Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1884937 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6045 on: June 26, 2019, 02:02:02 AM »
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Flyjack claims update:

Flyjack has been bizzy. 

1. FJ claims to have identified one of the bills Harold Ingram phoned in about to the FBI. He says it was the top bill in the bundles of bills found by Brian Ingram. (Bill shown below) FJ says verbatum:

"L55376548B was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had that Ralph Himmelsbach Id'd as matching the FBI list.         This top bill is NOT blackened, if the FBI did use Silver Nitrate to fingerprint bills they would have fingerprinted this bill, the top one, they didn't. There was no record of SN being used and this bill would have been the primary target for fingerprinting." {Therefore, FJ says, the FBI or the bank marked the Cooper ransom before delivery to Cooper, and,  the FBI fingerprinting the bills may be a lie! }

No documentation provided. [quote above is Fkyjack's, in his words as posted - not my words]
 
2. "Found something interesting… The FBI files show that Cooper used two matchbooks.. One his and one supplied by Tina. Tosaw’s book distinguishes further. According to Tina the matchbook Cooper had said “Earn a High School Diploma” and Tina went to grab company matches from a cabinet.. Cooper recovered and took the first empty matchbook. Sky Chef supplied catering for flights..   That “suggests” the Sky Chef matches did not come from Cooper at all but were grabbed by Tina on the plane."

Source - Richard Tosaw's book.

3. "Cooper had 2 drinks. Money in packets of $2000 strapped in PAPER BANDS and some had additional rubber bands, corroborates Tina, H, and Bank letter to FBI..  Cooper offered 2 packets of money to stews, other than Tina.[Cooper offered 2 packets each to Tina, Hancock, and Schaffner!]

Source - Richard Tosaw's book, Tina, H, and Bank letter to FBI.

4. "Cooper demanded flaps down but flight ops was calculating range and they went back and asked Cooper, he then said 15 degrees."

"they went back and asked Cooper"   {They physically went back and talked to Cooper? Flyjack does not define what he means by "went back".}

source: FBI 302, Tosaw book, and special insight by FlyJack himself. This is the first evidence ever that the crew went back and talked to Cooper in person, mano-a-mano!

Shutter removed quote


NEWS - Fkyjack's claim is now more than year out of date due to new data collected last year, which FJ is unaware of!.

6. Flyjack now claims that R99's "flight path calculations are wrong".

Source: Flyjack University Avionics Dept. ?

 :nono: :conspiracy:

1.  Where did Flyjack post the above?

2.  Following the landing in Reno, the entire cockpit crew was interviewed by the FBI and it was stated that they did not leave the cockpit or see Cooper during the entire hijack event.  See the FBI 302 files among other things.

3. What is "Flyjack University Avionics Dept."?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 05:00:16 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6046 on: June 26, 2019, 07:21:47 AM »
I believe it was posted at Bruce's site or the Dropzone site. (maybe both)  I am not sure if he actually meant they physically went back to ask him or asked him by way of the stewardess. I thought Shutter had mentioned at one time that originally the flaps were set at 30 degrees upon accent but after seeing how much fuel it was using at this setting the flight crew asked to change the flaps to 30 degrees.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6047 on: June 26, 2019, 03:56:34 PM »
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Flyjack claims update:

Flyjack has been bizzy. 

1. FJ claims to have identified one of the bills Harold Ingram phoned in about to the FBI. He says it was the top bill in the bundles of bills found by Brian Ingram. (Bill shown below) FJ says verbatum:

"L55376548B was the bill on the top one of the of the packets the Ingrams had that Ralph Himmelsbach Id'd as matching the FBI list.         This top bill is NOT blackened, if the FBI did use Silver Nitrate to fingerprint bills they would have fingerprinted this bill, the top one, they didn't. There was no record of SN being used and this bill would have been the primary target for fingerprinting." {Therefore, FJ says, the FBI or the bank marked the Cooper ransom before delivery to Cooper, and,  the FBI fingerprinting the bills may be a lie! }

No documentation provided. [quote above is Fkyjack's, in his words as posted - not my words]
 
2. "Found something interesting… The FBI files show that Cooper used two matchbooks.. One his and one supplied by Tina. Tosaw’s book distinguishes further. According to Tina the matchbook Cooper had said “Earn a High School Diploma” and Tina went to grab company matches from a cabinet.. Cooper recovered and took the first empty matchbook. Sky Chef supplied catering for flights..   That “suggests” the Sky Chef matches did not come from Cooper at all but were grabbed by Tina on the plane."

Source - Richard Tosaw's book.

3. "Cooper had 2 drinks. Money in packets of $2000 strapped in PAPER BANDS and some had additional rubber bands, corroborates Tina, H, and Bank letter to FBI..  Cooper offered 2 packets of money to stews, other than Tina.[Cooper offered 2 packets each to Tina, Hancock, and Schaffner!]

Source - Richard Tosaw's book, Tina, H, and Bank letter to FBI.

4. "Cooper demanded flaps down but flight ops was calculating range and they went back and asked Cooper, he then said 15 degrees."

"they went back and asked Cooper"   {They physically went back and talked to Cooper? Flyjack does not define what he means by "went back".}

source: FBI 302, Tosaw book, and special insight by FlyJack himself. This is the first evidence ever that the crew went back and talked to Cooper in person, mano-a-mano!

5. Flyjack now claims to have new evidence about termite species native to Portland that verifies all holes and other imperfections in the Cooper bills - was caused by termites as per his original claim. He still claims that Tom Kaye is an "idiot and a liar" inasmuch as Tom attributes hole to bacteria.  :D

NEWS - Fkyjack's claim is now more than year out of date due to new data collected last year, which FJ is unaware of!.

6. Flyjack now claims that R99's "flight path calculations are wrong".

Source: Flyjack University Avionics Dept. ?

 :nono: :conspiracy:

1.  Where did Flyjack post the above?

2.  Following the landing in Reno, the entire cockpit crew was interviewed by the FBI and it was stated that they did not leave the cockpit or see Cooper during the entire hijack event.  See the FBI 302 files among other things.

3. What is "Flyjack University Avionics Dept."?

Dropzone and probably at the Smith site.

Flyjack names the Tosaw book as his source ?

I have no idea what "Flyjack University Avionics Dept." is. But I had no idea Flyjack was a physicist, geneticist, avionic engineer, and 40 other occupational levels of expertise, either. It's a puzzle. The Cooper vortex is puzzles inside of puzzles without end. 

*FJ doesn't like sourcing his claims - until forced to. It's also obvious there is a language/comprehension problem. FJ is French Canadian, he says. He has an English grammar problem. He's a literalist. In one doc Tina or her transcriber uses four different words for the Ingram money. FJ picked two and then claimed these were formal bank terms Tina somehow had pre-knowledge of! FJ has run with that ever since refusing to back down! He then calls other people with differing opinions, idiots and liars! It is almost impossible trying to work with somebody like that. Like trying to chase down free range chickens! 

He says your flight path "calculations" are wrong! I would like to see his "calculations"! He has never presented them leaving me to wonder if he even has any "calculations". 

Some people think Flyjack is Galen Cook ? I have a strong feeling Bruce Smith knows the answer to that - but Smith plays games too.

Not surprisingly, Flyjack has a suspect he is also promoting. The hijacker Frederick William Hahneman You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login 

My bias on Flyjaxck is: I have yet to see any of his claims or discoveries, turn out to be exactly what he originally claimed they were, or are. But, he is one of the few people looking at documents and probing the internet for information. That is a rarity in today's Cooper vortex!   
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 04:34:53 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6048 on: June 26, 2019, 04:57:16 PM »
I received a complaint from Flyjack in reference to Georger's comments.....


Flyjack states in his post on the DZ that "The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get."

He doesn't imply the flight path calculations are wrong. he states R99 got the placard drift calculations wrong.

"Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong."

He also backs up his statement with other evidence to support what he's talking about.

I have discussed the placard with Fly a while back. it's hard to say if the placard came from 305. there are two doors on the wall if the 727-100 has the emergency panel. it's separate from the larger door that is typical in raising and lowering the stairs. these are not typical placards made of plastic or metal. they are pretty much decals. the small panel for the emergency release has writing on it. not sure another placard would be placed near it. the crew is supposed to be trained on the emergency panel.

According to Hominid. he believes each plane was different, including the placement of the placards. the placard found was clearly one from Boeings inventory. the numbers can be seen in the lower right bottom. emergency levers are also on the outside of these planes with placards that are known to come off. my guess would be fuel related issue's cause them to come off.

The only evidence surrounding the placard comes from the media. nothing in the FBI files have surfaced regarding the placard. they state it was noticed days to weeks later which again doesn't make sense if Cooper pulled the wire lever. he would of taken off the panel to get to the lever. this should of been obvious once they entered the stairs right after the hijacking. the placard doesn't explain taking off the small panel that has two holes in it. finding the part number from the placard will give the location to where it goes. the DC9 has an emergency release from the outside as well.

The news reports on the placard also conflict.

Now, Flyjack is upset about a quote from Georger made in the same post concerning Tom. I'm removing that part to defuse this problem. both of you guys toss around the word liar when referencing each other. that needs to stop on both ends as well. fight with data. it's a lot easier.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6049 on: June 26, 2019, 05:02:08 PM »

Flyjack's complete post from the DZ....

 

 

The FBI walked back the Cowlitz Sheriff claims to say they could NOT confirm the Placard was from Norjak. Evidence suggests it is unlikely.

The wind was NOT a fact, according to FBI docs it was an estimate based from Portland and Salem averaged over an hour. Wind data closer to the area and jump zone have winds from the SSE to S.

Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong.

The flight path is backed up by the AF, F106 Pilots, Boeing, NWA and ATC….

The TBAR money being found on TBAR doesn’t mean Cooper landed nearby and buried it there, that is poor logic.

 

Eric’s confirmation bias has ignored and distorted facts to push his extremely speculative theory. The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 05:02:20 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6050 on: June 26, 2019, 05:45:52 PM »
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Flyjack's complete post from the DZ....

 

 

The FBI walked back the Cowlitz Sheriff claims to say they could NOT confirm the Placard was from Norjak. Evidence suggests it is unlikely.

The wind was NOT a fact, according to FBI docs it was an estimate based from Portland and Salem averaged over an hour. Wind data closer to the area and jump zone have winds from the SSE to S.

Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong.

The flight path is backed up by the AF, F106 Pilots, Boeing, NWA and ATC….

The TBAR money being found on TBAR doesn’t mean Cooper landed nearby and buried it there, that is poor logic.

 

Eric’s confirmation bias has ignored and distorted facts to push his extremely speculative theory. The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get.

Oh, my!  I hardly know where to start here.

There is nothing in the documentation from the F-106 pilots, Boeing, NWA, or ATC that addresses the flight path in the Portland area.  Presumably, the so-called "FBI map" was generated by the USAF but there is no confirmation of that.  The ATC radio transcripts that would confirm the flight path have been heavily redacted and the FBI refuses to "unredact" them.

The wind was NOT a factor?  Hells bells!  FJ apparently has never heard of the term "aerodynamics" and doesn't know what it means.  And the wind was from the southwest at all altitudes from sea level up to the 10,000 feet altitude where the airliner was when Cooper jumped.

FJ apparently doesn't believe the radiosonde data for the day of the hijacking that Tom Kaye recently posted here.  I guess FJ's position is that facts should be ignored if they don't agree with your claims.  For the record, Eric and I used this radiosonde data in the most recent calculation related to the placard and we came up within a very few feet of each other in the distance that the placard drifted.

In my opinion, FJ should stick to arguing about how the ransom money was wrapped.  Were the money bundles secured by paper bands or rubber bands?  If FJ could figure that out, he would then be ready for a real challenge such as finding out what happened to Judge Crater.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6051 on: June 26, 2019, 09:08:37 PM »
It's all in how one looks at evidence. several notations are in the 302's stating where the map came from. yes, the planes might travel the same path to Portland but that's not where they were going. they all agreed V23 was the route.

Paul Soderlind made the jump map based on the FBI map. that's why a slight difference can be seen.

Redact usually shows area's blacked out. we see zero reference to that. this would be a conspiracy more than redaction. the map wasn't even exposed to the public for decades. who were they hiding it from all that time? why is it so close timing wise. when you look at the transcripts you will see asterisk mark. these are +- up to 3 minutes and the rest is +- up to one minute. this helps explain the problem at takeoff with the 14 miles DME. it has a asterisk beside it. one can also be found on the famous 23 miles DME from Portland.

"times marked with an asterisk (*) are approximate, but believed to be accurate within approximately +- 3 minutes. all other times are believed to be within +- one minute."


The placard.....this is still another unanswered question. did 305 have the option. I have seen planes with them and they don't have that placard? the stews make no mention of the option. Boeing will not answer any questions that are not on any of there sites. several companies sell Boeing placards but will do very little without a number. I've sent the words and a photo of the placard only to get a response of needing a part number. Tom Kaye said it wasn't at Seattle. did they conclude it wasn't from 305? Cowlitz county has ZERO records of the event. it's like it never happened except the brief time it was in the news. no 302's have surfaced as of yet.
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6052 on: June 26, 2019, 11:38:58 PM »
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I received a complaint from Flyjack in reference to Georger's comments.....


Flyjack states in his post on the DZ that "The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get."

He doesn't imply the flight path calculations are wrong. he states R99 got the placard drift calculations wrong.

"Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong."

He also backs up his statement with other evidence to support what he's talking about.

I have discussed the placard with Fly a while back. it's hard to say if the placard came from 305. there are two doors on the wall if the 727-100 has the emergency panel. it's separate from the larger door that is typical in raising and lowering the stairs. these are not typical placards made of plastic or metal. they are pretty much decals. the small panel for the emergency release has writing on it. not sure another placard would be placed near it. the crew is supposed to be trained on the emergency panel.

According to Hominid. he believes each plane was different, including the placement of the placards. the placard found was clearly one from Boeings inventory. the numbers can be seen in the lower right bottom. emergency levers are also on the outside of these planes with placards that are known to come off. my guess would be fuel related issue's cause them to come off.

The only evidence surrounding the placard comes from the media. nothing in the FBI files have surfaced regarding the placard. they state it was noticed days to weeks later which again doesn't make sense if Cooper pulled the wire lever. he would of taken off the panel to get to the lever. this should of been obvious once they entered the stairs right after the hijacking. the placard doesn't explain taking off the small panel that has two holes in it. finding the part number from the placard will give the location to where it goes. the DC9 has an emergency release from the outside as well.

The news reports on the placard also conflict.

Now, Flyjack is upset about a quote from Georger made in the same post concerning Tom. I'm removing that part to defuse this problem. both of you guys toss around the word liar when referencing each other. that needs to stop on both ends as well. fight with data. it's a lot easier.

Oh brother - here we go again! More FJ BS and cherry picking to chase around. I posted exact quotes of Flyjack's from the DZ. So .............. let me leave here and chase this shit around one more time, I will come back and defend myself from the famous BULLJAX aka Flyjack later. Have a nice ozone layer! 
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6053 on: June 26, 2019, 11:44:41 PM »
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It's all in how one looks at evidence. several notations are in the 302's stating where the map came from. yes, the planes might travel the same path to Portland but that's not where they were going. they all agreed V23 was the route.

Paul Soderlind made the jump map based on the FBI map. that's why a slight difference can be seen.

Redact usually shows area's blacked out. we see zero reference to that. this would be a conspiracy more than redaction. the map wasn't even exposed to the public for decades. who were they hiding it from all that time? why is it so close timing wise. when you look at the transcripts you will see asterisk mark. these are +- up to 3 minutes and the rest is +- up to one minute. this helps explain the problem at takeoff with the 14 miles DME. it has a asterisk beside it. one can also be found on the famous 23 miles DME from Portland.

"times marked with an asterisk (*) are approximate, but believed to be accurate within approximately +- 3 minutes. all other times are believed to be within +- one minute."


The placard.....this is still another unanswered question. did 305 have the option. I have seen planes with them and they don't have that placard? the stews make no mention of the option. Boeing will not answer any questions that are not on any of there sites. several companies sell Boeing placards but will do very little without a number. I've sent the words and a photo of the placard only to get a response of needing a part number. Tom Kaye said it wasn't at Seattle. did they conclude it wasn't from 305? Cowlitz county has ZERO records of the event. it's like it never happened except the brief time it was in the news. no 302's have surfaced as of yet.

As I recall it, FBI Agent Larry Carr posted the "FBI map" and asked if anyone knew where it came from.

The dash lines in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts means that something has been deleted from the original transcript.  I have no idea what the "*" in the "FBI Notes" is suppose to mean but there are no asterisks in the original radio transcripts.  The asterisks may possibly mean that the times were based on transmissions through the ARINC radio system.  And in this context, it should be noted that the phone patch voice messages were received about 2 to 4 minutes before the teletype version of the conversations arrived.

The placard could have been installed by the NWA maintenance people in Minneapolis.
 

Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6054 on: June 27, 2019, 12:03:26 AM »
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Flyjack's complete post from the DZ....

 

 

The FBI walked back the Cowlitz Sheriff claims to say they could NOT confirm the Placard was from Norjak. Evidence suggests it is unlikely.

The wind was NOT a fact, according to FBI docs it was an estimate based from Portland and Salem averaged over an hour. Wind data closer to the area and jump zone have winds from the SSE to S.

Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong.

The flight path is backed up by the AF, F106 Pilots, Boeing, NWA and ATC….

The TBAR money being found on TBAR doesn’t mean Cooper landed nearby and buried it there, that is poor logic.

 

Eric’s confirmation bias has ignored and distorted facts to push his extremely speculative theory. The premise for a western flightpath is about as weak as you can get.

Oh, my!  I hardly know where to start here. !    Why are you defending Flyjack, Shutter. ! 

When I first read FJ's post I copied: "Robert Nicholson’s flight path calculations are wrong." It now reads: "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong." He edited his original post! But let us not labor this. Its common logic!

If     "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations are wrong."      THEN      "Robert Nicholson’s flight path calculations are wrong."   The latter depends on the former!    Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh.  But this goes deeper than that. I have never even seen  "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations" or any other recent calculations R99 has made because, they are buried somewhere on a Ulis site you have to pay $10? to even get to! Flyjack evidently paid the $10 bucks and saw Robert's most recent calculations to evaluate. Or he is lying and he didn't pay the $10 and hasn't even seen Robert's most recent calculations he is criticizing? In any event, this is all Flyjack sponsored HORSESHIT! Its one more Flyjack stunt he has now sucked you into!

I have never ever said R99's 'calculations' are wrong.

It's not me making claims. It is FLYJACK making claims!  I simply copy his crap from Dropzone and post it here verbatim as it gets copied. Did I not put everything I posted in quotes? Why would I do that if not because it was a direct copy.

Why are you defending this guy is what I want to know!  :conspiracy: 

Is there any other major infraction in my original post YOU OR HE is kvetching about as a lie or misrepresentation I have made? When do Fyjack's claims finally get some attention and by whom?

Why am I being asked to post my sources when nobody asks Flyjack to ever post his!? Why am I being held to a different standard than Flyjack?  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

Shutter: it is now your responsibility to go back and ask Flyjack: "Where did you see "Robert Nicholson’s placard drift calculations" to evaluate them, and can we see your mathematical evaluation? I mean either FJ saw those calcs and evaluated them mathematically or he didn't and is lying! Tell Flyjack to show us his work!

In other words I am filing a REVERSE COMPLAINT against Flyjack who isnt even a member of this forum! 

« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 12:27:16 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6055 on: June 27, 2019, 12:38:48 AM »
First of all. I don't speak to you like you are to me...I pointed out what I read and posted it. second, R99 has no calculations of a flight path other than straight down from the malay intersection. he's referring to his drift calculations. no time frames on the placard departure to involve calculations other than drift. he doesn't believe the path like others. actually, R99 has some calculations. he believes the plane left earlier than recorded and gives a jump time and mentions the Canby intersection.

you brought Flyjack here. it's not the other way around. I'm responding to it because he emailed his concerns. I'm not taking his side either but you should address him vs posting it here. I told Fly the same when it comes to tossing the lying card around.

Now, as for some of Roberts questions...

Carr apparently didn't know everything about the case.

The crew even helped in pinpointing the jump location.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

why would they say this if they were several miles west?

below is evidence of where the map came from and reference to the Portland area and V23..as well as the radar operator in PORTLAND stating the plane was several miles east of the centerline of the flyway.

 
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Offline georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6056 on: June 27, 2019, 04:43:33 AM »
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First of all. I don't speak to you like you are to me...I pointed out what I read and posted it. second, R99 has no calculations of a flight path other than straight down from the malay intersection. he's referring to his drift calculations. no time frames on the placard departure to involve calculations other than drift. he doesn't believe the path like others. actually, R99 has some calculations. he believes the plane left earlier than recorded and gives a jump time and mentions the Canby intersection.

you brought Flyjack here. it's not the other way around. I'm responding to it because he emailed his concerns. I'm not taking his side either but you should address him vs posting it here. I told Fly the same when it comes to tossing the lying card around.

Now, as for some of Roberts questions...

Carr apparently didn't know everything about the case.

The crew even helped in pinpointing the jump location.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

why would they say this if they were several miles west?

below is evidence of where the map came from and reference to the Portland area and V23..as well as the radar operator in PORTLAND stating the plane was several miles east of the centerline of the flyway.

From here on forward I will stick to the money find and nothing else. 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6057 on: June 27, 2019, 08:43:06 AM »
To clarify things.....

Flyjack is referring to the calculations used in a PDF about drift factors. he believes it would drift a lot further than the calculations R99 speaks of. nobody has shown any calculations (publicly). the drift distance basically tells that. he's quoted that several times.

I never asked you to post anything about his comments. I simply responded to the comment due to a complaint. I've already mentioned that I'm not siding with anyone.

I have posted several documents surrounding who made the map and references to the Portland area multiple times with people still responding saying nothing has every ever been shown? actual FBI documents and nobody see's them or cares to acknowledge them.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

The quote above is troubling trying to move the path away from the Lake Merwin area.

The document below (posted twice) clearly states where the map came from.

Are we now compelled to believe these statements and documents are diversions. the radar operators are wrong, and now the pilots. where does it end?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 08:44:45 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6058 on: June 27, 2019, 09:24:41 AM »
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To clarify things.....

Flyjack is referring to the calculations used in a PDF about drift factors. he believes it would drift a lot further than the calculations R99 speaks of. nobody has shown any calculations (publicly). the drift distance basically tells that. he's quoted that several times.

I never asked you to post anything about his comments. I simply responded to the comment due to a complaint. I've already mentioned that I'm not siding with anyone.

I have posted several documents surrounding who made the map and references to the Portland area multiple times with people still responding saying nothing has every ever been shown? actual FBI documents and nobody see's them or cares to acknowledge them.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

The quote above is troubling trying to move the path away from the Lake Merwin area.

The document below (posted twice) clearly states where the map came from.

Are we now compelled to believe these statements and documents are diversions. the radar operators are wrong, and now the pilots. where does it end?

I'm not debating whether the map was provided by McChord AFB. I'm debating whether it's accurate.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #6059 on: June 27, 2019, 12:05:07 PM »
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To clarify things.....

Flyjack is referring to the calculations used in a PDF about drift factors. he believes it would drift a lot further than the calculations R99 speaks of. nobody has shown any calculations (publicly). the drift distance basically tells that. he's quoted that several times.

I never asked you to post anything about his comments. I simply responded to the comment due to a complaint. I've already mentioned that I'm not siding with anyone.

I have posted several documents surrounding who made the map and references to the Portland area multiple times with people still responding saying nothing has every ever been shown? actual FBI documents and nobody see's them or cares to acknowledge them.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

The quote above is troubling trying to move the path away from the Lake Merwin area.

The document below (posted twice) clearly states where the map came from.

Are we now compelled to believe these statements and documents are diversions. the radar operators are wrong, and now the pilots. where does it end?

I'm not debating whether the map was provided by McChord AFB. I'm debating whether it's accurate.

I'm not sure exactly what Shutter is referring to but the take-off time from SEATAC was 7:36PM PST according to Captain Scott and that time was used in all my calculations.

The time that the placard separated from the airliner is not known but could be estimated if the flight path was accurately known.  The time of the jump was estimated by the flight crew as being about 8:11 or 8:12PM PST.  And at that time, the airliner was in the vicinity of Tina Bar.

The flight crew did NOT know their exact location at the time of the jump and, according to Rataczak, told the people on the ARINC hook-up to "mark your maps".  This means that the airliner was NOT on V-23 at the time of the jump but was being vectored by ATC direct from the Malay Intersection to the Canby Intersection and bypassing Portland on the west side.

Lake Merwin doesn't figure into this in any realistic manner.  The towns of Woodland and La Center are both WEST of the centerline of V-23.  Since it was night time and the airliner was above an overcast and several other layers of clouds, the flight crew would NOT be able to give a jump location based on visual sightings of landmarks on the ground.
 
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