Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1862160 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4575 on: March 09, 2018, 08:46:03 PM »
A Pressing Off-Topic Question - the remains of Amelia Earhart

Since we have discussed Amelia from time-to-time, what's this about her bones being discovered in the SW Pacific?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4576 on: March 09, 2018, 08:51:00 PM »
Sure, let it slide...society does a lot of that lately...they try and blame other things for it too..

Quote
That said, Blevins is part of the Norjak story, as is Jo Weber. The salient question is what we do about them.

that's your choice, it's your forum..I decided not to allow them on here..especially Robert...we all know the tricks he pulled when the forum started..then the constant personal attacks while on the DZ..Jo, she's another case in itself..I like Jo, but I had to block her recently from my email..I just couldn't take anymore of the same old story...she told me multiple times she doesn't wish to post here anyway..I can't imagine how many emails the FBI have from her...every email she sends has them attached..

something horrible happened down here because people decided not to do anything...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 06:43:00 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4577 on: March 09, 2018, 09:37:43 PM »
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A Pressing Off-Topic Question - the remains of Amelia Earhart

Since we have discussed Amelia from time-to-time, what's this about her bones being discovered in the SW Pacific?

I saw a headline, but haven't had the chance to read into it. If it's anything like the Cooper saga, headlines are very misleading. Is there anything to it?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4578 on: March 09, 2018, 09:47:57 PM »
Haven't read it yet...

Bones discovered on a Pacific island in 1940 are "likely" to be those of famed pilot Amelia Earhart, according to a US peer reviewed science journal.

Earhart, her plane, and her navigator vanished without a trace in 1937 over the Pacific Ocean. Many theories have sought to explain her disappearance.

But a new study published in Forensic Anthropology claims these bones prove she died as an island castaway.
The report claims they are a 99% match, contradicting an earlier conclusion.

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« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 09:48:51 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4579 on: March 09, 2018, 09:55:13 PM »
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A Pressing Off-Topic Question - the remains of Amelia Earhart

Since we have discussed Amelia from time-to-time, what's this about her bones being discovered in the SW Pacific?

I saw a headline, but haven't had the chance to read into it. If it's anything like the Cooper saga, headlines are very misleading. Is there anything to it?

As Robert99 has said many times, for Amelia Earhart's bones to be found on Nakumarroro Island, she would have to been way of course.  That's 400 miles from Howland Island.

The story says they are doing an analysis of bones that were discarded in 1940.  So, it can't be proven either way.

Robert99 is really the expert on this, so I usually defer to him, but from my reading, the way they would determine which direction to fly when close to the target is rotate the antenna while the destination was broadcasting -- and whichever direction it was loudest, that was the direction to travel.  When Earhart did that, she supposedly turned the antenna all the away around and it was loud every at every point.  She even says something to the effect of "I must be right on top of you, but I can't see you."  If that's the case, and she was flying at about 140 miles per hour, it would have taken her almost three hours to get Nakumarroro from "on top" of Howland Island.   There wouldn't have been time for that.

But, as always, I'm curious what Robert99 has to say.
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4580 on: March 09, 2018, 10:33:47 PM »
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A Pressing Off-Topic Question - the remains of Amelia Earhart

Since we have discussed Amelia from time-to-time, what's this about her bones being discovered in the SW Pacific?

I saw a headline, but haven't had the chance to read into it. If it's anything like the Cooper saga, headlines are very misleading. Is there anything to it?

As Robert99 has said many times, for Amelia Earhart's bones to be found on Nakumarroro Island, she would have to been way of course.  That's 400 miles from Howland Island.


Damn. That sounds like the Tena Bar money!!
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4581 on: March 09, 2018, 11:18:39 PM »
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Sure, let it slide...society does a lot of that lately...they try and blame other things for it too..

...something horrible happened down here because people decided not to do anything...

Okay. I'm remove anything that is offensive, Shut, but you have to help me. What passages are objectionable? Can you cut and paste them to me?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4582 on: March 09, 2018, 11:21:18 PM »
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Sure, let it slide...society does a lot of that lately...they try and blame other things for it too..

...something horrible happened down here because people decided not to do anything...

Okay. I'm remove anything that is offensive, Shut, but you have to help me. What passages are objectionable? Can you cut and paste them to me?

Never mind...it went way over your head...
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4583 on: March 09, 2018, 11:37:12 PM »
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If I was errant in not erasing false statements about you at the MN, Shutter, I apologize. In my defense, I simply didn't have the patience or visual acuity to read ALL of the dozens of posts, and ascertain which ones were objectionable.

Frankly, I don't think too many other people read the mess at the MN, either, so the negative consequences to you should be minimal. But if your reputation is impacted at an unacceptable level, I will endeavor to resolve it. For now, how about we let this flood of crapola slide under the bridge?

As for Blevins, my policy is not to engage him. I rarely read his emails and posts, and only in the most extreme of circumstances do I respond to him. It's like wrestling with a pig. Every one gets muddy, but only the pig enjoys it.

That said, Blevins is part of the Norjak story, as is Jo Weber. The salient question is what we do about them.

"That said, Blevins is part of the Norjak story, as is Jo Weber. The salient question is what we do about them."

Really!? Then flush!
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4584 on: March 10, 2018, 01:37:57 AM »
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A Pressing Off-Topic Question - the remains of Amelia Earhart

Since we have discussed Amelia from time-to-time, what's this about her bones being discovered in the SW Pacific?

I saw a headline, but haven't had the chance to read into it. If it's anything like the Cooper saga, headlines are very misleading. Is there anything to it?

As Robert99 has said many times, for Amelia Earhart's bones to be found on Nakumarroro Island, she would have to been way of course.  That's 400 miles from Howland Island.

The story says they are doing an analysis of bones that were discarded in 1940.  So, it can't be proven either way.

Robert99 is really the expert on this, so I usually defer to him, but from my reading, the way they would determine which direction to fly when close to the target is rotate the antenna while the destination was broadcasting -- and whichever direction it was loudest, that was the direction to travel.  When Earhart did that, she supposedly turned the antenna all the away around and it was loud every at every point.  She even says something to the effect of "I must be right on top of you, but I can't see you."  If that's the case, and she was flying at about 140 miles per hour, it would have taken her almost three hours to get Nakumarroro from "on top" of Howland Island.   There wouldn't have been time for that.

But, as always, I'm curious what Robert99 has to say.

Mark, I hope to do some write ups someday on this matter but until I have more free time, here is a very brief outline of what I think happened to Amelia Earhardt and Fred Noonan.  I'll comment at a later time on their possible radio problems, the poor coordination between Amelia and the Coast Guard (Amelia didn't attend the coordination meeting, Putnam did but he didn't have any aeronautical qualifications in the first place), and other matters.

The first two radio transmissions from Amelia that are of the greatest interest to me are the ones where she said they were 200 miles from Howland and then exactly 30 minutes later another transmission said that they were 100 miles from Howland.  While it is likely that those distances were just estimates, it is unlikely that the airliner was capable of flying at 200 MPH.  About 150 MPH would be more like it.

So in my opinion, Amelia and Fred were very unsure of their position as the sun was coming up and they were having to switch from night star fixes to other types of fixes during daylight.  And, of course, they were expected at Howland just after sunrise so these two things come together at the worst time.  Presumably, they could have arrived at Howland by using the "offset" method which requires flying to a point offset from Howland (probably to the NNW in this case) then turning toward Howland.  This type of approach requires knowing where you are reasonably well when you start it.  Then flying a precise heading for a precise time which should put you abeam of Howland, and then turning 90 degrees (to the right in this case) and continue to fly a precise heading for another precise period of time which should put you over Howland. 

There are indications from a later transmission that they were flying along a line using headings that were perpendicular from the direct course line between Lae and Howland.  This meant that they had used the offset approach to begin with or had improvised one after their radio navigation efforts were unsuccessful.  According to pilots who have flown over Howland Island, it is very difficult to locate visually even from less than 10 miles away. 

So to make a long story very short, in my opinion, Amelia and Fred OVERSHOT Howland Island and ended up in the water and probably in the Northeast quadrant from Howland.

It is the TIGHAR (I think I got all the letters in it) organization that has long been claiming that Amelia and Fred ended up at Nakumarroro Island.  This organization has claimed that they found a woman's shoe heel that was suppose to be Amelia's size on the Island, that they also found a glass jar that could have been Amelia's freckle cream jar (I have never seen another mention of Amelia and freckles in the same sentence anywhere), that they found Fred's navigation "desk" (it wasn't), that a picture of something faintly visible sticking out of the water just off shore of Nakumarroro was the wheel of the upside down aircraft (it was probably just a defect in a decades old photograph), and other such claims that proved to be baseless.  A few years ago, a wealthy individual who had donated one million bucks to TIGHAR to support the Amelia research, sued them to get his money back and claimed that they had lied to him in order to obtain the money.  Of course, TIGHAR denied everything.

On the current story about the bone, the claim seems to be that it was originally identified around 1940 as being from a man.  Now it is claimed to be from a woman whose arms were about the same length as Amelia's.  So TIGHAR is apparently trying to raise money for another expedition to Nakumarroro.

Or to put it another way, the claims about the arm, heel, jar, and everything else is baloney. 



 
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georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4585 on: March 10, 2018, 04:18:45 PM »
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A Pressing Off-Topic Question - the remains of Amelia Earhart

Since we have discussed Amelia from time-to-time, what's this about her bones being discovered in the SW Pacific?

I saw a headline, but haven't had the chance to read into it. If it's anything like the Cooper saga, headlines are very misleading. Is there anything to it?

As Robert99 has said many times, for Amelia Earhart's bones to be found on Nakumarroro Island, she would have to been way of course.  That's 400 miles from Howland Island.

The story says they are doing an analysis of bones that were discarded in 1940.  So, it can't be proven either way.

Robert99 is really the expert on this, so I usually defer to him, but from my reading, the way they would determine which direction to fly when close to the target is rotate the antenna while the destination was broadcasting -- and whichever direction it was loudest, that was the direction to travel.  When Earhart did that, she supposedly turned the antenna all the away around and it was loud every at every point.  She even says something to the effect of "I must be right on top of you, but I can't see you."  If that's the case, and she was flying at about 140 miles per hour, it would have taken her almost three hours to get Nakumarroro from "on top" of Howland Island.   There wouldn't have been time for that.

But, as always, I'm curious what Robert99 has to say.

Mark, I hope to do some write ups someday on this matter but until I have more free time, here is a very brief outline of what I think happened to Amelia Earhardt and Fred Noonan.  I'll comment at a later time on their possible radio problems, the poor coordination between Amelia and the Coast Guard (Amelia didn't attend the coordination meeting, Putnam did but he didn't have any aeronautical qualifications in the first place), and other matters.

The first two radio transmissions from Amelia that are of the greatest interest to me are the ones where she said they were 200 miles from Howland and then exactly 30 minutes later another transmission said that they were 100 miles from Howland.  While it is likely that those distances were just estimates, it is unlikely that the airliner was capable of flying at 200 MPH.  About 150 MPH would be more like it.

So in my opinion, Amelia and Fred were very unsure of their position as the sun was coming up and they were having to switch from night star fixes to other types of fixes during daylight.  And, of course, they were expected at Howland just after sunrise so these two things come together at the worst time.  Presumably, they could have arrived at Howland by using the "offset" method which requires flying to a point offset from Howland (probably to the NNW in this case) then turning toward Howland.  This type of approach requires knowing where you are reasonably well when you start it.  Then flying a precise heading for a precise time which should put you abeam of Howland, and then turning 90 degrees (to the right in this case) and continue to fly a precise heading for another precise period of time which should put you over Howland. 

There are indications from a later transmission that they were flying along a line using headings that were perpendicular from the direct course line between Lae and Howland.  This meant that they had used the offset approach to begin with or had improvised one after their radio navigation efforts were unsuccessful.  According to pilots who have flown over Howland Island, it is very difficult to locate visually even from less than 10 miles away. 

So to make a long story very short, in my opinion, Amelia and Fred OVERSHOT Howland Island and ended up in the water and probably in the Northeast quadrant from Howland.

It is the TIGHAR (I think I got all the letters in it) organization that has long been claiming that Amelia and Fred ended up at Nakumarroro Island.  This organization has claimed that they found a woman's shoe heel that was suppose to be Amelia's size on the Island, that they also found a glass jar that could have been Amelia's freckle cream jar (I have never seen another mention of Amelia and freckles in the same sentence anywhere), that they found Fred's navigation "desk" (it wasn't), that a picture of something faintly visible sticking out of the water just off shore of Nakumarroro was the wheel of the upside down aircraft (it was probably just a defect in a decades old photograph), and other such claims that proved to be baseless.  A few years ago, a wealthy individual who had donated one million bucks to TIGHAR to support the Amelia research, sued them to get his money back and claimed that they had lied to him in order to obtain the money.  Of course, TIGHAR denied everything.

On the current story about the bone, the claim seems to be that it was originally identified around 1940 as being from a man.  Now it is claimed to be from a woman whose arms were about the same length as Amelia's.  So TIGHAR is apparently trying to raise money for another expedition to Nakumarroro.

Or to put it another way, the claims about the arm, heel, jar, and everything else is baloney.

Try this based on a search: Rockwell Collins and Amelia Earhart: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

A news article from 2009: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It was about a year ago a new effort by several Rockwell people was announced. Amateur Radio Links Search for Amelia Earhart’s Plane with ISS Crew, Classroom 03/23/2017 -  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   

And this more recent: Mar 6, 2017 - Uploaded by Nauticos, LLC - Amelia's Last Flight — Radio Signal Analysis, Rod Blocksome, Rockwell Collins. Nauticos, LLC. Loading ... 

I think this latest group calls itself : "Nauticos, LLC" Published on Mar 6, 2017 on Youtube. They are older Avonics people from Rockwell-Collins. These people show up every now and then at meetings I used to be involved with. I dont know these people personally but I do know they were looking for donations to their effort last year.

Thats about all I know about this. The search has been going on for so many years without anything definite. It is however very clear R99 has the communications and planning issues nailed. Earhart and Noonan appear to have been so self-confident that they apparently thought more definite planning was unnecessary, which lead to their demise; in a situation where something was definitely going to go wrong, there was very high risk and a certainty of error with no way to recover when something did go wrong. This trip was a cluster-fuck from the beginning. The Howland part of this trip was a suicide mission the way Earhart and Noonan conducted it. 

Were dna tests ever run on the bones?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 04:47:53 PM by georger »
 
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Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4586 on: March 10, 2018, 04:52:46 PM »
Georger, there was no reference to DNA testing in the recent arm bone story about Amelia Earhardt.  The "expert" apparently based his 99 percent statement on just the length of the arm bone he had plus his estimate of the length of the similar bone in Amelia's arm as viewed from a photograph of her.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2018, 04:53:58 PM by Robert99 »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4587 on: March 10, 2018, 04:54:26 PM »
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Georger, there was no reference to DNA testing in the recent arm bone story about Amelia Earhardt.  The "expert" apparently based his 99 percent statement on just the length of the arm bone he had plus his estimate of the length of the similar bone in Amelia's arm as viewed from a photograph of her.

Thats what I heard - bad science in need of peer review!  :nono:
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4588 on: March 10, 2018, 04:57:37 PM »
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Georger, there was no reference to DNA testing in the recent arm bone story about Amelia Earhardt.  The "expert" apparently based his 99 percent statement on just the length of the arm bone he had plus his estimate of the length of the similar bone in Amelia's arm as viewed from a photograph of her.

Thats what I heard - bad science in need of peer review!  :nono:

Exactly!
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #4589 on: March 10, 2018, 08:23:27 PM »
What does this boil down to, more of a splash than finding land to survive? Ben Stiller should of asked her what happened in the film Night at the Museum, Battle of the Smithsonian  :rofl: