Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1827410 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6405 on: October 23, 2019, 11:19:40 PM »
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I believe there would have hunters in the area you are referring to Robert99. Depending on the weather, they might still have been running raccoon in late November.

Do you mean on the Washington side of the river and between the North West Lower River Road and the river itself?  And in the Tina Bar area?
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6406 on: October 23, 2019, 11:25:23 PM »
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Remember all Cooper had to do was face forward on the steps and pull. He would have had a relatively gentle stable "squidding" opening, just like the 727 jumpers over Thailand did. If Cooper had served in SE Asia and was involved in or around airdrops (kicker perhaps?) he may well have learned about these SAT 727 jumps over Korat. There was an overlap between Nam kickers and USFS smokejumpers. The smokejumpers were specially recruited. The smokejumper background is one reason Sheridan Peterson makes such an interesting candidate but there is ZERO evidence that puts him on the NORJAK plane. This is a variant of correlation does not equal causation. Sheridan is the nearly perfect candidate but that only proves ability not involvement. I wish he'd ask the FBI for the results of his DNA test. As long as he is alive only he can get this, not third parties.

377

I have seen plenty of pictures and movies of people standing near the wing tips of biplanes and pulling the rip cord.  Those parachutes opened fully immediately without any "squibbing" at all.  But did Cooper know enough about parachuting to do what you suggest?

Did Cooper have a degree from Harvard? Did he know how to change brakes in a car? Did he know who his mother was or was he raised in an orphanage? Did he have twelve toes?

 :chr2:
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6407 on: October 23, 2019, 11:34:41 PM »
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I believe it snowed in the Tina Bar area a day or two after the hijacking and that, plus the relatively low temperatures, would have reduced the possibility of Cooper being found visually or by smell.

 

This is the first I've heard about snow on November 25-30, 1971 at low elevations, T-Bar included. Everyone I've spoken to about snow tells me that the snow was above 1,500 feet, which is typical.

I live at 600-feet elevation and it only snows here on occasion. Some winters, never.

Of course there wasn’t any snow at Tina Bar ! Another preposterous statement that defies logic ! I lived there and it seldom snows in Portland/Vancouver area ! I’ve delivered mail there for 28 years and there were years when I encountered no snow ! Check the weather report for those days if you doubt me. Like Bruce stated, it seldom snows at these elevations ! How many feet above sea level does Anyone estimate Tina Bar to be ? 30 ft ?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6408 on: October 24, 2019, 03:19:32 AM »
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I believe it snowed in the Tina Bar area a day or two after the hijacking and that, plus the relatively low temperatures, would have reduced the possibility of Cooper being found visually or by smell.

 

This is the first I've heard about snow on November 25-30, 1971 at low elevations, T-Bar included. Everyone I've spoken to about snow tells me that the snow was above 1,500 feet, which is typical.

I live at 600-feet elevation and it only snows here on occasion. Some winters, never.

Of course there wasn’t any snow at Tina Bar ! Another preposterous statement that defies logic ! I lived there and it seldom snows in Portland/Vancouver area ! I’ve delivered mail there for 28 years and there were years when I encountered no snow ! Check the weather report for those days if you doubt me. Like Bruce stated, it seldom snows at these elevations ! How many feet above sea level does Anyone estimate Tina Bar to be ? 30 ft ?

Kermit, you may need to sit down before reading the rest of this.

I have checked Wiki for the climate data for Portland, OR and it lists the average annual total snowfall as 4.4 inches.  Portland International Airport is 30 feet above sea level.

Wiki lists the Vancouver, WA average annual total snowfall as 3.4 inches.  And Vancouver is just a few feet higher than the PIA.

For the city where I live, Wiki lists the average annual total snowfall as 0.8 inches [that is less than one inch].  And this fair city is 4600+ feet above sea level.

Wiki doesn't list anything for the REI store in Portland.  Sorry about that.
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6409 on: October 24, 2019, 04:43:00 AM »
Yes I believe they hunted all over the area you are talking about.          Couldn't his choosing to jump at night be a sign that he was confident in his skydiving ability? If he was worried about jumping at night why not just hijack the earlier flight?  I think labeling him as dumb might be a mistake. Any chance you are under estimating his skills?
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6410 on: October 24, 2019, 05:42:05 AM »
Shoutout to 377.  Really cool skydiving pics (from previous page). One of my daughters has skydiving plans in her future. Personally, I think I will stay grounded on land.
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6411 on: October 24, 2019, 10:43:15 AM »
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I believe it snowed in the Tina Bar area a day or two after the hijacking and that, plus the relatively low temperatures, would have reduced the possibility of Cooper being found visually or by smell.

 

This is the first I've heard about snow on November 25-30, 1971 at low elevations, T-Bar included. Everyone I've spoken to about snow tells me that the snow was above 1,500 feet, which is typical.

I live at 600-feet elevation and it only snows here on occasion. Some winters, never.

Of course there wasn’t any snow at Tina Bar ! Another preposterous statement that defies logic ! I lived there and it seldom snows in Portland/Vancouver area ! I’ve delivered mail there for 28 years and there were years when I encountered no snow ! Check the weather report for those days if you doubt me. Like Bruce stated, it seldom snows at these elevations ! How many feet above sea level does Anyone estimate Tina Bar to be ? 30 ft ?

Kermit, you may need to sit down before reading the rest of this.

I have checked Wiki for the climate data for Portland, OR and it lists the average annual total snowfall as 4.4 inches.  Portland International Airport is 30 feet above sea level.

Wiki lists the Vancouver, WA average annual total snowfall as 3.4 inches.  And Vancouver is just a few feet higher than the PIA.

For the city where I live, Wiki lists the average annual total snowfall as 0.8 inches [that is less than one inch].  And this fair city is 4600+ feet above sea level.

Wiki doesn't list anything for the REI store in Portland.  Sorry about that.

Portland consists of areas of many diversified elevations within its boundaries. There are the west Hills which rise to the 1000 ft elevation. We have Mt. Tabor, Rocky Butt and I lived in Mt Scott area which also rose to close to 1000 ft.
My children loved it because Happy Valley schools were closed more often than any others Because of the snow.
I had a 4 wheel drive with 4 studded tires because of the amount of snow and steep Hills ! However when I arrived at my work in downtown Portland area, guess what ? There were bare streets ! The Portland Waterfront on the banks of the Willamette River has an elevation of 20 feet. I will repeat once again for anyone who actually wants to make preposterous statements that there was snow at Tina Bar in the week of November 24, 1971. There was no snow at Tina Bar and the elevation is probably in the 20 to 30 ft area ! Let’s stick to reality ! I invited Robert 99 to join me for lunch at Dan and Louis Oyster Bar once before and if he’s in Town, I’d invite him again ! It’s at 208 S.W Ankeny st. Elevation probably is around 30 ft ! Please don’t come around Thanksgiving as it’ll probably be snowing ! Lol I’m buying !
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6412 on: October 24, 2019, 01:40:39 PM »
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Yes I believe they hunted all over the area you are talking about.          Couldn't his choosing to jump at night be a sign that he was confident in his skydiving ability? If he was worried about jumping at night why not just hijack the earlier flight?  I think labeling him as dumb might be a mistake. Any chance you are under estimating his skills?

I could indeed be under estimating his skills.  But then I could also be over estimating his skills.
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6413 on: October 24, 2019, 07:35:22 PM »
I apologize to Shutter if we are in the wrong thread. Feel free to redirect.
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6414 on: October 24, 2019, 07:41:06 PM »
I am of the opinion that the hijacking was well thought out in advance. How about others? What do you guys and gals think? I would love to hear your opinions.
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6415 on: October 24, 2019, 10:02:37 PM »
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I am of the opinion that the hijacking was well thought out in advance. How about others? What do you guys and gals think? I would love to hear your opinions.

Let's check out some things.

1.  The NWA flight that was hijacked was only initiated about three months earlier.  And Cooper was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.

2.  Being so late in the day before a national holiday, there was no guarantee that anyone could come up with $200,000 in cash.  Would Cooper have accepted a check otherwise?

3.  Sunset in Seattle that day was about 4:45 PM and Cooper said he wanted everything ready on the ground by 5:00 PM.  This guaranteed that he would be making a nighttime jump.  Did he have a flash light with him?

4.  Cooper appeared to be wearing what was more or less a business suit.  His shoes have been variously described but there is a high probability that he would lose them in the parachute opening.  Even if he didn't lose them, they probably would not survive a lengthy hike.

5.  He had a bit of knowledge about the aft stairs but didn't know how to lower them and had difficulty doing so even after being instructed on how to do it.

6.  It is a safe assumption that he routinely carried a pocket knife.  There was nothing onboard the airliner that he could use to cut the shroud lines of the chest chute that remained on the plane.

7.  The fact that his body was never found does not mean that he survived the jump.

Overall, to me it looks like extremely poor planning and even  worse execution.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 10:04:41 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6416 on: October 24, 2019, 11:34:18 PM »
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I am of the opinion that the hijacking was well thought out in advance. How about others? What do you guys and gals think? I would love to hear your opinions.

Let's check out some things.

1.  The NWA flight that was hijacked was only initiated about three months earlier.  And Cooper was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.

2.  Being so late in the day before a national holiday, there was no guarantee that anyone could come up with $200,000 in cash.  Would Cooper have accepted a check otherwise?

3.  Sunset in Seattle that day was about 4:45 PM and Cooper said he wanted everything ready on the ground by 5:00 PM.  This guaranteed that he would be making a nighttime jump.  Did he have a flash light with him?

4.  Cooper appeared to be wearing what was more or less a business suit.  His shoes have been variously described but there is a high probability that he would lose them in the parachute opening.  Even if he didn't lose them, they probably would not survive a lengthy hike.

5.  He had a bit of knowledge about the aft stairs but didn't know how to lower them and had difficulty doing so even after being instructed on how to do it.

6.  It is a safe assumption that he routinely carried a pocket knife.  There was nothing onboard the airliner that he could use to cut the shroud lines of the chest chute that remained on the plane.

7.  The fact that his body was never found does not mean that he survived the jump.

Overall, to me it looks like extremely poor planning and even  worse execution.

#2 is patently false - money was available for any occasion any time. Banks and the FBI plan ahead. This wasn't their first rodeo. Cooper knew money would be delivered from some source and he assumed by the time they landed at SEA.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 12:49:24 AM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6417 on: October 24, 2019, 11:35:40 PM »
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I am of the opinion that the hijacking was well thought out in advance. How about others? What do you guys and gals think? I would love to hear your opinions.

Cooper said as much.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6418 on: October 25, 2019, 12:55:29 AM »
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I am of the opinion that the hijacking was well thought out in advance. How about others? What do you guys and gals think? I would love to hear your opinions.

Let's check out some things.

1.  The NWA flight that was hijacked was only initiated about three months earlier.  And Cooper was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.

2.  Being so late in the day before a national holiday, there was no guarantee that anyone could come up with $200,000 in cash.  Would Cooper have accepted a check otherwise?

3.  Sunset in Seattle that day was about 4:45 PM and Cooper said he wanted everything ready on the ground by 5:00 PM.  This guaranteed that he would be making a nighttime jump.  Did he have a flash light with him?

4.  Cooper appeared to be wearing what was more or less a business suit.  His shoes have been variously described but there is a high probability that he would lose them in the parachute opening.  Even if he didn't lose them, they probably would not survive a lengthy hike.

5.  He had a bit of knowledge about the aft stairs but didn't know how to lower them and had difficulty doing so even after being instructed on how to do it.

6.  It is a safe assumption that he routinely carried a pocket knife.  There was nothing onboard the airliner that he could use to cut the shroud lines of the chest chute that remained on the plane.

7.  The fact that his body was never found does not mean that he survived the jump.

Overall, to me it looks like extremely poor planning and even  worse execution.

#2 is patently false - money was available for any occasion any time. Banks and the FBI plan ahead. This wasn't their first rodeo. Cooper knew money would be delivered from some source.

About $500,000 was reportedly in the "fund" from which the hijack money was taken.  You are saying that this fund would not be in a time controlled vault at any time.  You are also saying that Cooper knew that the money was available from somewhere.  Do you have a source for these claims?  Otherwise, it just your speculations.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6419 on: October 25, 2019, 12:57:34 AM »
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I am of the opinion that the hijacking was well thought out in advance. How about others? What do you guys and gals think? I would love to hear your opinions.

Cooper said as much.

Just exactly what did Cooper say that indicated "the hijacking was well thought out in advance?"  And do you have a source for that claim?