Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 381190 times)

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2015, 04:25:44 PM »
Fly, I moved your comment here. I don't really want to start anymore threads at this time. we have enough topics to post any questions in. no biggie........

Shutter 
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2015, 11:33:35 PM »
I was looking into the tie bar, as we know, it was a very common design that was used in cheap costume jewellery up to low end. I found that Speidel made that design and rebranded for different department stores at the low end. Swank brand also sold it but slighly higher end. There were a few others.

It was usually sold as a kit with the cufflinks, often with a money clip, sometimes with pen kits or even with higher end gems.

What happened to the rest of Coopers kit??

Here is a matching kit with the original store tag on the box YDC $2.00..  YDC was York Discount Corporation, part of McCrorys five and dime empire, YDC was Eastern headquartered in York Pennsylvania. The design was so pervasive that it tells us little, but Coopers is very low end and widely available. Likely, there is a date code on this tag, but retailers had their own system.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2015, 11:40:26 PM »
It's hard to say whether he had the rest of the jewelry that came with the tie "clip". I'm not sure if this was sold as one piece during the time period. it's possible he never had the set, or it's still unknown if the tie was his, or purchased somewhere prior to the crime.

I spent a lot of time trying to track down leads on it. I concluded it was manufactured in New Jersey (I think) I made a video, don't know if you ever seen it?

 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #93 on: January 07, 2015, 12:49:14 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It's hard to say whether he had the rest of the jewelry that came with the tie "clip". I'm not sure if this was sold as one piece during the time period. it's possible he never had the set, or it's still unknown if the tie was his, or purchased somewhere prior to the crime.

I spent a lot of time trying to track down leads on it. I concluded it was manufactured in New Jersey (I think) I made a video, don't know if you ever seen it?


Good info, I found much of the same, Speidel made low end under different names for dept stores, Stacy tended to be a little higher end sometimes with a pen/pencil kit.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #94 on: January 07, 2015, 07:11:30 AM »
I made the video a while back. I've found about a dozen more companies selling the product. it basically came from one manufacture who sold/shipped it all over the country, and they put the product in there boxes. have you found any from
Canada?
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #95 on: January 07, 2015, 10:26:09 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I made the video a while back. I've found about a dozen more companies selling the product. it basically came from one manufacture who sold/shipped it all over the country, and they put the product in there boxes. have you found any from
Canada?

No manufacturing, but like the US, Canada had many department store chains that sold house brands. I haven't found the exact Cooper clip though.

Also, some fountain pen nibs were titanium, not sure what form, probably an alloy and those cheap sets usually didn't come with fountain pens.

Something like 85% of watches are bought as gifts, I thought about my tie clips and I never bought any of them, they (5) were all gifts from family or work. So, I wonder generally what the breakdown is for tie clips/sets, was Coopers a gift.

That design was produced for decades, how old do you think it is? It looks well worn,
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #96 on: January 07, 2015, 02:59:03 PM »
The same clip in the 50s had a different type of clip. Probably not older than the 60s.
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2015, 07:14:07 PM »
I have questions about the stairs,,,

How do they work, can they be partially lowered, is there any indicator to distinguish full vs partial.

Note these two images, they were shredded, not the stairs but the fabric side panels. The weight drop test stairs had a different shredding pattern. Could be the variability of the attachment/tightness or Cooper plane flew further. It is interesting that Coopers is ripped even on both sides a little over half way up, the test has one side perfect the other 90% gone..

Could Cooper have partially opened the stairs, say 50% causing the even tearing, then fully lowering them a bit later. That is what I would do, lower them partially to get bearings. Is that even possible..




« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 07:16:20 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2015, 07:20:16 PM »
They work by gravity. once the stairs are down, you have to lock them from the ground. when the light came on with the stairs they were only partially open until Cooper went down them.

 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2015, 07:23:54 PM »
Here they are partially open...


 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2015, 07:39:01 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Here they are partially open...




here it is,, 20 deg ,, so after Cooper left the stairs returned to 20 deg

"Once in the test area the plane was flown with flaps at 15 degrees, wheels down, approximately 150 KIAS. When the aft airstairs were released, they dropped 20 degrees (Photo here.). There was a slight change in cabin pressure indicated by gauges, but not felt by the flight crew.
Air Force Captain Wilson and M/Sgt Saiz individually walked down the airstairs (wearing parachutes) and stood at the bottom. Each reported that the stairs lowered to almost a level position, they were stable, no drag from the wind and they could stand fully upright.
When at the bottom of the stairs the cabin pressure gauge showed significant changes.
They then performed a test by dropping each of the two sleds and in both tests the sleds dropped directly down (dispelling a theory that Cooper would have been slammed up against the tail when he jumped). The moment the sleds cleared the stairs the flight crew felt a popping in their ears and the cabin pressure gauge reacted violently. It was discovered from chase plane photo's, video and reports from Wilson and Saiz that the pressure change was caused by the stairs being forced upward by the airstream after the weight was removed.
Flight Engineer Harold E. Anderson, who was present for the test and served on the flight crew of Flight 305 the night of the hijacking, stated that the pressure bump felt during the test was identical to what was experienced the night of the hijacking."
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2015, 07:49:18 PM »
The problem is they believe they got the jump wrong due to oscillation felt at 8:10/11. this was believed to be when Cooper was at the bottom of the stairs. then a pressure bump was felt (actual jump) according to Rataczak that occurred 5-10 minutes after the last contact with Cooper at 8:05.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2015, 11:56:37 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The problem is they believe they got the jump wrong due to oscillation felt at 8:10/11. this was believed to be when Cooper was at the bottom of the stairs. then a pressure bump was felt (actual jump) according to Rataczak that occurred 5-10 minutes after the last contact with Cooper at 8:05.

oscillations and bump, distinct events (phenomena).

delay in reporting 'bump' according to Anderson of up to five minutes, which explains Rczak's estimate 'that occurred 5-10 minutes after the last contact with Cooper at 8:05.' And, if Anderson is correct 8:05 was not the crew's last contact with Cooper. There was one additional contact of Cooper calling forward after 8:05, to ask the plane be slowed and stabilised' before the 'bump/jump'.

   
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 11:58:06 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9276
  • Thanked: 1011 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #103 on: January 16, 2015, 05:18:34 PM »
Robert99, here is what 377 is looking for. it's the Cooper Vane...

 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #104 on: January 16, 2015, 08:40:18 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Robert99, here is what 377 is looking for. it's the Cooper Vane...

Shutter, I don't know what it is in the picture, but it looks it is a rigid tab of some kind that cannot fold over as the Cooper vane allegedly does.

Also, the article from Wikipedia that 377 quotes, says the Cooper vane was on a ex-SAS DC-9-21 which means that it operated in Europe.

In the good old USA, I do not remember ever boarding an early model DC-9 through the aft stairs.  I have boarded early model MD-80s, and MAYBE late model DC-9-??s, through the aft stairs and never saw a Cooper vane (but I wasn't really looking for one either).

But for the most part, my DC-9/MD-80 flights involved large airports that had enclosed moveable ramps and didn't use either the front or aft stairs.