply #2635 on:** February 03, 2017, 01:50:10 PM »

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Shutter you say: "we have a lot of new evidence surfacing, so maybe this thing can be solved.."

I say "It is being covered-up by the Seattle FBI Curtis Eng as they don't want to solve the DB Case. I gave them all they needed to solve it with the FLAW I found in Sheridan Peterson's phony alibi as to where he was at the time of Norjak. His lie to the FBI was that he was delivering one of his two children born in Nepal. However, none were born in the same year as Norjak (1971) as the son was born the year before and the daughter the year after Norjak per public records from persopo.com"

The reason for the FBI cover-up? Was Sheridan working for the CIA in Vietnam and exempt from FBI investigation?

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There is plenty of evidence of an FBI cover-up in the Cooper hijacking, but not for the reason you mention.

What do you think there is cover-up? To hide screw ups or things that would make someone look bad?

The 19 redactions in the Seattle ATC transcripts are, by themselves, proof of a cover-up. Those redactions completely eliminated the possibility of accurately determining the flight path of the airliner while it was under control of the Seattle ATC. The same information that was redacted was broadcast live during the hijacking and was widely heard by anyone in the Pacific Northwest with an aviation VHF radio receiver.

The FAA did not have a reason for redacting the transcripts since they routinely released full transcripts as a part of FAA incident/accident investigations. Only the FBI would have a reason to redact those transcripts and to continue to do so.

As far as making someone look bad, take a look at Sailshaw's posts of today and earlier. Others have made comments along the same line.

Did you discuss this with Amanda, Josh, and the Travel Channel people?

There was not a detailed conversation about the transcripts, but it should have been clearly understood by everyone connected with the episode that at least Meyer and I were of the opinion that Cooper landed near the money find at Tina Bar. In my personal case, in addition to the one question to me that was filmed and included in the episode, several more questions were asked and filmed of me and included the specific flight path in the Tina Bar area, the FBI search of Caterpillar Island, etc.. Perhaps Meyer can elaborate on this.

There was also filming at the money find location but none of it made it into the episode as broadcast.

I should also add that my experiences with the FBI and FAA FOIA requests, including two Congressional interventions with those agencies, are included in Part 5, NWA 305 FLIGHT PATH ANALYSIS - REVISTED, posted on July 22, 2016. This thread also contains a highly detailed analysis of the airliner flight path and all radio transcripts that are available. This information was available to the TV people and several of them were members of this thread.

EVickiW · « **Reply #2636 on:** February 03, 2017, 01:52:44 PM »

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The FBI mandate is/was a prosecution and that conflicts with the public interest in a solve.

Since the chance of a prosecution now is nil the FBI dropped the case.

I don't see a solve without a DNA/print match to the tie.. that doesn't require FBI resources but it does require their co-operation

I am still hoping the cigarette butts will be found in one of the evidence rooms. That would get Cooper's DNA.

YES, the cigarette butts, I gave up on those.

Does anybody think there is anyway to convince the FBI to allow an accredited lab with modern techniques to analyze the tie for DNA if they didn't have to pay for it?

I tried that angle through my Liaison at the Department of Justice National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NAMUS) site. They wanted and would have paid to analyze the existing DNA samples on the tie to DNA in the NAMUS DNA database.

My Liaison was given the brush off.

Here is the email chain:

Agent Eng,
Please accept this as my formal request to request the FBI lab to compare the DNA samples you have of D.B. Cooper, with the samples that the University of N. Texas has with one Melvin Wilson, UNT missing person MP# 15178.
This potential match has been requested before, but was not responded to.
Your assistance with this comparison would be greatly appreciated.

J....... F......
Regional Systems Administrator
National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Web : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
NamUs @ UNT Health Science Center
3500 Camp Bowie Blvd.
Ft. Worth, Texas 76107
ORI:TX220035Y

And...the reply from Seattle:

From: Dietrich, Ayn S. [You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:32 PM
To: Franson, Janet
Cc: Eng, Curtis J.
Subject: RE: Request DNA comparison ref D.B. Cooper

Hello, Ms. F...........—

I work with Special Agent Eng in the FBI Seattle field office and I handle inquiries from the media and public. SA Eng forwarded me your email so I could explain to you the limitations we face in responding to your inquiry.

During any given investigation, the FBI receives many tips, follows many leads, and talks to many people. In accordance with DOJ policy, we cannot discuss details of ongoing investigations. This includes not disclosing subjects considered and/or excluded, and investigative techniques that may be used. I understand the public and valued partners to the FBI are curious about the FBI's investigative process, and they may rest assured that the FBI pursues all leads that we believe will provide us with information of investigative value.

SA Eng has received your messages and handled them appropriately. I apologize that we are unable to disclose the nature and extent of our investigative response.

Regards,
Ayn

———————————————
Ayn Sandalo Dietrich
Public Affairs, FBI Seattle
206-262-2390

So....if you try this angle, or something similar, I wish you luck.

edited to add.....Sorry shutter...seems like we have drifted off topic. I did not realize this question I responded to was in Tina Bar Money Find.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #2637 on:** February 03, 2017, 02:22:03 PM »

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The FBI mandate is/was a prosecution and that conflicts with the public interest in a solve.

Since the chance of a prosecution now is nil the FBI dropped the case.

I don't see a solve without a DNA/print match to the tie.. that doesn't require FBI resources but it does require their co-operation

I am still hoping the cigarette butts will be found in one of the evidence rooms. That would get Cooper's DNA.

YES, the cigarette butts, I gave up on those.

Does anybody think there is anyway to convince the FBI to allow an accredited lab with modern techniques to analyze the tie for DNA if they didn't have to pay for it?

I tried that angle through my Liaison at the Department of Justice National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NAMUS) site. They wanted and would have paid to analyze the existing DNA samples on the tie to DNA in the NAMUS DNA database.

My Liaison was given the brush off.

Here is the email chain:

Agent Eng,
Please accept this as my formal request to request the FBI lab to compare the DNA samples you have of D.B. Cooper, with the samples that the University of N. Texas has with one Melvin Wilson, UNT missing person MP# 15178.
This potential match has been requested before, but was not responded to.
Your assistance with this comparison would be greatly appreciated.

J....... F......
Regional Systems Administrator
National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Web : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
NamUs @ UNT Health Science Center
3500 Camp Bowie Blvd.
Ft. Worth, Texas 76107
ORI:TX220035Y

And...the reply from Seattle:

From: Dietrich, Ayn S. [You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:32 PM
To: Franson, Janet
Cc: Eng, Curtis J.
Subject: RE: Request DNA comparison ref D.B. Cooper

Hello, Ms. F...........—

I work with Special Agent Eng in the FBI Seattle field office and I handle inquiries from the media and public. SA Eng forwarded me your email so I could explain to you the limitations we face in responding to your inquiry.

During any given investigation, the FBI receives many tips, follows many leads, and talks to many people. In accordance with DOJ policy, we cannot discuss details of ongoing investigations. This includes not disclosing subjects considered and/or excluded, and investigative techniques that may be used. I understand the public and valued partners to the FBI are curious about the FBI's investigative process, and they may rest assured that the FBI pursues all leads that we believe will provide us with information of investigative value.

SA Eng has received your messages and handled them appropriately. I apologize that we are unable to disclose the nature and extent of our investigative response.

Regards,
Ayn

———————————————
Ayn Sandalo Dietrich
Public Affairs, FBI Seattle
206-262-2390

So....if you try this angle, or something similar, I wish you luck.

edited to add.....Sorry shutter...seems like we have drifted off topic. I did not realize this question I responded to was in Tina Bar Money Find.

That really sums up the problem, the FBI mandate is not a solve, but a prosecution. Those two things are now in conflict. Somebody with pull needs to approach the FBI on this.. we can find the $$ for testing.

Long shot, but the samples Kaye got off the tie, can they be tested for DNA..

georger · « **Reply #2638 on:** February 03, 2017, 03:40:44 PM »

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The FBI mandate is/was a prosecution and that conflicts with the public interest in a solve.

Since the chance of a prosecution now is nil the FBI dropped the case.

I don't see a solve without a DNA/print match to the tie.. that doesn't require FBI resources but it does require their co-operation

I am still hoping the cigarette butts will be found in one of the evidence rooms. That would get Cooper's DNA.

YES, the cigarette butts, I gave up on those.

Does anybody think there is anyway to convince the FBI to allow an accredited lab with modern techniques to analyze the tie for DNA if they didn't have to pay for it?

I tried that angle through my Liaison at the Department of Justice National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NAMUS) site. They wanted and would have paid to analyze the existing DNA samples on the tie to DNA in the NAMUS DNA database.

My Liaison was given the brush off.

Here is the email chain:

Agent Eng,
Please accept this as my formal request to request the FBI lab to compare the DNA samples you have of D.B. Cooper, with the samples that the University of N. Texas has with one Melvin Wilson, UNT missing person MP# 15178.
This potential match has been requested before, but was not responded to.
Your assistance with this comparison would be greatly appreciated.

J....... F......
Regional Systems Administrator
National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Web : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
NamUs @ UNT Health Science Center
3500 Camp Bowie Blvd.
Ft. Worth, Texas 76107
ORI:TX220035Y

And...the reply from Seattle:

From: Dietrich, Ayn S. [You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:32 PM
To: Franson, Janet
Cc: Eng, Curtis J.
Subject: RE: Request DNA comparison ref D.B. Cooper

Hello, Ms. F...........—

I work with Special Agent Eng in the FBI Seattle field office and I handle inquiries from the media and public. SA Eng forwarded me your email so I could explain to you the limitations we face in responding to your inquiry.

During any given investigation, the FBI receives many tips, follows many leads, and talks to many people. In accordance with DOJ policy, we cannot discuss details of ongoing investigations. This includes not disclosing subjects considered and/or excluded, and investigative techniques that may be used. I understand the public and valued partners to the FBI are curious about the FBI's investigative process, and they may rest assured that the FBI pursues all leads that we believe will provide us with information of investigative value.

SA Eng has received your messages and handled them appropriately. I apologize that we are unable to disclose the nature and extent of our investigative response.

Regards,
Ayn

———————————————
Ayn Sandalo Dietrich
Public Affairs, FBI Seattle
206-262-2390

So....if you try this angle, or something similar, I wish you luck.

edited to add.....Sorry shutter...seems like we have drifted off topic. I did not realize this question I responded to was in Tina Bar Money Find.

That really sums up the problem, the FBI mandate is not a solve, but a prosecution. Those two things are now in conflict. Somebody with pull needs to approach the FBI on this.. we can find the $$ for testing.

Long shot, but the samples Kaye got off the tie, can they be tested for DNA..

According to Kaye's latest radio interview the FBI already got 14-15 samples off the tie and tested for dna, back in 2000/2001. Kaye said tie vs tie clasp. ? $:-\$ I only hope his words were accurate?

As for your dialectic about 'solving' vs 'prosecution', people obviously have to go some distance toward collecting evidence in order to prosecute. Solving is therefore relative and implied at least as an expectation!

FLYJACK · « **Reply #2639 on:** February 03, 2017, 04:49:49 PM »

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The FBI mandate is/was a prosecution and that conflicts with the public interest in a solve.

Since the chance of a prosecution now is nil the FBI dropped the case.

I don't see a solve without a DNA/print match to the tie.. that doesn't require FBI resources but it does require their co-operation

I am still hoping the cigarette butts will be found in one of the evidence rooms. That would get Cooper's DNA.

YES, the cigarette butts, I gave up on those.

Does anybody think there is anyway to convince the FBI to allow an accredited lab with modern techniques to analyze the tie for DNA if they didn't have to pay for it?

I tried that angle through my Liaison at the Department of Justice National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NAMUS) site. They wanted and would have paid to analyze the existing DNA samples on the tie to DNA in the NAMUS DNA database.

My Liaison was given the brush off.

Here is the email chain:

Agent Eng,
Please accept this as my formal request to request the FBI lab to compare the DNA samples you have of D.B. Cooper, with the samples that the University of N. Texas has with one Melvin Wilson, UNT missing person MP# 15178.
This potential match has been requested before, but was not responded to.
Your assistance with this comparison would be greatly appreciated.

J....... F......
Regional Systems Administrator
National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Web : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
NamUs @ UNT Health Science Center
3500 Camp Bowie Blvd.
Ft. Worth, Texas 76107
ORI:TX220035Y

And...the reply from Seattle:

From: Dietrich, Ayn S. [You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 5:32 PM
To: Franson, Janet
Cc: Eng, Curtis J.
Subject: RE: Request DNA comparison ref D.B. Cooper

Hello, Ms. F...........—

I work with Special Agent Eng in the FBI Seattle field office and I handle inquiries from the media and public. SA Eng forwarded me your email so I could explain to you the limitations we face in responding to your inquiry.

During any given investigation, the FBI receives many tips, follows many leads, and talks to many people. In accordance with DOJ policy, we cannot discuss details of ongoing investigations. This includes not disclosing subjects considered and/or excluded, and investigative techniques that may be used. I understand the public and valued partners to the FBI are curious about the FBI's investigative process, and they may rest assured that the FBI pursues all leads that we believe will provide us with information of investigative value.

SA Eng has received your messages and handled them appropriately. I apologize that we are unable to disclose the nature and extent of our investigative response.

Regards,
Ayn

———————————————
Ayn Sandalo Dietrich
Public Affairs, FBI Seattle
206-262-2390

So....if you try this angle, or something similar, I wish you luck.

edited to add.....Sorry shutter...seems like we have drifted off topic. I did not realize this question I responded to was in Tina Bar Money Find.

That really sums up the problem, the FBI mandate is not a solve, but a prosecution. Those two things are now in conflict. Somebody with pull needs to approach the FBI on this.. we can find the $$ for testing.

Long shot, but the samples Kaye got off the tie, can they be tested for DNA..

According to Kaye's latest radio interview the FBI already got 14-15 samples off the tie and tested for dna, back in 2000/2001. Kaye said tie vs tie clasp. ? $:-\$ I only hope his words were accurate?

As for your dialectic about 'solving' vs 'prosecution', people obviously have to go some distance toward collecting evidence in order to prosecute. Solving is therefore relative and implied at least as an expectation!

A solve is an entirely different standard from a prosecution, add to that the likelihood that the hijacker died or has died since. For example, the FBI's partial DNA is useless in court but may be used in a solve. By the FBI only pursuing a prosecution, a solve becomes more unlikely.

IMO, the key is new DNA testing on the tie/clip, if the FBI doesn't provide it perhaps Kaye's samples can be tested.. IDK

Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find (Read 1202861 times)

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Shutter

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

sailshaw

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

MarkBennett

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

FLYJACK

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

EVickiW

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

FLYJACK

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

Robert99

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

EVickiW

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

FLYJACK

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

georger

Re: Tina Bar Money Find

FLYJACK

Re: Tina Bar Money Find