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[andrade1812]

R99 and I should probably be discussing these issues in the flight path thread, as our posts have been intermingled with other discussions on this one, probably resulting in the current confusion.

well ... give us some names or anything else you can, anything that can be checked out, names to interview... you know the drill ........ and again Thanks.

Shutter contacted more than a few veterans who were at McChord working with SAGE; if anyone would know about the recording equipment it would be they.

[Robert99]

R99 and I should probably be discussing these issues in the flight path thread, as our posts have been intermingled with other discussions on this one, probably resulting in the current confusion.

well ... give us some names or anything else you can, anything that can be checked out, names to interview... you know the drill ........ and again Thanks.

Shutter contacted more than a few veterans who were at McChord working with SAGE; if anyone would know about the recording equipment it would be they.

Let me jump in at this point and add some things.  It is me who says that the redactions in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts are not the the controllers talking to other aircraft.  This has been discussed at great length here and at DZ.  The flight crew has stated that they made statements which should have been in that radio transcript but are not.

The statement from the FBI agent who picked up the tapes at McChord is probably posted on this site but I can't find it tonight.  It is a very short one or two paragraphs Form 302.  And I'll keep looking for it.

I don't think the SAGE radar got involved with the hijacking.  I think the only radar used was the normal air traffic control radar which was located on McChord and used by both the USAF and FAA for air traffic control purposes.

[Robert99]

On your first paragraph above, the airliner was not actually assigned a specific route as is the normal case for IFR operations today as well as in 1971.  The flight crew was told prior to take-off that they were free to do anything that they needed to do and that ATC would keep other aircraft out of their way.  It was more or less assumed that they would generally follow V-23 south and ATC told the airliner that they would keep other aircraft more than 4000 feet from them vertically.  Since the airliner was at 10,000 feet, this basically meant that there would not be other aircraft below them and that any aircraft above them would be at 14,000 feet or higher.

As you have probably noticed, there are 19 redactions (if I remember correctly) in the ATC radio transcript for the flight from SEATAC to the Fort Jones VORTAC in Northern California where the airliner was handed off to the Oakland ATC Center.  These redactions removed ever single bit of information that would help pinpoint the location of the airliner while in the Seattle ATC area.  There are no redactions whatsoever in the radio transcripts for SEATAC tower, Oakland Center, and Reno tower.

There are a number of reasons, which have been discussed at length elsewhere, for believing that the airliner did fly from the Malay Intersection direct to the Canby Intersection.  During this off-airway (but still in controlled airspace) flight, the airliner would be flying vectors provided by the appropriate Seattle ATC sector controller.  At the same time, the controller was busy trying to direct several different aircraft to intercept and trail the airliner, so he was quite busy.

"The plane was where the radar said it was." ---MGAsr

I've noticed that everywhere I go, there I am.  Is that a common thing, or is it just me?

You need to check with Bruce on this.

[Robert99]

Didn't someone claim that the ATC transcript redactions were simply traffic between ATC and other planes?

377

The FAA claimed this in responding to an FOIA by yours truly.  However, this cannot possibly be correct for reasons discussed at great length on this site and previously on DZ.

[georger]

Didn't someone claim that the ATC transcript redactions were simply traffic between ATC and other planes?

377

The FAA claimed this in responding to an FOIA by yours truly.  However, this cannot possibly be correct for reasons discussed at great length on this site and previously on DZ.

The almost 20 minute gap in Transcript comms, right after the subject has supposedly jumped, has also been 'explained away' ... by a number of people including Tom Kaye. Equipment problems. Nothing to talk about. Dead area. Nothing interesting. Not covered in the Transcript - see the NWA Transcript. etc etc etc. But we know the crew was talking to 'The company'. It's probably covered in somebody's book? 

[georger]

'Ax Men’ star Gabe Rygaard killed in head on collision west of Port Angeles, Wash., on September 16.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   He leaves a wife and three young children. 

The program 'Ax Men' had already been cancelled, in part due to endless problems. (to make way for Ancient Aliens) !   I hope somebody is watching that Ancient Alien crap!

[377]

G wrote: "The almost 20 minute gap in Transcript comms, right after the subject has supposedly jumped, has also been 'explained away' ... by a number of people including Tom Kaye. Equipment problems. Nothing to talk about. Dead area. Nothing interesting. Not covered in the Transcript - see the NWA Transcript. etc etc etc. But we know the crew was talking to 'The company'. It's probably covered in somebody's book?"

Sounds fishy indeed. Maybe TC can amend his FOIA lawsuit to specifically target this redacted info. Wonder what the hell is being concealed and why?

377

[Bruce A. Smith]

Please ask him. I have Zaid's email address if that might help. I'd do it myself but I am persona non gratuitous, remember?

Another route is to ask the FBI agents who are working with TC. One of the befuddlements of the case these days is how inactive the Cold Case Team actually is. They only seem to get into gear when TC puts something on their plate. One of the guys is a former Assistant Director of the FBI, too.

Speaking of which, so is Tom Fuentes. I wonder why he has dropped off the radar map. Doesn't he have any professional curiosity to explore the DB Cooper case?

[georger]

AF tapes not given to Bureau - says Ckret.

Ckret

Jan 30, 2008, 6:55 PM
Post #1573 of 1694 (6991 views)
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     Re: [Ckret] Recovered Ransom [In reply to]    
SCPLF, the flight path is what you have, the only detailed area of the flight path is of the area I provided. The rest of it is marked on maps and I can scan it when I get a chance, but it is not of the detail of the map I provided, it's just a map with a line on it and you have drawn the right line.

As for the radar tapes, I cannot find where the tapes were ever given to the Bureau. All of the analysis was done by the Air Force and they most likely had their own procedures for storage of such tapes that did not include giving them to the FBI.

[DovidFraiman]

do you think harold waldemar fritzler in the attached picture could be db cooper

how many people who worked at tektronix resemble florence's 1988 unsolved mysteries sketch

i believe people in general smoked more often but look at the link below in the upper right hand corner it says fritzler

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he was in the 491st bombardment group based at mcchord

he lived in the midwest until he was about 14

carol in the obituary also says he was part of the famous 101st airborne

i believe tektronix did manufacture cathode ray tubes in 1971

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please look at these links

what is your opinion

[dice]

Absolutely, Fritzler looks like the Cooper sketches,especially the brow ridge structure.... I'd say he runs second to James Klansnic, a dead ringer if there ever was one...    but yes. 

[DovidFraiman]

thank you

do you think he could be db cooper

[dice]

thank you

do you think he could be db cooper

Sure.  Alot of the key boxes get checked off with this guy, but, so do another 500 people too.
He'd have been 49, midwestern accent, looks alot like the sketch, had the skills, worked at Textronix so maybe exposed to the CRT compounds You need to look harder into his job to see if he'd have been exposed to the tie particles.   

How did you find this guy ?

[DovidFraiman]

okay but doesnt that at least narrow it down to 501 people


i personally think it's possible he would have exposed to the tie particles

he was in charge of purchasing

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he walso traffic manager for tektronix

marty andrade sent me the may 1970 tektronix employee directory photo album

[DovidFraiman]

yes but dice how many of those 500 people worked for tektronix