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[Shutter]

Does it have the strength to move "money" 10 miles in 8 hours? That is what I am looking at, but if one dismiss it entirely due to common sense bias, they'll never really know.

this will be my third attempt of stating my conclusion is not "entirely based on common sense"

You can't possibly believe reverse flow for 8 hours will gain more distance than the natural flow which would be a period of 16 hours. you are also basing this on a common, or daily basis. if it wasn't, where would the money go, nowhere until the reverse flow starts again? it can't just keep going upstream and nowhere else?

[FLYJACK]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

no propeller theory,

We have Kermit's anecdotal plus hydrologist confirmation that the Columbia flow reversal goes well beyond TBAR..

Now, can it move some bundles of cash 15 km from the Lewis, that it the question. Seems hard to believe but it can't be ruled out with forum hyperbole.

Maybe a bag full of ping pong balls can get moved upstream 10 miles via flow reversal, but a waterlogged 20-lb bag of money rolling along the bottom of river, upstream?  Seems a bit of a stretch.  Would have to bre one heck of a flow reversal to get that money bag back to Tina Bar, past all the barriers that would come along as the bag flowed upstream.

I'll take what Al Fazio says about tides at Tina Bar, Bruce Smith, over what you say about the tides at Tina Bar, any day.  You're such an expert now after taking a little dip in the Columbia River on that hot, sunny day....right.  You're a Flatbush kind of guy alright -- mafioso or black leather jacket-motorcycle kind of guy - yeah, that's you, tough guy.

Meyer

I agree, it sounds far fetched that a 20lb bag of money could get pushed 10 miles up the river bottom. Maybe it wasn't in a 20lb bag at that time.. the flow reversal is strongest on the bottom, it can even flow up on the bottom and down over the top or up the side and down the middle...

Flow reversal is a low flow high tide event.

here is the daily flow, 1979 was a low year with some very low days

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[FLYJACK]

Does it have the strength to move "money" 10 miles in 8 hours? That is what I am looking at, but if one dismiss it entirely due to common sense bias, they'll never really know.

this will be my third attempt of stating my conclusion is not "entirely based on common sense"

You can't possibly believe reverse flow for 8 hours will gain more distance than the natural flow which would be a period of 16 hours. you are also basing this on a common, or daily basis. if it wasn't, where would the money go, nowhere until the reverse flow starts again? it can't just keep going upstream and nowhere else?

Maybe, I don't understand your comment...

Example, if an 8 hour Flow reversal can push money from Lewis to just beyond TBAR, then stops (just over 1mph). When flow normalizes, money then flows back downstream, either deposited onshore or on bottom near TBAR.

Remember, a flow reversal raises the water level, the end or normalization lowers the level.

[Shutter]

I haven't seen any proof this can occur over miles of the river..most of the area's are not close to Tbar, the Bonneville dam for one, another is Prescott.

I can give you data and quotes about animals dragging body parts away from the original location. I doubt we can conclude they placed parts of him near Tbar all the way from the Lewis river and that's how the money got to the beach?

[FLYJACK]

I haven't seen any proof this can occur over miles of the river..most of the area's are not close to Tbar, the Bonneville dam for one, another is Prescott.

I can give you data and quotes about animals dragging body parts away from the original location. I doubt we can conclude they placed parts of him near Tbar all the way from the Lewis river and that's how the money got to the beach?

Proof that what can occur?

There is evidence that flow reversal goes well beyond TBAR in the right conditions. We just don't know if it is strong enough to move money that far.. << that is what I am trying to answer

[Shutter]

show me the data that supports this occurrence over an 8 hour period multiple time a week, or a month.

[Bruce A. Smith]

That money was planted there, not long that long before the people found it to try and make it look like Cooper drowned.

pieces of money were found at different depths..a plant is no longer an option..

I can't find anything online saying that money was found at different dephts. I am not doubting what your saying but could post a link where I can see that. thanks

1. Read my book. Contact Amazon.
2. Visit the Mountain News-WA. net. Read all about it.
3. View my videos at YouTube. Google: Bruce Smith + DB Cooper
4. Read the segments here about the KATU-TV video; a year or so ago. Conclusive proof of the shards at depth.
5. Call me or Georger. We've both spoken with Dorwin Schroeder multiple times, and he was the PIO at T-Bar.
6. Review the findings posted at the Citizen Sleuths regarding the money fragments.

[Shutter]

you want me to believe it moved the money in ten hours with revered flow...if it's for sale, I'm sorry, but I can't buy it..to top this off. we don't even know if the money went into the Lewis river...I can't keep going with this..

CALL the Corps Engineers in Portland...very simple..

[FLYJACK]

show me the data that supports this occurrence over an 8 hour period multiple time a week, or a month.

It is more complex than that, the tidal forces are cyclical but the discharge/flow varies seasonally and dramatically over the 1970's...

check the data in this link.. compare early 70's to 1979

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I am trying to track down the work by Fread DL...

[Bruce A. Smith]

common sense, and reading about the possibilities..and limitations...

Common sense is experiential bias..  not the best tool for dismissing complex unknowns

Assumptions are needed for intellectual inquiry but using assumptions to block that inquiry is stifling and regressive. Too much of that in this case..


Generally, the Ocean tide moves up river at bottom and river down top, if the Columbia surface flow reversed then that is powerful.

Interesting stuff, FJ. Did it deposit money at T-Bar? Seems remote.

But there is another dimension to water movement in the inter-tidal areas of the PNW to consider: off-shore earthquakes and mini-tsunamis. I personally have never seen one, but I have seen videos of them. They are quite remarkable.

What happens is that there is a small slip in the deep crustal zone, such as along the Juan De Fuca plate. It displaces ocean water, causing a tsunami-like flow of water towards the shore. I've seen pix of ocean water rising about 4-5 feet in seconds, pushing huge amounts of water inland, especially in rivers. The entire event can be over in less than ten minutes.

Perhaps a one-of-a-kind anomalous event pushed a few bundles to T-Bar, and then something else happened to generate the deposits at T-Bar that are well known to us.

[Shutter]

flow reversal north of Vancouver and Portland? again, it doesn't say how strong it is, and I doubt it will do what you think it can do...


CALL THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND FIND OUT..you are not going to convince me with reports of reverse flow...a lot more is involved...

[Shutter]

The Willamette River and Lower Columbia Slough are affected by daily and seasonal tidal fl uctuations. This tidal
infl uence creates unique hydrologic conditions in the area. The twice daily tidal influence causes the Columbia
Slough and the Willamette River to reverse flow (depending on tide and river fl ow levels).

I'm guessing it will be the same where the Lewis flows in, and anything between would be minimal..

[FLYJACK]

flow reversal north of Vancouver and Portland? again, it doesn't say how strong it is, and I doubt it will do what you think it can do...


CALL THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND FIND OUT..you are not going to convince me with reports of reverse flow...a lot more is involved...

I know, that is what I am trying to solve, you want to dismiss it go ahead..

IMO, after 45+ years it is worth pursuing..  sometimes nature can do things beyond our perceptions


From my reading,,

Tidal flow pushes a wedge up the river along the bottom first with river water on top. The water level rises as incoming tidal flow progresses.

If you have a reversal on top that suggests a very strong reversal. The strongest reversal occurs at highest tides and lowest flow/discharge (1979 Columbia R).

We need to find more specific data and research on the Columbia...

Can a flow reversal push "money" at a little over 1mph from the Lewis to TBAR? That is the question

(No hydrologists were harmed in the production of this comment)

[Shutter]

yes, you need to find more information...that sounds like the plan. I've been telling you this post after post..you don't have to dig up PDF files, call the engineers and go from there..


as they say on Shark Tank...I'm out...

[georger]

flow reversal north of Vancouver and Portland? again, it doesn't say how strong it is, and I doubt it will do what you think it can do...


CALL THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND FIND OUT..you are not going to convince me with reports of reverse flow...a lot more is involved...

I know, that is what I am trying to solve, you want to dismiss it go ahead..

IMO, after 45+ years it is worth pursuing..  sometimes nature can do things beyond our perceptions


From my reading,,

Tidal flow pushes a wedge up the river along the bottom first with river water on top. The water level rises as incoming tidal flow progresses.

If you have a reversal on top that suggests a very strong reversal. The strongest reversal occurs at highest tides and lowest flow/discharge (1979 Columbia R).

We need to find more specific data and research on the Columbia...

Can a flow reversal push "money" at a little over 1mph from the Lewis to TBAR? That is the question

(No hydrologists were harmed in the production of this comment)

This is simple and absurd!

Show the world one stick or anything that has washed from the Lewis River to Tina Bar by reverse tidal action.

This aint rocket science! This is 3rd grade science.