Poll

How did the money arrive on Tena Bar

River Flooding
1 (5%)
Floated to it's resting spot via Columbia river
2 (10%)
Planted
6 (30%)
Dredge
11 (55%)
tossed in the river in a paper bag
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 17

Voting closed: August 16, 2016, 09:05:28 AM

Author Topic: Tena Bar Money Find  (Read 1665934 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2175 on: July 18, 2016, 08:20:59 PM »
Then, we have Tina on the show. she was with Cooper for over 5 hours. she took a very good look at Rackstraw, and you could see her listening to his voice. she said it wasn't him....how much more does one need?

Memory can play tricks on Tina, but suspect witnesses can remember things in detail?
 


« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 09:59:25 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2176 on: July 18, 2016, 08:36:31 PM »
Paragraph taken from Tom's site....You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


One of the deployed bundles had it's note recovered by a member of the public eighteen months after release.  The rubber bands and money had become separated from the tag and were not recovered. The tag was recovered in a shallow water area close to the mouth of the Columbia after traveling 5.5 miles (Fig. 3). The bundle did not survive the trip intact, suggesting that the rubber bands degraded and came loose over this time period which is considerably less than the 3-4 years required for the Washdown Theory.



« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 08:44:25 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline brbducksfan

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2177 on: July 18, 2016, 10:52:42 PM »
Hi Shutter,

Personally, I believe the $ was planted @ Tena Bar.  While I'm not sold on Colbert's theory regarding Rakestraw, two witnesses who claim they were @ a party with the Ingrams' and were told they were going to find the $ (and then do) passed polygraph tests administered by former FBI agents....at minimum, I find that interesting.... 





 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2178 on: July 18, 2016, 11:00:33 PM »
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Hi Shutter,

Personally, I believe the $ was planted @ Tena Bar.  While I'm not sold on Colbert's theory regarding Rakestraw, two witnesses who claim they were @ a party with the Ingrams' and were told they were going to find the $ (and then do) passed polygraph tests administered by former FBI agents....at minimum, I find that interesting....

can you explain how pieces of money were found at different levels around the money find, and beyond?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2179 on: July 18, 2016, 11:10:18 PM »
I also find it rather strange that the recent video was taken down about the money found on Tena bar. this was critical video showing things only discussed, but never seen before. it was original footage seen by many during the broadcast, but it was odd that it disappeared prior to the show? whether it had anything to do with that is out of my hands, or pure speculation...

The owner, or person who posted the video told me it was taken down due to interested parties....

I sent Colbert an email on the 26th of last month. he responded days later, but didn't say a word about the video..we started conversing from that point on until the second night the show aired. the emails ceased from that point, other than the press release type of email he wanted me to post on the forum. I haven't had contact with him since then...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 11:15:55 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2180 on: July 18, 2016, 11:26:06 PM »
ODD...I just received an email from Colbert?


He provided this link....

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« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 11:27:01 PM by Shutter »
 

Robert99

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2181 on: July 19, 2016, 01:05:49 AM »
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ODD...I just received an email from Colbert?


He provided this link....

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My God!  So the writing in the letter matches the writing of the NWA ticket agent in Portland!  That alone should clear someone of something, but I am not exactly sure what. >:D


 
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 02:47:56 AM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2182 on: July 19, 2016, 02:37:54 AM »
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Hi Shutter,

Personally, I believe the $ was planted @ Tena Bar.  While I'm not sold on Colbert's theory regarding Rakestraw, two witnesses who claim they were @ a party with the Ingrams' and were told they were going to find the $ (and then do) passed polygraph tests administered by former FBI agents....at minimum, I find that interesting....

That depends on what you mean by "the money". Do you and they mean 'some money', 'just money', or 'Cooper money'. Did the people who passed a polygraph tell anyone what in hell they were saying and what they meant? What did the polygraph tech ask them: "Do you own camels in Chicago"? It's important, maybe.  :))   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2183 on: July 19, 2016, 02:49:14 AM »
I think to test this fairly, or accurately, Hal Williams needs to supply his handwriting for comparison?

I just noticed I posted under R99's post....sorry. I have a bad habit of hitting "modify" instead of quote....
 

Offline brbducksfan

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2184 on: July 19, 2016, 02:55:58 AM »
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Hi Shutter,

Personally, I believe the $ was planted @ Tena Bar.  While I'm not sold on Colbert's theory regarding Rakestraw, two witnesses who claim they were @ a party with the Ingrams' and were told they were going to find the $ (and then do) passed polygraph tests administered by former FBI agents....at minimum, I find that interesting....

can you explain how pieces of money were found at different levels around the money find, and beyond?

No, I can't.   From the Citizen's Sleuths Conclusion (quoting): "The money find on Tena Bar is complicated. The rubber band experiments allow less than a year for the money to become entombed in the sand. The money continues to resist all natural explanations for how it arrived on Tena Bar...If Cooper walked out of the woods, there would certainly be easier ways to explain the money if human intervention was involved."

This logic makes sense to me. 

Semi-related, Colbert's flippant dismissal of the flight attendant was bad...when arguably the best eye witness who was very much a victim in all of this effectively says 'this is not the guy', you shouldn't do character assassination on her because she disagrees with you.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2185 on: July 19, 2016, 05:17:03 AM »
The following statements were taken from Toms site...

The preeminent theory on how the money was buried on Tena Bar centers around the dredging operation in 1974. Detailed analysis through multiple aspects of this investigation was able to discount the dredging operation as the transport mechanism for the bundles. This then calls into question other theories outlined elsewhere in this research that depend on the dredging scenario.  This research did not, however, uncover a better explanation for how the money ended up on Tena Bar.

The dredge used in the 1974 operation was described in the FBI transcripts as having "a 24 inch pipe with wiper bar inside the pipe". Further discussion in the transcript describes "an auger" and speculates that a 16x16x4 inch package would be torn apart when transported through the pipe. This is a reasonable view given the power and violent action of dredging.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, according to a recent video (taken down) the cameraman goes right to an agent who finds a piece deep in the sand, and they also verify this a couple times in the video. Up to 2 feet in depth. Tuff on a plant theory.

They seem to speculate the violence of the dredge, and the bag being torn apart, the wiper bar is a single bar to help block large rocks from entering the pipe. I emailed several pump/dredge companies. They gave a different view. One stated the money could of got past the pump if it was secured tight. It was originally in a bag, and a witness claimed to see him wrapping it with the chute chord.

We also have conflicts with the dredge layer itself. Tom Kaye is one of them. I'm skeptical as well..

Then we have years worth of valuable time between the dredge, and the time the money was found, plus, during the dredge operation the slurry could of washed a lot of evidence away, along with time.

When you put all of this together, it doesn't sound like they can rule the dredge out. I can't, but I can't prove the dredge is the accomplice either, but since it's inconclusive, I don't think it's ready for a plant theory to take it's place. Without the dredge, Tom can only speculate with human intervention  no better explanation could be found.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 05:38:00 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2186 on: July 19, 2016, 11:10:53 AM »
Here are the two emails I received in reference to the money surviving the the dredge pump. that's the danger zone of the entire dredge operation.

Quote
Dave,
Fascinating!  DB is still at work.  I think the wiper bar is just referring to a simple grate or bar across the suction end of the dredge to help keep it from sucking up large debris.  It all depends on how close the bars were placed to basically screen the debris out as to whether the money could make it through.  Then it would have to make it through the pump.  Not sure if that is possible or not without more details.  Hope this helps.
 
John Bryant
VP Business Development
River Sand Incorporated

Quote
Dave,
As a rule of thumb a dredge pump will pass a particle 60% the size of the discharge diameter (24” x 60% = 14” particle). A wiper or any screening device at the cutter can greatly affect the rule of thumb. If the money was bundled very tightly where it wouldn’t just blow apart then there is definitely a chance it made it through the pump. I have heard of acetylene bottles making it through a 30” dredge pump – go figure.
 
Bob Wetta
President / CEO
DSC Dredge

Lots of debris can get through the dredge. this contradicts statements from the past. we know the rubber bands had already failed, but was it the sand keeping them in place until they were moved?
 

georger

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2187 on: July 19, 2016, 12:06:04 PM »
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Here are the two emails I received in reference to the money surviving the the dredge pump. that's the danger zone of the entire dredge operation.

Quote
Dave,
Fascinating!  DB is still at work.  I think the wiper bar is just referring to a simple grate or bar across the suction end of the dredge to help keep it from sucking up large debris.  It all depends on how close the bars were placed to basically screen the debris out as to whether the money could make it through.  Then it would have to make it through the pump.  Not sure if that is possible or not without more details.  Hope this helps.
 
John Bryant
VP Business Development
River Sand Incorporated

Quote
Dave,
As a rule of thumb a dredge pump will pass a particle 60% the size of the discharge diameter (24” x 60% = 14” particle). A wiper or any screening device at the cutter can greatly affect the rule of thumb. If the money was bundled very tightly where it wouldn’t just blow apart then there is definitely a chance it made it through the pump. I have heard of acetylene bottles making it through a 30” dredge pump – go figure.
 
Bob Wetta
President / CEO
DSC Dredge

Lots of debris can get through the dredge. this contradicts statements from the past. we know the rubber bands had already failed, but was it the sand keeping them in place until they were moved?

At DZ years ago it was 'small tv sets' !  So this has gone around a large circle, in orbit around Kaye Industries. Go figure!  >:D
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2188 on: July 19, 2016, 12:16:09 PM »
A lot of objects, metal ones, were discussed in the past while I was reading through the DZ. I noticed nobody made any attempt to see if paper, or bundled paper could pass through the dredge. Snow presented articles of 60 feet of chain, and cannon balls bouncing through the pipes, but again, these were metal objects, no damage will occur with these type of objects. apples, and oranges IMO.

I can't say the dredge is the reason, but I'm trying to find reason to discount the dredge as well. the best thing with a cold case is retracing what they already have, or said in the past. I look for possible error's, and proceed from there...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Tina Bar Money Find
« Reply #2189 on: July 19, 2016, 12:26:08 PM »
Robert99 is also working on his theory of how the money arrived on the river bank. he has done a lot of work on this, much more than concluding someone must of planted the money...I haven't seen a lot of substance behind a plant.