Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 1130696 times)

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #855 on: March 12, 2016, 12:06:18 AM »
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G wrote:"I have always said the full range of knowledge that 727s were being flown and jumped ... was even broader than you think. Enough to be common knowledge especially for anyone serving in the Vietnam theatre. Smith's ideology about "top level secret" is shear nonsense and a product of his mind/agenda only!"

This is anecdotal, but I spoke with one RVNA paratrooper (who also did sport jumping with the Saigon Sport Parachute Club), one US Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam combat experience and one USAF C-141 pilot who flew on and out of Vietnam frequently. Not one of them had heard about the SAT 727 jumps in Thailand while they served. This kinda surprised me. It's not a statistically valid sample or survey method but it makes me wonder who knew. I would have bet high odds that the RVNA paratrooper would have heard about it, and I would have lost.

If it was so widely known, why didn't the NWA crew or the ops folks at NWA HQ know that a 727 could be jumped? They had to call Boeing to get the answer. There is NOTHING in all my 727 manuals that even hints that the plane can be safely flown with the stairs deployed.

377

Maybe you have talked to all the wrong people so your sample is skewed? I talked to common ordinary people.  :)

That's actually not unusual. It's been my experience that the higher up you go at Rockwell engineering the dumber and less informed people get ... while arrogance goes up exponentially ... and that's a fact Jact! A few years ago trying to settle explosive disputes over a light switch I told these people what they need most was a "psychiatrist"! And not one of them laughed.

Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! ???

Soldiers in Nam knew what missions were being flown in or out of various bases - including in Thailand. If Joe Blo knew about it 10,000 Jo Blows knew about it ... this was like 'the number of missiles in a pod' ... you could stand there and see them, count them, et cetera ... you just could not legally photograph them, talk about them, etc. ... and so the story goes.       

Nuff said about that non-issue.

I have no doubt, and I am not surprised at all, that all of the 'right' people knew nothing about the stairs or jumps or cargo drops off a 727. That is frankly more predictable than snow in winter in Alaska! And you would have to file forms in triplicate and go through 50 committees and commissions just for asking! That is how the REAL WORLD works! The common ordinary world works by different rules in a different way ... and has common sense.

I have pointed out dozens of times that the 727s that Boeing modified so that the stairs could be lowered and closed routinely in flight probably had a different stairs control panel than the standard 727 airliner.  Cooper also told Tina (after the argument with Rataczak) that he knew that a 727 could take off with the aft stairs down.  Presumably, he meant that they were unlocked and lowered slightly but not dragging the runway.

It would only take one glimpse of a 727 doing just that for Cooper to know that it could be done.  But the flaps and airspeed settings would have to come from some knowledgeable source.  So Cooper did have some information about the 727 that would require a minimum amount of "research" for him to know.  And that information would have to come from someone familiar with the results of the Boeing tests and/or the way those modified 727s were operated in SEA or wherever they were used.

Many may have known it could be done, but Cooper, an opportunist, was the first to convert that knowledge into $200K.  Many more knew it could be done on November 25, 1971.

True.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #856 on: March 12, 2016, 12:13:39 AM »
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G wrote:"I have always said the full range of knowledge that 727s were being flown and jumped ... was even broader than you think. Enough to be common knowledge especially for anyone serving in the Vietnam theatre. Smith's ideology about "top level secret" is shear nonsense and a product of his mind/agenda only!"

This is anecdotal, but I spoke with one RVNA paratrooper (who also did sport jumping with the Saigon Sport Parachute Club), one US Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam combat experience and one USAF C-141 pilot who flew on and out of Vietnam frequently. Not one of them had heard about the SAT 727 jumps in Thailand while they served. This kinda surprised me. It's not a statistically valid sample or survey method but it makes me wonder who knew. I would have bet high odds that the RVNA paratrooper would have heard about it, and I would have lost.

If it was so widely known, why didn't the NWA crew or the ops folks at NWA HQ know that a 727 could be jumped? They had to call Boeing to get the answer. There is NOTHING in all my 727 manuals that even hints that the plane can be safely flown with the stairs deployed.

377

Maybe you have talked to all the wrong people so your sample is skewed? I talked to common ordinary people.  :)

That's actually not unusual. It's been my experience that the higher up you go at Rockwell engineering the dumber and less informed people get ... while arrogance goes up exponentially ... and that's a fact Jact! A few years ago trying to settle explosive disputes over a light switch I told these people what they need most was a "psychiatrist"! And not one of them laughed.

Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! ???

Soldiers in Nam knew what missions were being flown in or out of various bases - including in Thailand. If Joe Blo knew about it 10,000 Jo Blows knew about it ... this was like 'the number of missiles in a pod' ... you could stand there and see them, count them, et cetera ... you just could not legally photograph them, talk about them, etc. ... and so the story goes.       

Nuff said about that non-issue.

I have no doubt, and I am not surprised at all, that all of the 'right' people knew nothing about the stairs or jumps or cargo drops off a 727. That is frankly more predictable than snow in winter in Alaska! And you would have to file forms in triplicate and go through 50 committees and commissions just for asking! That is how the REAL WORLD works! The common ordinary world works by different rules in a different way ... and has common sense.

I have pointed out dozens of times that the 727s that Boeing modified so that the stairs could be lowered and closed routinely in flight probably had a different stairs control panel than the standard 727 airliner.  Cooper also told Tina (after the argument with Rataczak) that he knew that a 727 could take off with the aft stairs down.  Presumably, he meant that they were unlocked and lowered slightly but not dragging the runway.

It would only take one glimpse of a 727 doing just that for Cooper to know that it could be done.  But the flaps and airspeed settings would have to come from some knowledgeable source.  So Cooper did have some information about the 727 that would require a minimum amount of "research" for him to know.  And that information would have to come from someone familiar with the results of the Boeing tests and/or the way those modified 727s were operated in SEA or wherever they were used.

Many may have known it could be done, but Cooper, an opportunist, was the first to convert that knowledge into $200K.  Many more knew it could be done on November 25, 1971.

Others probably thought about it but backed off for one reason or another .... as far as is known.

If Cooper was a 'grunt' he may have been tipped off to the capabilities of the 727 by other grunts (who knew things) in Nam.

He would not be unique in having a grudge out of Vietnam - millions did.

But, I have to wonder about a guy that doesn't have any records or prints on file, in 1971! Something doesn't add up. Were prints and files of other hijackers as difficult to obtain as Cooper's? No one has ever addressed that issue.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 02:50:34 AM by georger »
 

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #857 on: March 12, 2016, 03:57:05 PM »
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G wrote:"I have always said the full range of knowledge that 727s were being flown and jumped ... was even broader than you think. Enough to be common knowledge especially for anyone serving in the Vietnam theatre. Smith's ideology about "top level secret" is shear nonsense and a product of his mind/agenda only!"

This is anecdotal, but I spoke with one RVNA paratrooper (who also did sport jumping with the Saigon Sport Parachute Club), one US Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam combat experience and one USAF C-141 pilot who flew on and out of Vietnam frequently. Not one of them had heard about the SAT 727 jumps in Thailand while they served. This kinda surprised me. It's not a statistically valid sample or survey method but it makes me wonder who knew. I would have bet high odds that the RVNA paratrooper would have heard about it, and I would have lost.

If it was so widely known, why didn't the NWA crew or the ops folks at NWA HQ know that a 727 could be jumped? They had to call Boeing to get the answer. There is NOTHING in all my 727 manuals that even hints that the plane can be safely flown with the stairs deployed.

377

Maybe you have talked to all the wrong people so your sample is skewed? I talked to common ordinary people.  :)

That's actually not unusual. It's been my experience that the higher up you go at Rockwell engineering the dumber and less informed people get ... while arrogance goes up exponentially ... and that's a fact Jact! A few years ago trying to settle explosive disputes over a light switch I told these people what they need most was a "psychiatrist"! And not one of them laughed.

Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! ???

Soldiers in Nam knew what missions were being flown in or out of various bases - including in Thailand. If Joe Blo knew about it 10,000 Jo Blows knew about it ... this was like 'the number of missiles in a pod' ... you could stand there and see them, count them, et cetera ... you just could not legally photograph them, talk about them, etc. ... and so the story goes.       

Nuff said about that non-issue.

I have no doubt, and I am not surprised at all, that all of the 'right' people knew nothing about the stairs or jumps or cargo drops off a 727. That is frankly more predictable than snow in winter in Alaska! And you would have to file forms in triplicate and go through 50 committees and commissions just for asking! That is how the REAL WORLD works! The common ordinary world works by different rules in a different way ... and has common sense.

I have pointed out dozens of times that the 727s that Boeing modified so that the stairs could be lowered and closed routinely in flight probably had a different stairs control panel than the standard 727 airliner.  Cooper also told Tina (after the argument with Rataczak) that he knew that a 727 could take off with the aft stairs down.  Presumably, he meant that they were unlocked and lowered slightly but not dragging the runway.

It would only take one glimpse of a 727 doing just that for Cooper to know that it could be done.  But the flaps and airspeed settings would have to come from some knowledgeable source.  So Cooper did have some information about the 727 that would require a minimum amount of "research" for him to know.  And that information would have to come from someone familiar with the results of the Boeing tests and/or the way those modified 727s were operated in SEA or wherever they were used.

Many may have known it could be done, but Cooper, an opportunist, was the first to convert that knowledge into $200K.  Many more knew it could be done on November 25, 1971.

Others probably thought about it but backed off for one reason or another .... as far as is known.

If Cooper was a 'grunt' he may have been tipped off to the capabilities of the 727 by other grunts (who knew things) in Nam.

He would not be unique in having a grudge out of Vietnam - millions did.

But, I have to wonder about a guy that doesn't have any records or prints on file, in 1971! Something doesn't add up. Were prints and files of other hijackers as difficult to obtain as Cooper's? No one has ever addressed that issue.

Retrieved From:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Accessed:  March 12, 2016

The Canadian Forces were involved in the 1950–1953 Korean War conflict and its aftermath. Canada participated on the side of the United Nations in the Korean War, with 26,000 Canadians participating in the Korean War, and Canada sending eight destroyers.[1] Canadian aircraft provided transport, supply and logistics. 516 Canadians died in the conflict, 312 of the deaths were from combat.

After the war, Canadian troops remained for three years as military observers.

*****************************************

An event in time around the time Cooper would have been at the age of High School graduation. Pure speculation, but has some interesting possibilities to explore.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #858 on: March 12, 2016, 04:38:51 PM »
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G wrote:"I have always said the full range of knowledge that 727s were being flown and jumped ... was even broader than you think. Enough to be common knowledge especially for anyone serving in the Vietnam theatre. Smith's ideology about "top level secret" is shear nonsense and a product of his mind/agenda only!"

This is anecdotal, but I spoke with one RVNA paratrooper (who also did sport jumping with the Saigon Sport Parachute Club), one US Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam combat experience and one USAF C-141 pilot who flew on and out of Vietnam frequently. Not one of them had heard about the SAT 727 jumps in Thailand while they served. This kinda surprised me. It's not a statistically valid sample or survey method but it makes me wonder who knew. I would have bet high odds that the RVNA paratrooper would have heard about it, and I would have lost.

If it was so widely known, why didn't the NWA crew or the ops folks at NWA HQ know that a 727 could be jumped? They had to call Boeing to get the answer. There is NOTHING in all my 727 manuals that even hints that the plane can be safely flown with the stairs deployed.

377

Maybe you have talked to all the wrong people so your sample is skewed? I talked to common ordinary people.  :)

That's actually not unusual. It's been my experience that the higher up you go at Rockwell engineering the dumber and less informed people get ... while arrogance goes up exponentially ... and that's a fact Jact! A few years ago trying to settle explosive disputes over a light switch I told these people what they need most was a "psychiatrist"! And not one of them laughed.

Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! ???

Soldiers in Nam knew what missions were being flown in or out of various bases - including in Thailand. If Joe Blo knew about it 10,000 Jo Blows knew about it ... this was like 'the number of missiles in a pod' ... you could stand there and see them, count them, et cetera ... you just could not legally photograph them, talk about them, etc. ... and so the story goes.       

Nuff said about that non-issue.

I have no doubt, and I am not surprised at all, that all of the 'right' people knew nothing about the stairs or jumps or cargo drops off a 727. That is frankly more predictable than snow in winter in Alaska! And you would have to file forms in triplicate and go through 50 committees and commissions just for asking! That is how the REAL WORLD works! The common ordinary world works by different rules in a different way ... and has common sense.

I have pointed out dozens of times that the 727s that Boeing modified so that the stairs could be lowered and closed routinely in flight probably had a different stairs control panel than the standard 727 airliner.  Cooper also told Tina (after the argument with Rataczak) that he knew that a 727 could take off with the aft stairs down.  Presumably, he meant that they were unlocked and lowered slightly but not dragging the runway.

It would only take one glimpse of a 727 doing just that for Cooper to know that it could be done.  But the flaps and airspeed settings would have to come from some knowledgeable source.  So Cooper did have some information about the 727 that would require a minimum amount of "research" for him to know.  And that information would have to come from someone familiar with the results of the Boeing tests and/or the way those modified 727s were operated in SEA or wherever they were used.

Many may have known it could be done, but Cooper, an opportunist, was the first to convert that knowledge into $200K.  Many more knew it could be done on November 25, 1971.

Others probably thought about it but backed off for one reason or another .... as far as is known.

If Cooper was a 'grunt' he may have been tipped off to the capabilities of the 727 by other grunts (who knew things) in Nam.

He would not be unique in having a grudge out of Vietnam - millions did.

But, I have to wonder about a guy that doesn't have any records or prints on file, in 1971! Something doesn't add up. Were prints and files of other hijackers as difficult to obtain as Cooper's? No one has ever addressed that issue.

Retrieved From:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Accessed:  March 12, 2016

The Canadian Forces were involved in the 1950–1953 Korean War conflict and its aftermath. Canada participated on the side of the United Nations in the Korean War, with 26,000 Canadians participating in the Korean War, and Canada sending eight destroyers.[1] Canadian aircraft provided transport, supply and logistics. 516 Canadians died in the conflict, 312 of the deaths were from combat.

After the war, Canadian troops remained for three years as military observers.

*****************************************

An event in time around the time Cooper would have been at the age of High School graduation. Pure speculation, but has some interesting possibilities to explore.

On December 26, 1971, a New Yorker with Canadian connections named Patrick Critton boarded a Toronto-bound DC-9 in Thunder Bay, which he then hijacked to Havana. Nearly 30 years later, Critton was still at large.

Critton's prints failed to turn up in any venue tried. Critton's name was run through the Canadian Police Information Computer, or CPIC, and came up dry. The American equivalent, known as NCIC was tried. Nothing. A driver's licence check in every province and state produced nothing. Supposed military records produced nothing.

Finally, in May 2001, Critton's name was typed into the internet search engine Google and a single entry appeared but this lead to employment records at several locations and eventually Critton's apprehension and arrest. Critton's case was settled through the legal system.

Critton's name was known all along. Eventually an employment application for Critton with a full set of finger prints (on a card) was located. Critton said he had filled out this application and several others and submitted to being finger printed several times in the intervening years and he explained 'I knew it would take years or never for anyone to make the connections'.

Critton is African-American. Photos etc are here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Bureaucracy plays a large role in settling these cases -


 :)   
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 05:21:03 PM by georger »
 

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #859 on: March 12, 2016, 07:32:32 PM »
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G wrote:"I have always said the full range of knowledge that 727s were being flown and jumped ... was even broader than you think. Enough to be common knowledge especially for anyone serving in the Vietnam theatre. Smith's ideology about "top level secret" is shear nonsense and a product of his mind/agenda only!"

This is anecdotal, but I spoke with one RVNA paratrooper (who also did sport jumping with the Saigon Sport Parachute Club), one US Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam combat experience and one USAF C-141 pilot who flew on and out of Vietnam frequently. Not one of them had heard about the SAT 727 jumps in Thailand while they served. This kinda surprised me. It's not a statistically valid sample or survey method but it makes me wonder who knew. I would have bet high odds that the RVNA paratrooper would have heard about it, and I would have lost.

If it was so widely known, why didn't the NWA crew or the ops folks at NWA HQ know that a 727 could be jumped? They had to call Boeing to get the answer. There is NOTHING in all my 727 manuals that even hints that the plane can be safely flown with the stairs deployed.

377

Maybe you have talked to all the wrong people so your sample is skewed? I talked to common ordinary people.  :)

That's actually not unusual. It's been my experience that the higher up you go at Rockwell engineering the dumber and less informed people get ... while arrogance goes up exponentially ... and that's a fact Jact! A few years ago trying to settle explosive disputes over a light switch I told these people what they need most was a "psychiatrist"! And not one of them laughed.

Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! ???

Soldiers in Nam knew what missions were being flown in or out of various bases - including in Thailand. If Joe Blo knew about it 10,000 Jo Blows knew about it ... this was like 'the number of missiles in a pod' ... you could stand there and see them, count them, et cetera ... you just could not legally photograph them, talk about them, etc. ... and so the story goes.       

Nuff said about that non-issue.

I have no doubt, and I am not surprised at all, that all of the 'right' people knew nothing about the stairs or jumps or cargo drops off a 727. That is frankly more predictable than snow in winter in Alaska! And you would have to file forms in triplicate and go through 50 committees and commissions just for asking! That is how the REAL WORLD works! The common ordinary world works by different rules in a different way ... and has common sense.

I have pointed out dozens of times that the 727s that Boeing modified so that the stairs could be lowered and closed routinely in flight probably had a different stairs control panel than the standard 727 airliner.  Cooper also told Tina (after the argument with Rataczak) that he knew that a 727 could take off with the aft stairs down.  Presumably, he meant that they were unlocked and lowered slightly but not dragging the runway.

It would only take one glimpse of a 727 doing just that for Cooper to know that it could be done.  But the flaps and airspeed settings would have to come from some knowledgeable source.  So Cooper did have some information about the 727 that would require a minimum amount of "research" for him to know.  And that information would have to come from someone familiar with the results of the Boeing tests and/or the way those modified 727s were operated in SEA or wherever they were used.

Many may have known it could be done, but Cooper, an opportunist, was the first to convert that knowledge into $200K.  Many more knew it could be done on November 25, 1971.

Others probably thought about it but backed off for one reason or another .... as far as is known.

If Cooper was a 'grunt' he may have been tipped off to the capabilities of the 727 by other grunts (who knew things) in Nam.

He would not be unique in having a grudge out of Vietnam - millions did.

But, I have to wonder about a guy that doesn't have any records or prints on file, in 1971! Something doesn't add up. Were prints and files of other hijackers as difficult to obtain as Cooper's? No one has ever addressed that issue.

Retrieved From:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Accessed:  March 12, 2016

The Canadian Forces were involved in the 1950–1953 Korean War conflict and its aftermath. Canada participated on the side of the United Nations in the Korean War, with 26,000 Canadians participating in the Korean War, and Canada sending eight destroyers.[1] Canadian aircraft provided transport, supply and logistics. 516 Canadians died in the conflict, 312 of the deaths were from combat.

After the war, Canadian troops remained for three years as military observers.

*****************************************

An event in time around the time Cooper would have been at the age of High School graduation. Pure speculation, but has some interesting possibilities to explore.

On December 26, 1971, a New Yorker with Canadian connections named Patrick Critton boarded a Toronto-bound DC-9 in Thunder Bay, which he then hijacked to Havana. Nearly 30 years later, Critton was still at large.

Critton's prints failed to turn up in any venue tried. Critton's name was run through the Canadian Police Information Computer, or CPIC, and came up dry. The American equivalent, known as NCIC was tried. Nothing. A driver's licence check in every province and state produced nothing. Supposed military records produced nothing.

Finally, in May 2001, Critton's name was typed into the internet search engine Google and a single entry appeared but this lead to employment records at several locations and eventually Critton's apprehension and arrest. Critton's case was settled through the legal system.

Critton's name was known all along. Eventually an employment application for Critton with a full set of finger prints (on a card) was located. Critton said he had filled out this application and several others and submitted to being finger printed several times in the intervening years and he explained 'I knew it would take years or never for anyone to make the connections'.

Critton is African-American. Photos etc are here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Bureaucracy plays a large role in settling these cases -


 :)   

The system that beats the system.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #860 on: March 12, 2016, 11:58:31 PM »
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G wrote:"I have always said the full range of knowledge that 727s were being flown and jumped ... was even broader than you think. Enough to be common knowledge especially for anyone serving in the Vietnam theatre. Smith's ideology about "top level secret" is shear nonsense and a product of his mind/agenda only!"

This is anecdotal, but I spoke with one RVNA paratrooper (who also did sport jumping with the Saigon Sport Parachute Club), one US Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam combat experience and one USAF C-141 pilot who flew on and out of Vietnam frequently. Not one of them had heard about the SAT 727 jumps in Thailand while they served. This kinda surprised me. It's not a statistically valid sample or survey method but it makes me wonder who knew. I would have bet high odds that the RVNA paratrooper would have heard about it, and I would have lost.

If it was so widely known, why didn't the NWA crew or the ops folks at NWA HQ know that a 727 could be jumped? They had to call Boeing to get the answer. There is NOTHING in all my 727 manuals that even hints that the plane can be safely flown with the stairs deployed.

377

Maybe you have talked to all the wrong people so your sample is skewed? I talked to common ordinary people.  :)

That's actually not unusual. It's been my experience that the higher up you go at Rockwell engineering the dumber and less informed people get ... while arrogance goes up exponentially ... and that's a fact Jact! A few years ago trying to settle explosive disputes over a light switch I told these people what they need most was a "psychiatrist"! And not one of them laughed.

Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! ???

Soldiers in Nam knew what missions were being flown in or out of various bases - including in Thailand. If Joe Blo knew about it 10,000 Jo Blows knew about it ... this was like 'the number of missiles in a pod' ... you could stand there and see them, count them, et cetera ... you just could not legally photograph them, talk about them, etc. ... and so the story goes.       

Nuff said about that non-issue.

I have no doubt, and I am not surprised at all, that all of the 'right' people knew nothing about the stairs or jumps or cargo drops off a 727. That is frankly more predictable than snow in winter in Alaska! And you would have to file forms in triplicate and go through 50 committees and commissions just for asking! That is how the REAL WORLD works! The common ordinary world works by different rules in a different way ... and has common sense.

I have pointed out dozens of times that the 727s that Boeing modified so that the stairs could be lowered and closed routinely in flight probably had a different stairs control panel than the standard 727 airliner.  Cooper also told Tina (after the argument with Rataczak) that he knew that a 727 could take off with the aft stairs down.  Presumably, he meant that they were unlocked and lowered slightly but not dragging the runway.

It would only take one glimpse of a 727 doing just that for Cooper to know that it could be done.  But the flaps and airspeed settings would have to come from some knowledgeable source.  So Cooper did have some information about the 727 that would require a minimum amount of "research" for him to know.  And that information would have to come from someone familiar with the results of the Boeing tests and/or the way those modified 727s were operated in SEA or wherever they were used.

Many may have known it could be done, but Cooper, an opportunist, was the first to convert that knowledge into $200K.  Many more knew it could be done on November 25, 1971.

Others probably thought about it but backed off for one reason or another .... as far as is known.

If Cooper was a 'grunt' he may have been tipped off to the capabilities of the 727 by other grunts (who knew things) in Nam.

He would not be unique in having a grudge out of Vietnam - millions did.

But, I have to wonder about a guy that doesn't have any records or prints on file, in 1971! Something doesn't add up. Were prints and files of other hijackers as difficult to obtain as Cooper's? No one has ever addressed that issue.

Retrieved From:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Accessed:  March 12, 2016

The Canadian Forces were involved in the 1950–1953 Korean War conflict and its aftermath. Canada participated on the side of the United Nations in the Korean War, with 26,000 Canadians participating in the Korean War, and Canada sending eight destroyers.[1] Canadian aircraft provided transport, supply and logistics. 516 Canadians died in the conflict, 312 of the deaths were from combat.

After the war, Canadian troops remained for three years as military observers.

*****************************************

An event in time around the time Cooper would have been at the age of High School graduation. Pure speculation, but has some interesting possibilities to explore.

On December 26, 1971, a New Yorker with Canadian connections named Patrick Critton boarded a Toronto-bound DC-9 in Thunder Bay, which he then hijacked to Havana. Nearly 30 years later, Critton was still at large.

Critton's prints failed to turn up in any venue tried. Critton's name was run through the Canadian Police Information Computer, or CPIC, and came up dry. The American equivalent, known as NCIC was tried. Nothing. A driver's licence check in every province and state produced nothing. Supposed military records produced nothing.

Finally, in May 2001, Critton's name was typed into the internet search engine Google and a single entry appeared but this lead to employment records at several locations and eventually Critton's apprehension and arrest. Critton's case was settled through the legal system.

Critton's name was known all along. Eventually an employment application for Critton with a full set of finger prints (on a card) was located. Critton said he had filled out this application and several others and submitted to being finger printed several times in the intervening years and he explained 'I knew it would take years or never for anyone to make the connections'.

Critton is African-American. Photos etc are here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Bureaucracy plays a large role in settling these cases -


 :)   

The system that beats the system.

+1  :)  This one example helps clarify several issues: that Cooper was the one-and-only person who 'got away' in a hijacking in 1971, and that there was some fully functioning 'system' which law enforcement could just access to glean basic information about suspects to go and apprehend somebody and arrest them forthwith. No system of that kind existed in 1971-72, and wouldn't exist for years to come, not even for the FBI in spite of the fact there were paper trails and repositories of records in all kinds of places - just accessing those systems was a major pain in the ass and took tons of time and manpower and no small amount of luck! It wouldn't matter how good (or bad) a detective was or how many detectives; the results could be negative even in the best of cases.

One essential problem was paper, storage, and indexing to be able to do manual searches in the decades leading up to the computer age.

And I have only touched the tip of the iceberg on this subject.  :o 

[edit] It is worth noting that even though LE knew who the hijacker was, at no time during the search for Critton was LE able to get Critton's finger prints out of various systems to compare to prints on a ginger ale bottle Critton had left on the plane. Only during the late stage of the investigation did this become possible due to new computerized print systems set up by the FBI coordinated with others. See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   
   
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:37:38 AM by georger »
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #861 on: March 13, 2016, 03:03:27 PM »
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G wrote:"I have always said the full range of knowledge that 727s were being flown and jumped ... was even broader than you think. Enough to be common knowledge especially for anyone serving in the Vietnam theatre. Smith's ideology about "top level secret" is shear nonsense and a product of his mind/agenda only!"

This is anecdotal, but I spoke with one RVNA paratrooper (who also did sport jumping with the Saigon Sport Parachute Club), one US Army helicopter pilot with extensive Vietnam combat experience and one USAF C-141 pilot who flew on and out of Vietnam frequently. Not one of them had heard about the SAT 727 jumps in Thailand while they served. This kinda surprised me. It's not a statistically valid sample or survey method but it makes me wonder who knew. I would have bet high odds that the RVNA paratrooper would have heard about it, and I would have lost.

If it was so widely known, why didn't the NWA crew or the ops folks at NWA HQ know that a 727 could be jumped? They had to call Boeing to get the answer. There is NOTHING in all my 727 manuals that even hints that the plane can be safely flown with the stairs deployed.

377

Maybe you have talked to all the wrong people so your sample is skewed? I talked to common ordinary people.  :)

That's actually not unusual. It's been my experience that the higher up you go at Rockwell engineering the dumber and less informed people get ... while arrogance goes up exponentially ... and that's a fact Jact! A few years ago trying to settle explosive disputes over a light switch I told these people what they need most was a "psychiatrist"! And not one of them laughed.

Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! ???

Soldiers in Nam knew what missions were being flown in or out of various bases - including in Thailand. If Joe Blo knew about it 10,000 Jo Blows knew about it ... this was like 'the number of missiles in a pod' ... you could stand there and see them, count them, et cetera ... you just could not legally photograph them, talk about them, etc. ... and so the story goes.       

Nuff said about that non-issue.

I have no doubt, and I am not surprised at all, that all of the 'right' people knew nothing about the stairs or jumps or cargo drops off a 727. That is frankly more predictable than snow in winter in Alaska! And you would have to file forms in triplicate and go through 50 committees and commissions just for asking! That is how the REAL WORLD works! The common ordinary world works by different rules in a different way ... and has common sense.

I have pointed out dozens of times that the 727s that Boeing modified so that the stairs could be lowered and closed routinely in flight probably had a different stairs control panel than the standard 727 airliner.  Cooper also told Tina (after the argument with Rataczak) that he knew that a 727 could take off with the aft stairs down.  Presumably, he meant that they were unlocked and lowered slightly but not dragging the runway.

It would only take one glimpse of a 727 doing just that for Cooper to know that it could be done.  But the flaps and airspeed settings would have to come from some knowledgeable source.  So Cooper did have some information about the 727 that would require a minimum amount of "research" for him to know.  And that information would have to come from someone familiar with the results of the Boeing tests and/or the way those modified 727s were operated in SEA or wherever they were used.

Many may have known it could be done, but Cooper, an opportunist, was the first to convert that knowledge into $200K.  Many more knew it could be done on November 25, 1971.

Others probably thought about it but backed off for one reason or another .... as far as is known.

If Cooper was a 'grunt' he may have been tipped off to the capabilities of the 727 by other grunts (who knew things) in Nam.

He would not be unique in having a grudge out of Vietnam - millions did.

But, I have to wonder about a guy that doesn't have any records or prints on file, in 1971! Something doesn't add up. Were prints and files of other hijackers as difficult to obtain as Cooper's? No one has ever addressed that issue.

Retrieved From:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Accessed:  March 12, 2016

The Canadian Forces were involved in the 1950–1953 Korean War conflict and its aftermath. Canada participated on the side of the United Nations in the Korean War, with 26,000 Canadians participating in the Korean War, and Canada sending eight destroyers.[1] Canadian aircraft provided transport, supply and logistics. 516 Canadians died in the conflict, 312 of the deaths were from combat.

After the war, Canadian troops remained for three years as military observers.

*****************************************

An event in time around the time Cooper would have been at the age of High School graduation. Pure speculation, but has some interesting possibilities to explore.

On December 26, 1971, a New Yorker with Canadian connections named Patrick Critton boarded a Toronto-bound DC-9 in Thunder Bay, which he then hijacked to Havana. Nearly 30 years later, Critton was still at large.

Critton's prints failed to turn up in any venue tried. Critton's name was run through the Canadian Police Information Computer, or CPIC, and came up dry. The American equivalent, known as NCIC was tried. Nothing. A driver's licence check in every province and state produced nothing. Supposed military records produced nothing.

Finally, in May 2001, Critton's name was typed into the internet search engine Google and a single entry appeared but this lead to employment records at several locations and eventually Critton's apprehension and arrest. Critton's case was settled through the legal system.

Critton's name was known all along. Eventually an employment application for Critton with a full set of finger prints (on a card) was located. Critton said he had filled out this application and several others and submitted to being finger printed several times in the intervening years and he explained 'I knew it would take years or never for anyone to make the connections'.

Critton is African-American. Photos etc are here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Bureaucracy plays a large role in settling these cases -


 :)   

The system that beats the system.

+1  :)  This one example helps clarify several issues: that Cooper was the one-and-only person who 'got away' in a hijacking in 1971, and that there was some fully functioning 'system' which law enforcement could just access to glean basic information about suspects to go and apprehend somebody and arrest them forthwith. No system of that kind existed in 1971-72, and wouldn't exist for years to come, not even for the FBI in spite of the fact there were paper trails and repositories of records in all kinds of places - just accessing those systems was a major pain in the ass and took tons of time and manpower and no small amount of luck! It wouldn't matter how good (or bad) a detective was or how many detectives; the results could be negative even in the best of cases.

One essential problem was paper, storage, and indexing to be able to do manual searches in the decades leading up to the computer age.

And I have only touched the tip of the iceberg on this subject.  :o 

[edit] It is worth noting that even though LE knew who the hijacker was, at no time during the search for Critton was LE able to get Critton's finger prints out of various systems to compare to prints on a ginger ale bottle Critton had left on the plane. Only during the late stage of the investigation did this become possible due to new computerized print systems set up by the FBI coordinated with others. See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   
 

Granted - capabilities are exponentially far superior than in the early 70’s, however the fly in the ointment is the human operators of the system are not infallible.  Garbage in – garbage out, jurisdictional boundaries, allocation of resources, ineptitude, corruption, etc.....  The main weakness may be the cloak of impunity granted to some in the system or “friends” of those in the system.  A polite considerate calm smooth talker with special mannerisms like Cooper as he is described by witnesses may have all the prerequisites to wiggle out of a situation that may get himself fingerprinted or DNA sample taken.

If and when Coopers true identity is released publically my top theory is he will be in the system (or was in) and a “friend” of the system looking for him, hiding in plain sight right under the noses of those charged with the responsibility of finding him.  That’s where to look for him, in the dark cracks of a broken system, preying on weaknesses in human character. 

The system that beats the system.
 

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #862 on: March 13, 2016, 03:47:59 PM »
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. . . . . . . . . .

+1  :)  This one example helps clarify several issues: that Cooper was the one-and-only person who 'got away' in a hijacking in 1971, and that there was some fully functioning 'system' which law enforcement could just access to glean basic information about suspects to go and apprehend somebody and arrest them forthwith. No system of that kind existed in 1971-72, and wouldn't exist for years to come, not even for the FBI in spite of the fact there were paper trails and repositories of records in all kinds of places - just accessing those systems was a major pain in the ass and took tons of time and manpower and no small amount of luck! It wouldn't matter how good (or bad) a detective was or how many detectives; the results could be negative even in the best of cases.

One essential problem was paper, storage, and indexing to be able to do manual searches in the decades leading up to the computer age.

And I have only touched the tip of the iceberg on this subject.  :o 

[edit] It is worth noting that even though LE knew who the hijacker was, at no time during the search for Critton was LE able to get Critton's finger prints out of various systems to compare to prints on a ginger ale bottle Critton had left on the plane. Only during the late stage of the investigation did this become possible due to new computerized print systems set up by the FBI coordinated with others. See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   
 

Granted - capabilities are exponentially far superior than in the early 70’s, however the fly in the ointment is the human operators of the system are not infallible.  Garbage in – garbage out, jurisdictional boundaries, allocation of resources, ineptitude, corruption, etc.....  The main weakness may be the cloak of impunity granted to some in the system or “friends” of those in the system.  A polite considerate calm smooth talker with special mannerisms like Cooper as he is described by witnesses may have all the prerequisites to wiggle out of a situation that may get himself fingerprinted or DNA sample taken.

If and when Coopers true identity is released publically my top theory is he will be in the system (or was in) and a “friend” of the system looking for him, hiding in plain sight right under the noses of those charged with the responsibility of finding him.  That’s where to look for him, in the dark cracks of a broken system, preying on weaknesses in human character. 

The system that beats the system.

There is clear evidence that efforts have been made by government types to cover up some of the evidence in the Cooper case.  This includes deletions from both the FBI and FAA records.

Further, people who have made a detailed study of the ARINC teletypewriter records have told me that some of those records are also missing.

Consequently, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from this is that some government people were not as interested in solving the Cooper matter as you might think.

Robert99
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 03:49:26 PM by Robert99 »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #863 on: March 13, 2016, 04:36:59 PM »
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. . . . . . . . . .

+1  :)  This one example helps clarify several issues: that Cooper was the one-and-only person who 'got away' in a hijacking in 1971, and that there was some fully functioning 'system' which law enforcement could just access to glean basic information about suspects to go and apprehend somebody and arrest them forthwith. No system of that kind existed in 1971-72, and wouldn't exist for years to come, not even for the FBI in spite of the fact there were paper trails and repositories of records in all kinds of places - just accessing those systems was a major pain in the ass and took tons of time and manpower and no small amount of luck! It wouldn't matter how good (or bad) a detective was or how many detectives; the results could be negative even in the best of cases.

One essential problem was paper, storage, and indexing to be able to do manual searches in the decades leading up to the computer age.

And I have only touched the tip of the iceberg on this subject.  :o 

[edit] It is worth noting that even though LE knew who the hijacker was, at no time during the search for Critton was LE able to get Critton's finger prints out of various systems to compare to prints on a ginger ale bottle Critton had left on the plane. Only during the late stage of the investigation did this become possible due to new computerized print systems set up by the FBI coordinated with others. See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   
 

Granted - capabilities are exponentially far superior than in the early 70’s, however the fly in the ointment is the human operators of the system are not infallible.  Garbage in – garbage out, jurisdictional boundaries, allocation of resources, ineptitude, corruption, etc.....  The main weakness may be the cloak of impunity granted to some in the system or “friends” of those in the system.  A polite considerate calm smooth talker with special mannerisms like Cooper as he is described by witnesses may have all the prerequisites to wiggle out of a situation that may get himself fingerprinted or DNA sample taken.

If and when Coopers true identity is released publically my top theory is he will be in the system (or was in) and a “friend” of the system looking for him, hiding in plain sight right under the noses of those charged with the responsibility of finding him.  That’s where to look for him, in the dark cracks of a broken system, preying on weaknesses in human character. 

The system that beats the system.

There is clear evidence that efforts have been made by government types to cover up some of the evidence in the Cooper case.  This includes deletions from both the FBI and FAA records.

Further, people who have made a detailed study of the ARINC teletypewriter records have told me that some of those records are also missing.

Consequently, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from this is that some government people were not as interested in solving the Cooper matter as you might think.

Robert99

Everything you and Prospector says may be true, but, the one thing that got Critton out of the system, as it were, was his leaving the system, ie. his successful hijack to Cuba where the Cuban's put him in jail! Then released him to go to Africa and other places prior to finally coming back to North America where in time the past caught up with him precisely because, someone(s) picked up the chase again ... and there he was in plain sight, more-or-less. Through all of that nobody had been able to get a set of prints on the guy to match to the pop bottle Critton left on the plane. So there were systems conflicting and unknowingly cooperating to Critton's advantage for a while. Then 'the system' picked him back up. It's never just one system, but many systems and people and facts in systems. The Cubans gave Critton sanctuary in their jail then Critton himself was smart enough to leave to Africa, then he erred thinking our system had forgotten him.

This is why I go back to Flo's evaluation that Cooper was of "Latin descent". Because if that is true, this could take Cooper 'out of the system'. Or, it could move him into another system the net effect of which is to raise this guy into the murky territory of 'competition between agencies' and an international personality where rules are different. Unlike Critton, Cooper could have stayed out of the system forever and vanished without a trace, under that scenario alone.

Or he could have been killed in the Shillapoo with the only trace left, several bundles of his money eventually flowing to Tina Bar a short distance away!

If you recall, Ckret jumped on the idea of a Cooper Comic and he went to the trouble of finding and interviewing Irwin Weinberg in Belgium, on the premise of a possible international connection. A person with racial traits or possibly Latin or Greek origin who spent time in Canada ... just as Critton did. But who perhaps made it out of the country or lost his soul somewhere near enough the Columbia to have some of his money wind up found on Tina Bar.

Lots of options and possibilities.       

I think there is a strong possibility that Cooper left 'the system' one way or another. And he was not a person who spent time philosophizing about 'the system that beats the system', but he was a person who actually did it without any talk or mouthy pronouncements about some 'abstract cause'.

If he survived the jump and was trying to walk his way back to Portland aloof without raising notice, that may have been a fatal mistake. Every law enforcement person or agent Ive ever talked to who knew the situation below Vancouver near the Columbia, thinks there is a very high possibility that Cooper could have been encountered and stopped and wound up in the Columbia with his money scattered, some to wind up on Tina Bar by one means or another. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 05:04:20 PM by georger »
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #864 on: March 13, 2016, 06:20:18 PM »
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. . . . . . . . . .

+1  :)  This one example helps clarify several issues: that Cooper was the one-and-only person who 'got away' in a hijacking in 1971, and that there was some fully functioning 'system' which law enforcement could just access to glean basic information about suspects to go and apprehend somebody and arrest them forthwith. No system of that kind existed in 1971-72, and wouldn't exist for years to come, not even for the FBI in spite of the fact there were paper trails and repositories of records in all kinds of places - just accessing those systems was a major pain in the ass and took tons of time and manpower and no small amount of luck! It wouldn't matter how good (or bad) a detective was or how many detectives; the results could be negative even in the best of cases.

One essential problem was paper, storage, and indexing to be able to do manual searches in the decades leading up to the computer age.

And I have only touched the tip of the iceberg on this subject.  :o 

[edit] It is worth noting that even though LE knew who the hijacker was, at no time during the search for Critton was LE able to get Critton's finger prints out of various systems to compare to prints on a ginger ale bottle Critton had left on the plane. Only during the late stage of the investigation did this become possible due to new computerized print systems set up by the FBI coordinated with others. See: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   
 

Granted - capabilities are exponentially far superior than in the early 70’s, however the fly in the ointment is the human operators of the system are not infallible.  Garbage in – garbage out, jurisdictional boundaries, allocation of resources, ineptitude, corruption, etc.....  The main weakness may be the cloak of impunity granted to some in the system or “friends” of those in the system.  A polite considerate calm smooth talker with special mannerisms like Cooper as he is described by witnesses may have all the prerequisites to wiggle out of a situation that may get himself fingerprinted or DNA sample taken.

If and when Coopers true identity is released publically my top theory is he will be in the system (or was in) and a “friend” of the system looking for him, hiding in plain sight right under the noses of those charged with the responsibility of finding him.  That’s where to look for him, in the dark cracks of a broken system, preying on weaknesses in human character. 

The system that beats the system.

There is clear evidence that efforts have been made by government types to cover up some of the evidence in the Cooper case.  This includes deletions from both the FBI and FAA records.

Further, people who have made a detailed study of the ARINC teletypewriter records have told me that some of those records are also missing.

Consequently, the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from this is that some government people were not as interested in solving the Cooper matter as you might think.

Robert99

Everything you and Prospector says may be true, but, the one thing that got Critton out of the system, as it were, was his leaving the system, ie. his successful hijack to Cuba where the Cuban's put him in jail! Then released him to go to Africa and other places prior to finally coming back to North America where in time the past caught up with him precisely because, someone(s) picked up the chase again ... and there he was in plain sight, more-or-less. Through all of that nobody had been able to get a set of prints on the guy to match to the pop bottle Critton left on the plane. So there were systems conflicting and unknowingly cooperating to Critton's advantage for a while. Then 'the system' picked him back up. It's never just one system, but many systems and people and facts in systems. The Cubans gave Critton sanctuary in their jail then Critton himself was smart enough to leave to Africa, then he erred thinking our system had forgotten him.

This is why I go back to Flo's evaluation that Cooper was of "Latin descent". Because if that is true, this could take Cooper 'out of the system'. Or, it could move him into another system the net effect of which is to raise this guy into the murky territory of 'competition between agencies' and an international personality where rules are different. Unlike Critton, Cooper could have stayed out of the system forever and vanished without a trace, under that scenario alone.

Or he could have been killed in the Shillapoo with the only trace left, several bundles of his money eventually flowing to Tina Bar a short distance away!

If you recall, Ckret jumped on the idea of a Cooper Comic and he went to the trouble of finding and interviewing Irwin Weinberg in Belgium, on the premise of a possible international connection. A person with racial traits or possibly Latin or Greek origin who spent time in Canada ... just as Critton did. But who perhaps made it out of the country or lost his soul somewhere near enough the Columbia to have some of his money wind up found on Tina Bar.

Lots of options and possibilities.       

I think there is a strong possibility that Cooper left 'the system' one way or another. And he was not a person who spent time philosophizing about 'the system that beats the system', but he was a person who actually did it without any talk or mouthy pronouncements about some 'abstract cause'.

If he survived the jump and was trying to walk his way back to Portland aloof without raising notice, that may have been a fatal mistake. Every law enforcement person or agent Ive ever talked to who knew the situation below Vancouver near the Columbia, thinks there is a very high possibility that Cooper could have been encountered and stopped and wound up in the Columbia with his money scattered, some to wind up on Tina Bar by one means or another.

Good time to insert this into the discussion as it ties-in somewhat with the international aspects, Apologies if this has been posted before.

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Points of interest:

‘Shrine’ to Dan Cooper at Canadian AFB.
Dan Cooper - ordinary guy with extraordinary skill set in aviation.
How Dan Cooper got his identity.
Dan Cooper - champion of ethical integrity and all that is good.
No mention of the evil Dan Cooper.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #865 on: March 13, 2016, 09:17:11 PM »
Interesting avoidance of R99's above post, drawing attention to intentional deceit in Norjak, ie: the sanitizing of flight transcripts.

Wassup wid dat, Cooper sleuths?
 

Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #866 on: March 14, 2016, 12:00:42 AM »
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Interesting avoidance of R99's above post, drawing attention to intentional deceit in Norjak, ie: the sanitizing of flight transcripts.

Wassup wid dat, Cooper sleuths?

Bruce, As I understand your first sentence above, you are saying that Georger and Prospector are avoiding what I wrote in my post.  I don't see any basis for your comment since the three of us are discussing how an individual (such as Cooper) can "leave the system", and maybe reenter it at some future time, without actually leaving clues behind that law enforcement people can pursue.  And law enforcement people may not be interested in pursuing those clues in the first place.

In the case of Cooper, it is a mystery to me that the Seattle ATC radio transcripts were so heavily redacted that you can't determine the airliner's actual flight path from those transcripts.  Compare the Seattle ATC transcripts with the Oakland ATC and Reno transcripts. 

The redactions were done relatively early in the investigation (probably the first year or two) and may have had the purpose of preventing other people from searching for Cooper.  Or maybe they solved  the whole case, know Cooper's name, and know what happened to him, but just don't want the information to become public knowledge.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 12:02:14 AM by Robert99 »
 

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #867 on: March 14, 2016, 12:50:39 AM »
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Interesting avoidance of R99's above post, drawing attention to intentional deceit in Norjak, ie: the sanitizing of flight transcripts.

Wassup wid dat, Cooper sleuths?

Not avoidance, duly noted – just falling further into the rabbit hole. Sometimes it takes a little time to process certain information and determine how it connects to the facts as understood.  It poses a menacing question.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #868 on: March 14, 2016, 02:21:17 AM »
Quote
The redactions were done relatively early in the investigation (probably the first year or two) and may have had the purpose of preventing other people from searching for Cooper.  Or maybe they solved  the whole case, know Cooper's name, and know what happened to him, but just don't want the information to become public knowledge.

Not sure the FBI appreciates the annual "Look at this case the FBI couldn't solve" news cycle right before they visit family on Thanksgiving. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the FBI had a short list of people they thought were Cooper, but never talk about because they don't have actionable evidence.

Larry Carr opening the case to the public and Agent Eng's "Best candidate ever" remark vis-a-vis LD Cooper contraindicate this hypothesis.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #869 on: March 14, 2016, 02:44:39 AM »
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Quote
The redactions were done relatively early in the investigation (probably the first year or two) and may have had the purpose of preventing other people from searching for Cooper.  Or maybe they solved  the whole case, know Cooper's name, and know what happened to him, but just don't want the information to become public knowledge.

Not sure the FBI appreciates the annual "Look at this case the FBI couldn't solve" news cycle right before they visit family on Thanksgiving. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the FBI had a short list of people they thought were Cooper, but never talk about because they don't have actionable evidence.

Larry Carr opening the case to the public and Agent Eng's "Best candidate ever" remark vis-a-vis LD Cooper contraindicate this hypothesis.

Or there is an even worse deeper conspiracy theory - the FBI knows who Cooper was but can't reveal it for reasons of national security and is now looking for a shill ... viola Ckret surfaces with a phony cover ... then LD! and the whole thing blows up due to incompetence and constipation of the pamajeon. ! Ain't that right, Smith! ? Huh? Huh? Whaddayatink? Huh?  More lobotomized maldum for the fornax.   ;) :)  In other words, it's all sexual!   ::)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 02:56:52 AM by georger »