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[FLYJACK]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

no propeller theory,

We have Kermit's anecdotal plus hydrologist confirmation that the Columbia flow reversal goes well beyond TBAR..

Now, can it move some bundles of cash 15 km from the Lewis, that it the question. Seems hard to believe but it can't be ruled out with forum hyperbole.

[Shutter]

can you provide data that supports the same for the bottom of the river, and the ability to reverse flow 20 lbs of material 10 miles?

It's bad enough claiming the stairs were not detected 5 minutes before they were, now we are moving 20 lbs backwards for 10 miles...

[FLYJACK]

Visual search with a sub could EASILY miss something if visibility was low. A GPS indexed side scan sonar survey from the surface with a towed transducer would be a good way to search. Look at the resolution that is possible (see drowning victim image) : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

yes, searching an underwater forest of dead trees and branches would be a challenge even with today's tech

Are you totally unaware that locals/others have searched Merwin Lake for Cooper multiple times over the years? A cadaver dog search was even conducted by one local.

You need to start working with modern data vs robo posting dead-certain guesswork.    Attitude is not proof.

Really, 180 ft depths have been completely searched and ruled out.

I dont know - have they! ? 

Have the caverns underneath the Vatican been searched? 

And I continually come back to Anderson's quote: "Anderson added, it had not occurred to them at the time to pinpoint their exact location at the time of the oscillation … ". Anderson was saying the same thing in 2009 when we interviewed him after bypassing the Cook-Smith regime. And so was BR saying the same thing when he was interviewed by ________________.     

Cooper bailed AFTER the oscillations began. Probably coterminous with the BUMP.

The north pole is connected to Tina Bar by water.

The Placard GPS location is only part of this. The other pieces is identifying the Placard location as the secondary emergency release, its removal from the wall, delay then fall..

"Cooper bailed AFTER the oscillations began." < how long after oscillations began?

[FLYJACK]

can you provide data that supports the same for the bottom of the river, and the ability to reverse flow 20 lbs of material 10 miles?

It's bad enough claiming the stairs were not detected 5 minutes before they were, now we are moving 20 lbs backwards for 10 miles...

A bit of unwarranted attack... 

All I have pointed out is that we have anecdotal and professional evidence the Columbia reverses flow beyond TBAR.. Proving that it can move 20 lbs, a briefcase or even a bundle 10 miles is a HUGE task beyond most peoples ability. It is hard to imagine but being so dismissive is intellectually closed.

[Shutter]

attack, I'm attacking the evidence...don't imply anything else other than that!

where is the data showing these objects can be moved in reverse from the BOTTOM of the river for long distances.,.

[Shutter]

If the money fell in the Lewis river and sank sitting there, or snagged for a period of time it would become lodged in the sediments making it hard to move. you are implying it tumbled downstream and reversed once it entered the Columbia..

surely, you have hundreds of reports of boats that escaped docks were found miles away in the opposite direction of the flow of the river. and that's on the surface only?

[FLYJACK]

attack, I'm attacking the evidence...don't imply anything else other than that!

where is the data showing these objects can be moved in reverse from the BOTTOM of the river for long distances.,.

You know very well that NOBODY has proven it.. and that does not mean it can't happen..  no proof does not = evidence

absence of proof is NOT evidence..


This is a theory, I am not saying I can prove it or it is fact. Maybe Cooper survived. Lake Merwin is not new. Calculating an LZ from the placard is. This is how you advance new ideas or re-explore old ones.. clearly after 45 plus years what has been done in this case has had poor results.

I do find it hard to imagine the money in some form, due to flow reversal, moving up from the Lewis 10 miles to TBAR but you can't just dismiss it outright because we don't have proof. There may have been some convergence of events. You have to make assumptions to advance and test new ideas or you are stuck, even if they don't pan out they are worth exploring.

[Shutter]

to the tide exists farther upstream than the stagnation point and is measurable up to Bonneville Dam. Thus, small periodic changes in river flow rate due to the tide are detectable as far upstream as Bonneville and must be considered in estimating the possible rise in ambient river temperatures

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[Shutter]

Logic can dismiss the lack of evidence. I keep reading about the reverse flow being "periodic' vs constant, and not much about the force it carries. the idea of it moving at a long distance in reverse is not logical. I'm willing to look at anything if it can be backup. you present things implying them as facts..that's my opinion. it's not any type of "attack"

try calling the Corps of Engineers of Portland and see what they have to say about this theory..if they can provide proof of this, then we can look into it further..

what you are implying has every worse case taken care of with ease.

It's able to move backwards for over 10 miles.
It never got caught any any dredge operation on the way down to (T-bar area)
It got past debris on the bottom getting up and over, or around objects in reverse.

how long of a process was this, and how many times did the reverse flow move this object over time?
How many times was the river dredged north of T-bar to the entrance of the Lewis river?

[FLYJACK]

Logic can dismiss the lack of evidence. I keep reading about the reverse flow being "periodic' vs constant, and not much about the force it carries. the idea of it moving at a long distance in reverse is not logical. I'm willing to look at anything if it can be backup. you present things implying them as facts..that's my opinion. it's not any type of "attack"

try calling the Corps of Engineers of Portland and see what they have to say about this theory..if they can provide proof of this, then we can look into it further..

what you are implying has every worse case taken care of with ease.

It's able to move backwards for over 10 miles.
It never got caught any any dredge operation on the way down to (T-bar area)
It got past debris on the bottom getting up and over, or around objects in reverse.

how long of a process was this, and how many times did the reverse flow move this object over time?

This is interesting DATA, the flow reversal was strongest during "low flow"

You can search the Bonneville flow data, set parameter from 1971-Feb 1980 and 1979 had a low flow year vs early 70's with some dates in '79 very low. The daily flow rates dropped dramatically from the early 70's some in 500's to 81.3 on 09/29/1979. Maybe coincide with high tide or king tide?

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[Shutter]

River current and tides are dynamic forces. Ebb tides increase the speed of the river downstream, while incoming tides can reverse some of the lower river's direction everywhere except in the main channel.

Strong river flows combined with an outgoing tide can make for a fast moving river that can overwhelm even strong paddlers. Be especially careful paddling in these conditions as strong currents when combined with wind can create strong waves and whitecaps across the river. 

This would put the bag miles back downstream..

[Shutter]

In my opinion, you are claiming the bag moved along the bottom of the river in reverse at certain points.


The problem I see is the fact of the bag never going back with the natural flow of the river. you are implying it went against these odds as well. completely untouched by the natural flow, or objects on the bottom of the river making it's way upstream for a great distance. the reverse flow couldn't possibly be greater than the natural flow for long periods of time..they would have to change the natural flow of the river to reverse...

[Robert99]

Logic can dismiss the lack of evidence. I keep reading about the reverse flow being "periodic' vs constant, and not much about the force it carries. the idea of it moving at a long distance in reverse is not logical. I'm willing to look at anything if it can be backup. you present things implying them as facts..that's my opinion. it's not any type of "attack"

try calling the Corps of Engineers of Portland and see what they have to say about this theory..if they can provide proof of this, then we can look into it further..

what you are implying has every worse case taken care of with ease.

It's able to move backwards for over 10 miles.
It never got caught any any dredge operation on the way down to (T-bar area)
It got past debris on the bottom getting up and over, or around objects in reverse.

how long of a process was this, and how many times did the reverse flow move this object over time?
How many times was the river dredged north of T-bar to the entrance of the Lewis river?

To add to Shutter's list of problems with the money coming up the Columbia River, assuming that the money entered the Columbia some distance downstream (to the North) of Tina Bar, it would end up at the bottom of the 40+ foot deep shipping channel which is relatively close to the west bank of the river.  It would then have to continue along the bottom of that channel until it got to Tina Bar.

When reaching Tina Bar, some magical force (and I don't think it would be dredging) has to move that money bag 40+ feet vertically and several hundred feet horizontally to get it to the point where the money was found.

For the record, I may, or may not, believe in Santa Claus, but I don't believe in the tooth fairy.

[FLYJACK]

In my opinion, you are claiming the bag moved along the bottom of the river in reverse at certain points.


The problem I see is the fact of the bag never going back with the natural flow of the river. you are implying it went against these odds as well. completely untouched by the natural flow, or objects on the bottom of the river making it's way upstream for a great distance. the reverse flow couldn't possibly be greater than the natural flow for long periods of time..they would have to change the natural flow of the river to reverse...

I have read up to 8 hours for flow reversal.. strength varies of course

I realize that is is difficult to imagine, but there may be a low flow combined with events that make it possible and we just haven't discovered them yet..

Would a surface flow reversal increase object buoyancy aka pushing it up?

[Shutter]

with the bag untouched by anything on the bottom, able to move freely would have to have more reverse flow than the natural flow..it could never make any backwards progress fighting the natural current in less time.

the bag would simply move back with the flow of the current erasing any backwards motion. you can push a car up a hill, but if you stop, the car will just roll back...so, if the current was strong enough to go against the natural flow for 8 hours, it then has 16 to remove what it lost....