Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1856226 times)

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4950 on: May 06, 2018, 03:30:19 PM »
Ok
 

FLYJACK

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4951 on: May 06, 2018, 03:50:33 PM »
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Ok

You don't need to say ok all the time.

but,
That perpetual conflict is what makes this case so challengingly difficult. The harder you look into something the more contradictions appear. Facts seem solid and clear on the surface, but bottomless and mirky at depth..

The Cooper Vortex,, A real puzzle, wrapped in an enigma, doused in a mystery, packed in a riddle, smothered with secrecy and tied up in a conundrum.. with a potential conspiracy on the side.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 03:54:43 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4952 on: May 06, 2018, 05:21:06 PM »
in reply to shutter


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Now, are we really accusing a well known, and respected parachute rigger of wrong doings with switching chutes in canopies? I thought these were the guys you trusted with your life?

Hayden's chute was packed by Cossey. this is probably why he stated they were his chutes. how many people claim things while working that are not really there's? the police, "what are you doing in my town" Store manager " stock my shelves" etc. etc.

I think the Amboy chute has destroyed enough of the Cooper case. I was hoping the video would help, but it appears to only add fuel to the conspiracies?

It's also my understanding that there is a difference between a dummy chute, and a practice chute. dummy chutes usually contain rubber foam, while practice chutes have some what of a functional canopy in them. this was explained to me by Matthew Cline on the DZ some years back. I believe he is a well respected jumper by all?

maybe this answers your question
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4953 on: May 06, 2018, 07:20:39 PM »
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It says cossey packed the parachutes that went to flight 305

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That isn't the dispute.. the "dispute" is who actually owned the chutes that were used and which one Cooper used. Cossey and Hayden stories conflict and the FBI docs conflict.

Maybe they both sent chutes but only 2 were used creating the confusion, who knows, Cooper Vortex strikes again.

That's why I stated earlier if it was possible that 4 chutes showed up but was never documented...you would think someone would of clarified this down the road though...
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4954 on: May 06, 2018, 07:59:26 PM »
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is this helpful shutter

or anybody else
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4955 on: May 06, 2018, 09:08:23 PM »
we drifted away from my original question..I simply asked the question of it being odd that Cossey knew the chutes didn't have D rings. he must of known Hayden supplied chutes as well to make the statement that has turned out to be accurate. the D rings are missing..the FBI wouldn't of known. they didn't have a clue one of the chutes were bad.
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4956 on: May 06, 2018, 09:24:20 PM »
Didnt cossey pack the chutes shutter
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4957 on: May 06, 2018, 09:27:31 PM »
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Didnt cossey pack the chutes shutter

Yes, he packed all 4 chutes...that's what he did along with skydiving..very well known and respected rigger..
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4958 on: May 06, 2018, 09:33:57 PM »
So wouldnt he have seen the rings were missing
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4959 on: May 06, 2018, 10:22:35 PM »
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So wouldnt he have seen the rings were missing

You don't seem to be following...the 2 chutes missing the D rings were in Haydens possession, not Cossey. he obviously knew Hayden supplied the chutes or he couldn't state the D rings were missing..Cossey explains that all 4 chutes came from him..see a problem? now, it's possible Cossey made these statements because they were his chutes at one time..it appears he could of remembered the chutes from the time he packed them but also claims he gave them the chutes..it can't go both ways..documents show Hayden's involvement..it will give you a headache rather quickly...
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4960 on: May 06, 2018, 10:45:22 PM »
thank you shutter

i think i understand now
 

Seatac

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4961 on: May 09, 2018, 10:27:12 PM »
Parts of several theories, not all my own.  We are many.

Dan Cooper was in the Pacific Northwest testing the vulnerabilities of the country’s transportation infrastructure.  The bomb in the briefcase had traveled to several different places and exposed vulnerabilities in different areas, to include air travel. 

He was doing a job.  He was calm, he was nice to the crew, he let the passengers go.  He was not worried about snipers. 

It was a good act, complete with a grudge.  The grudge?  One might look at mergers of transportation corporations in the Northeast in the late 1960’s, and a big bankruptcy that followed in 1970 in the same industry.  How many people lost jobs?

It’s doubtful that Dan Cooper was a paratrooper.  If you were blown off the drop zone at Salerno or jumped at night into France, the last thing you want to do in your later years is parachute out of a passenger plane.  You’ve have had your fill.  A parachutist knows just enough to realize that this was not a good jump to make.  The speed, at night, the weather, the temperature, into mountains and forest.  Dan Cooper knew just enough to be dangerous.  Maybe the plan was to never jump in the first place, and then something or someone changed it. 

Dan Cooper said McChord Air Force Base was a 20-minute drive away.  Why not say Fort Lewis was a 20-minute drive away?  Who talks in terms of air bases and not ground bases? How about Army Air Corps?   Even a plane mechanic or airfield worker would have learned the basics of a parachute.  Maybe he knew the West Coast of the United States, further west than Washington/Oregon. Maybe he had been there before, when he gave up some of the best years of his life like so many others in the Greatest Generation.

How’d he get to the airport?  How did he get away? Where would titanium be found outside of production? Titanium has to go somewhere, it had to be transported.  Trains.  The dynamite sticks? Railroad flares.  Maybe he knew a lot more about trains than just being a passenger.  Maybe it was in his blood.  Did anyone ever check the trains?
What are the landmarks that one could see outside of an airplane window at night?  Interstate 5, the Lake Merwin Dam, and the main line of the newly consolidated Burlington Northern Railroad that paralleled Interstate 5, and that just happened to have branches right near the suspected drop zone. 

He would have practiced his jump.  Probably on the West Coast in the summer/fall of 1971.  Somewhere there is a list of names.  FOIA put this one on a silver platter for someone. Complete with the Raleigh cigarettes.

The composites all look different.  The color ones will be the best match.  The eyes and the hair will likely be indisputable.  Maybe a piece of Bill Mitchell’s testimony will fit. Maybe the nose is different.  Composite sketches are never perfect.  The witnesses said the real person looked older than the sketches and that his hair looked dyed.

There are many ways someone can have a neutral accent and not live in Canada or the Midwest or the Pac Northwest.

The tie? Maybe he leaves it as a calling card to let people know he accomplished his mission.  The tie would have absorbed particles during transit or transport of materials, he didn’t have to work in the aircraft industry or industrial chemicals.  Or maybe it really did come from a pawn shop.

Some observations on Max Gunther from the articles.  LeClair talked to Gunther and changed facts, and then Gunther changed facts when he wrote the book. Throw in Clara and her story and you have many dots to connect, but there is a chance that some of the dots will connect.  Remember, someone could have used a friend’s life story to throw us off.  I’m told I should read it.  My copy is coming soon.  Some think it is the Holy Grail.  They say the birthdays match up.  Robert DeNiro was more popular in the 1970’s than Ben Gazzara. 

Dan Cooper made air travel safer; security in our transportation infrastructure improved.  Hundreds of newspaper articles were written, books, magazines, TV shows, movies, t-shirts.  This gave purpose to so many people’s lives.  People made thousands of dollars, maybe millions.  Maybe the money never appeared because it went right back where it started (minus a little bit that got lost in a creek near Battle Ground or was purposely dropped further upstream years later).  Maybe he was paid a small sum, enough for a nice dinner with his wife, then he went right back to work, and then a few years later passed away peacefully in his sleep.  Some people know who he is.

Rest in peace Dan Cooper.  If a debt was owed to society, you paid it off long ago.
 

Offline DovidFraiman

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4962 on: May 09, 2018, 11:08:02 PM »
In reply to seatac

I believe bill mitchell said db cooper had a turkey neck


Dan and joe lord both had turkey necks
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4963 on: May 09, 2018, 11:35:21 PM »
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Parts of several theories, not all my own.  We are many.

Dan Cooper was in the Pacific Northwest testing the vulnerabilities of the country’s transportation infrastructure.  The bomb in the briefcase had traveled to several different places and exposed vulnerabilities in different areas, to include air travel. 

He was doing a job.  He was calm, he was nice to the crew, he let the passengers go.  He was not worried about snipers. 

It was a good act, complete with a grudge.  The grudge?  One might look at mergers of transportation corporations in the Northeast in the late 1960’s, and a big bankruptcy that followed in 1970 in the same industry.  How many people lost jobs?

It’s doubtful that Dan Cooper was a paratrooper.  If you were blown off the drop zone at Salerno or jumped at night into France, the last thing you want to do in your later years is parachute out of a passenger plane.  You’ve have had your fill.  A parachutist knows just enough to realize that this was not a good jump to make.  The speed, at night, the weather, the temperature, into mountains and forest.  Dan Cooper knew just enough to be dangerous.  Maybe the plan was to never jump in the first place, and then something or someone changed it. 

Dan Cooper said McChord Air Force Base was a 20-minute drive away.  Why not say Fort Lewis was a 20-minute drive away?  Who talks in terms of air bases and not ground bases? How about Army Air Corps?   Even a plane mechanic or airfield worker would have learned the basics of a parachute.  Maybe he knew the West Coast of the United States, further west than Washington/Oregon. Maybe he had been there before, when he gave up some of the best years of his life like so many others in the Greatest Generation.

How’d he get to the airport?  How did he get away? Where would titanium be found outside of production? Titanium has to go somewhere, it had to be transported.  Trains.  The dynamite sticks? Railroad flares.  Maybe he knew a lot more about trains than just being a passenger.  Maybe it was in his blood.  Did anyone ever check the trains?
What are the landmarks that one could see outside of an airplane window at night?  Interstate 5, the Lake Merwin Dam, and the main line of the newly consolidated Burlington Northern Railroad that paralleled Interstate 5, and that just happened to have branches right near the suspected drop zone. 

He would have practiced his jump.  Probably on the West Coast in the summer/fall of 1971.  Somewhere there is a list of names.  FOIA put this one on a silver platter for someone. Complete with the Raleigh cigarettes.

The composites all look different.  The color ones will be the best match.  The eyes and the hair will likely be indisputable.  Maybe a piece of Bill Mitchell’s testimony will fit. Maybe the nose is different.  Composite sketches are never perfect.  The witnesses said the real person looked older than the sketches and that his hair looked dyed.

There are many ways someone can have a neutral accent and not live in Canada or the Midwest or the Pac Northwest.

The tie? Maybe he leaves it as a calling card to let people know he accomplished his mission.  The tie would have absorbed particles during transit or transport of materials, he didn’t have to work in the aircraft industry or industrial chemicals.  Or maybe it really did come from a pawn shop.

Some observations on Max Gunther from the articles.  LeClair talked to Gunther and changed facts, and then Gunther changed facts when he wrote the book. Throw in Clara and her story and you have many dots to connect, but there is a chance that some of the dots will connect.  Remember, someone could have used a friend’s life story to throw us off.  I’m told I should read it.  My copy is coming soon.  Some think it is the Holy Grail.  They say the birthdays match up.  Robert DeNiro was more popular in the 1970’s than Ben Gazzara. 

Dan Cooper made air travel safer; security in our transportation infrastructure improved.  Hundreds of newspaper articles were written, books, magazines, TV shows, movies, t-shirts.  This gave purpose to so many people’s lives.  People made thousands of dollars, maybe millions.  Maybe the money never appeared because it went right back where it started (minus a little bit that got lost in a creek near Battle Ground or was purposely dropped further upstream years later).  Maybe he was paid a small sum, enough for a nice dinner with his wife, then he went right back to work, and then a few years later passed away peacefully in his sleep.  Some people know who he is.

Rest in peace Dan Cooper.  If a debt was owed to society, you paid it off long ago.

The bomb in the briefcase had traveled to several different places and exposed vulnerabilities in different areas, to include air travel. 

Above is total conjecture.

Experts who have studied the bomb say 50-50 on it being real. Same odds as flipping a coin. They base this on the technical descriptions of the bomb by people who saw it, its components, stick colors, and wiring described in some detail (including wire colors) by Mucklow and Flo.

Himmelsbach's assertion that dynamite does not come in red was totally wrong. You could have purchased red dynamite within two miles of his office! Red  and different shades of red was common for dynamite in 1971. Availability varied by vendor, brand, and location only. The red wire going to the middle of bundle of eight sticks taped together favors a single dynamite igniter (blasting cap). Cooper held two black wires in his fingers (saying 'if I touch these together'). One wire went back joining the red wire in the middle of the sticks and the other was attached to a terminal on the 1.5vdc dry cell.   

Experts say if the sticks had been fusees not even a blasting cap would have ignited them (causing them to burn).  Tests were performed on facsimile bombs following Cooper's design.

<edit>  No red tape was seen in the bomb. The only 'tape' seen by the witnesses was black electrical tape holding the group of 4+4=8 sticks together. This negates the RMB contention the sticks were rolls of coins surrounded by red tape! That assertion is silly.

The possibility of a real bomb raises the issue of who Cooper was - would someone known to the airline risk his remains being identified after the fact, if it came to that? Someone like Kenny Christiansen! If the bomb was real Cooper had a profile allowing for that option. That personality profile tends to rule out a number of suspects but includes people who were willing to risk death in the commission of this crime. Two of those ruled out would be Kenny Christiansen and Duane Weber, based on psychological profile alone! 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 12:18:30 AM by georger »
 
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Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4964 on: May 10, 2018, 01:04:37 AM »
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Parts of several theories, not all my own.  We are many.

Dan Cooper was in the Pacific Northwest testing the vulnerabilities of the country’s transportation infrastructure.  The bomb in the briefcase had traveled to several different places and exposed vulnerabilities in different areas, to include air travel. 

He was doing a job.  He was calm, he was nice to the crew, he let the passengers go.  He was not worried about snipers. 

It was a good act, complete with a grudge.  The grudge?  One might look at mergers of transportation corporations in the Northeast in the late 1960’s, and a big bankruptcy that followed in 1970 in the same industry.  How many people lost jobs?

It’s doubtful that Dan Cooper was a paratrooper.  If you were blown off the drop zone at Salerno or jumped at night into France, the last thing you want to do in your later years is parachute out of a passenger plane.  You’ve have had your fill.  A parachutist knows just enough to realize that this was not a good jump to make.  The speed, at night, the weather, the temperature, into mountains and forest.  Dan Cooper knew just enough to be dangerous.  Maybe the plan was to never jump in the first place, and then something or someone changed it. 

Dan Cooper said McChord Air Force Base was a 20-minute drive away.  Why not say Fort Lewis was a 20-minute drive away?  Who talks in terms of air bases and not ground bases? How about Army Air Corps?   Even a plane mechanic or airfield worker would have learned the basics of a parachute.  Maybe he knew the West Coast of the United States, further west than Washington/Oregon. Maybe he had been there before, when he gave up some of the best years of his life like so many others in the Greatest Generation.

How’d he get to the airport?  How did he get away? Where would titanium be found outside of production? Titanium has to go somewhere, it had to be transported.  Trains.  The dynamite sticks? Railroad flares.  Maybe he knew a lot more about trains than just being a passenger.  Maybe it was in his blood.  Did anyone ever check the trains?
What are the landmarks that one could see outside of an airplane window at night?  Interstate 5, the Lake Merwin Dam, and the main line of the newly consolidated Burlington Northern Railroad that paralleled Interstate 5, and that just happened to have branches right near the suspected drop zone. 

He would have practiced his jump.  Probably on the West Coast in the summer/fall of 1971.  Somewhere there is a list of names.  FOIA put this one on a silver platter for someone. Complete with the Raleigh cigarettes.

The composites all look different.  The color ones will be the best match.  The eyes and the hair will likely be indisputable.  Maybe a piece of Bill Mitchell’s testimony will fit. Maybe the nose is different.  Composite sketches are never perfect.  The witnesses said the real person looked older than the sketches and that his hair looked dyed.

There are many ways someone can have a neutral accent and not live in Canada or the Midwest or the Pac Northwest.

The tie? Maybe he leaves it as a calling card to let people know he accomplished his mission.  The tie would have absorbed particles during transit or transport of materials, he didn’t have to work in the aircraft industry or industrial chemicals.  Or maybe it really did come from a pawn shop.

Some observations on Max Gunther from the articles.  LeClair talked to Gunther and changed facts, and then Gunther changed facts when he wrote the book. Throw in Clara and her story and you have many dots to connect, but there is a chance that some of the dots will connect.  Remember, someone could have used a friend’s life story to throw us off.  I’m told I should read it.  My copy is coming soon.  Some think it is the Holy Grail.  They say the birthdays match up.  Robert DeNiro was more popular in the 1970’s than Ben Gazzara. 

Dan Cooper made air travel safer; security in our transportation infrastructure improved.  Hundreds of newspaper articles were written, books, magazines, TV shows, movies, t-shirts.  This gave purpose to so many people’s lives.  People made thousands of dollars, maybe millions.  Maybe the money never appeared because it went right back where it started (minus a little bit that got lost in a creek near Battle Ground or was purposely dropped further upstream years later).  Maybe he was paid a small sum, enough for a nice dinner with his wife, then he went right back to work, and then a few years later passed away peacefully in his sleep.  Some people know who he is.

Rest in peace Dan Cooper.  If a debt was owed to society, you paid it off long ago.

Cooper was worried about snipers which is why he spent so much time in the rear of the aircraft and in the aft rest room during the time the plane was on the ground at SEATAC.

In all probability, Cooper said McChord AFB because he was told the parachutes were coming from McChord AFB.  Cooper then told the stews he wanted civilian parachutes rather than military ones.  It was common knowledge in 1971 that pingers were packed into military parachutes to help locate the parachutist.

Since the airliner was above an overcast plus about three additional cloud layers, there is no way Cooper could have identified any landmarks to determine his location.

Cooper's jump was intended to be a night jump from the beginning.  He specified that the money and parachutes were to be at SEATAC by 5:00PM.  Then the airliner would refuel adding more ground time.  Sunset at SEATAC on the date of the hijacking was about 4:45PM plus there were high clouds which shortened twilight time.

So you think that Cooper would practice a night time jump in bad weather into an area that was filled with high trees and rivers and lakes full of water?  All of this in 40 degree temperatures for which he was not dressed.

FOIA doesn't mean a damn thing when the FBI and FAA deliberately ignore it with false statements.

Welcome to Cooper world.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 01:06:52 AM by Robert99 »