Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 619957 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2805 on: December 14, 2020, 10:51:57 PM »
What would be the reason to cover up such a trivial thing? Spreckel gave a statement of Tina going out of the plane, along with the crew?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2806 on: December 14, 2020, 11:02:05 PM »
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I agree with FJ that something is wrong. passengers also seen Tina go outside the aircraft. I don't believe any of them seen the chutes. will have to read the 302's again..Tina gives detailed information about getting the money. I believe the passengers were gone when the chutes arrived?

The money and parachutes arrived at the same time in a car containing Al Lee and the Seattle detective who picked up the money at the bank and transported it to SEATAC.  The 302s have Tina making several trips from the airplane to the car and carrying the money and all four parachutes to Cooper.  She would have had to make four round trips at least.

Finegold may have known the Seattle detective but the FBI didn't have any business at the aircraft since NWA told the FBI that they were going to cooperate with the Cooper.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2807 on: December 14, 2020, 11:03:05 PM »
Posted by FJ..he changed his story...

It was not long after the jet landed that Finegold became perhaps the first passenger to learn what was really going on. A man boarded the plane and came down the aisle. Finegold recognized him as an FBI agent he’d worked with before on federal cases.
“He said, ‘Larry, there’s a skyjacker on the plane, and we’re gonna get you off the plane in a couple minutes,’ then he walks [toward the rear of the cabin] because I think there was an exchange,” Finegold said. “This was happening behind me. [The FBI agent] was bringing on the money and the parachutes.”

 

Phone Interview with Larry Finegold Transcription: “Cooper” August 17, 2012

Finally, after a few minutes of what seemed like loading fuel on the plane, the front door opened, and they told people they could start exiting the plane – there was an announcement made – and the first person that I saw down as I, cause we were just de-planing out on the runway and going down just a set of stairs that they had rolled up, first person I saw that I recognized was an FBI agent who I knew because I was assisting the United States Attorney at the time, and I said to him, “John, what in the world’s going on?” and he said, “Larry, just keep going, there’s a skyjacker on the plane.” And that’s the first thing I knew about the skyjacking.

The phone interview makes the most sense..
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 11:04:13 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2808 on: December 15, 2020, 04:38:22 AM »
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Posted by FJ..he changed his story...

It was not long after the jet landed that Finegold became perhaps the first passenger to learn what was really going on. A man boarded the plane and came down the aisle. Finegold recognized him as an FBI agent he’d worked with before on federal cases.
“He said, ‘Larry, there’s a skyjacker on the plane, and we’re gonna get you off the plane in a couple minutes,’ then he walks [toward the rear of the cabin] because I think there was an exchange,” Finegold said. “This was happening behind me. [The FBI agent] was bringing on the money and the parachutes.”

 

Phone Interview with Larry Finegold Transcription: “Cooper” August 17, 2012

Finally, after a few minutes of what seemed like loading fuel on the plane, the front door opened, and they told people they could start exiting the plane – there was an announcement made – and the first person that I saw down as I, cause we were just de-planing out on the runway and going down just a set of stairs that they had rolled up, first person I saw that I recognized was an FBI agent who I knew because I was assisting the United States Attorney at the time, and I said to him, “John, what in the world’s going on?” and he said, “Larry, just keep going, there’s a skyjacker on the plane.” And that’s the first thing I knew about the skyjacking.

The phone interview makes the most sense..

The phone interview may make the most sense, but it's not what Larry Feingold told me, which was supported by several other passengers - that two men brought the money onboard and transferred it to Tina at the front of the passenger cabin. Then all the passengers deplaned.

The passenger who told me that he was informed of the skyjacking by an FBI agent at the bottom of the stairs was Bill Mitchell.

I'm not sure where FJ is getting his information from. It kinda sounds like me and what I've written about the passengers, such as at the MN.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 04:39:14 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2809 on: December 15, 2020, 04:56:50 AM »
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The money and parachutes arrived at the same time in a car containing Al Lee and the Seattle detective who picked up the money at the bank and transported it to SEATAC.  The 302s have Tina making several trips from the airplane to the car and carrying the money and all four parachutes to Cooper.  She would have had to make four round trips at least.

Finegold may have known the Seattle detective but the FBI didn't have any business at the aircraft since NWA told the FBI that they were going to cooperate with the Cooper.

Larry was quite specific: FBI agent; his name was John.

It also begs the question of how many people accompanied the money and chutes and rode in the NWO vehicle with Al Lee. Geoffrey Gray writes, and I've seen it corroborated in some 302 floating around, that an FAA official also was part of the group and boarded 305 to apprise Mr. Cooper that what he was doing "risked grave consequences," or words to that effect.

So, we have a few guys: Al Lee, Owen McKenna - the SPD homicide decretive - and the unnamed FAA fellow. FBI docs claim at least one of them boarded 305. Maybe only two did, and the "FAA" guy was really the FBI agent named John, and the Bureau is covering that up at the moment.

In terms of the discussion at the moment, it is hard to understand how a Seattle police officer got involved in an FBI action, namely, transporting their money. Maybe it was a mutual assistance kind of thing since all the feds were at the airport and no one was downtown to get the moolah. Regardless, it is harder to understand how Larry Finegold, a federal prosecutor, would know a Seattle homicide detective. McKenna's court appearances would be in Washington state courts, not the federal ones where Larry was working.

Unless Seattle is a small town and everyone knows everyone else.

Lastly, I had a very lengthy and interesting conversation with Larry about the FBI and the truthfulness of the official Norjak narrative. Larry is circumspect about what the FBI says happened. He has clearly been around the block a few times, but I did not find him cynical or jaded. Actually, I found him to be a very calm, wise, cognizant individual.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2810 on: December 15, 2020, 10:32:56 AM »
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The money and parachutes arrived at the same time in a car containing Al Lee and the Seattle detective who picked up the money at the bank and transported it to SEATAC.  The 302s have Tina making several trips from the airplane to the car and carrying the money and all four parachutes to Cooper.  She would have had to make four round trips at least.

Finegold may have known the Seattle detective but the FBI didn't have any business at the aircraft since NWA told the FBI that they were going to cooperate with the Cooper.

Larry was quite specific: FBI agent; his name was John.

It also begs the question of how many people accompanied the money and chutes and rode in the NWO vehicle with Al Lee. Geoffrey Gray writes, and I've seen it corroborated in some 302 floating around, that an FAA official also was part of the group and boarded 305 to apprise Mr. Cooper that what he was doing "risked grave consequences," or words to that effect.

So, we have a few guys: Al Lee, Owen McKenna - the SPD homicide decretive - and the unnamed FAA fellow. FBI docs claim at least one of them boarded 305. Maybe only two did, and the "FAA" guy was really the FBI agent named John, and the Bureau is covering that up at the moment.

In terms of the discussion at the moment, it is hard to understand how a Seattle police officer got involved in an FBI action, namely, transporting their money. Maybe it was a mutual assistance kind of thing since all the feds were at the airport and no one was downtown to get the moolah. Regardless, it is harder to understand how Larry Finegold, a federal prosecutor, would know a Seattle homicide detective. McKenna's court appearances would be in Washington state courts, not the federal ones where Larry was working.

Unless Seattle is a small town and everyone knows everyone else.

Lastly, I had a very lengthy and interesting conversation with Larry about the FBI and the truthfulness of the official Norjak narrative. Larry is circumspect about what the FBI says happened. He has clearly been around the block a few times, but I did not find him cynical or jaded. Actually, I found him to be a very calm, wise, cognizant individual.

Why would an "FAA" guy climb to the top of the stairs and hope to have a conversation with Cooper?  Unless Cooper was the dumbest fellow on the Earth that night, he already knew he was in trouble.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2811 on: December 15, 2020, 11:24:30 AM »
Quote
Larry was quite specific: FBI agent; his name was John.

Specific enough to have two stories and failure in giving a last name for conformation?

It's never wise to just popup into a hostage situation without negotiations or acting as a crew member or employee as cover. you would think Cooper was watching that door, unless the curtain blocked his view?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 11:31:13 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2812 on: December 15, 2020, 11:52:38 AM »
Quote
The phone interview may make the most sense, but it's not what Larry Feingold told me, which was supported by several other passengers - that two men brought the money onboard and transferred it to Tina at the front of the passenger cabin. Then all the passengers deplaned.


I see several problems. Spreckel (passenger) gives a similar statement made by the crew. how many people read the article about this story?

Cooper was aware of who should be on the plane after it lands in Seattle. why would he allow someone unknown to walk down the isle towards him? all the passengers said a woman/blonde/stew walked down the isle with a bag/money etc. not one mentions a male involved. as mentioned before, it's not wise to do something like this when you have a hostage situation. the flight crew watched her go outside, even stating they could of escaped leaving Cooper alone on the plane.

People like to inject themselves into things. that goes for law enforcement as well. I don't see a benefit in covering this up.

What is the jurisdiction of the FAA in something like this?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 12:10:58 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2813 on: December 15, 2020, 03:20:36 PM »
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The phone interview may make the most sense, but it's not what Larry Feingold told me, which was supported by several other passengers - that two men brought the money onboard and transferred it to Tina at the front of the passenger cabin. Then all the passengers deplaned.


I see several problems. Spreckel (passenger) gives a similar statement made by the crew. how many people read the article about this story?

Cooper was aware of who should be on the plane after it lands in Seattle. why would he allow someone unknown to walk down the isle towards him? all the passengers said a woman/blonde/stew walked down the isle with a bag/money etc. not one mentions a male involved. as mentioned before, it's not wise to do something like this when you have a hostage situation. the flight crew watched her go outside, even stating they could of escaped leaving Cooper alone on the plane.

People like to inject themselves into things. that goes for law enforcement as well. I don't see a benefit in covering this up.

What is the jurisdiction of the FAA in something like this?

The FAA's only role that night was to comply with any request related to air traffic control matters.  They did not have any law enforcement duties as such.  The FBI agents on site were responsible for that and they had agreed with NWA to not interfere in the matter at that point.

 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2814 on: December 15, 2020, 04:41:28 PM »
I fail to see any reasoning for the FAA to even be around? wasn't called the FAA at the time, was it?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2815 on: December 15, 2020, 05:03:42 PM »
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The phone interview may make the most sense, but it's not what Larry Feingold told me, which was supported by several other passengers - that two men brought the money onboard and transferred it to Tina at the front of the passenger cabin. Then all the passengers deplaned.


I see several problems. Spreckel (passenger) gives a similar statement made by the crew. how many people read the article about this story?

Cooper was aware of who should be on the plane after it lands in Seattle. why would he allow someone unknown to walk down the isle towards him? all the passengers said a woman/blonde/stew walked down the isle with a bag/money etc. not one mentions a male involved. as mentioned before, it's not wise to do something like this when you have a hostage situation. the flight crew watched her go outside, even stating they could of escaped leaving Cooper alone on the plane.

People like to inject themselves into things. that goes for law enforcement as well. I don't see a benefit in covering this up.

What is the jurisdiction of the FAA in something like this?

As I have stated many times and written, the story I have received from Larry Finegold and several other passengers is that two men entered 305 with the money. Note: one passenger says they carried a bank bag each, for a total of two bags of money, even though that is implausible.

In the forward part of the plane they delivered the money to Tina, who carried it down the aisle way to the rear of the plane where she gave it to Cooper.

Yes, many people saw Tina carry the money bag down the aisle, mostly notably Jack Almstad, who clearly saw stacks of money sticking out, and that is when he knew a skyjacking was probably in progress.

What "John" the FBI agent did after giving the money bag to Tina is unclear. He apparently walked down the aisle way as far as Row 6 where Larry Finegold was sitting, and he may have continued even further. What happened after that - who stopped him, where, and how he got turned around and departed the plane - I don't know as I have no information on that.

I have no idea why an FAA official would want to board the plane, or even be allowed by the FBI. I have no corroboration on that happenstance, either. Personally, I assume the "FAA" story is a spin job to cover for the presence of an FBI agent aboard 305.

So there are three scenarios to consider:

1. The official story is correct: Tina walked down the airstairs, picked up the SeaFirst money bag from Al Lee and Det. Owen McKenna and carried it onto 305, giving it directly to Cooper in Row 18.

2. John the FBI agent and Another Guy (Al Lee? Owen McKenna?) came onboard and delivered the money bag to Tina by the forward door, as per Larry Finegold and several passengers.

3. Tina got the money, as per #1 above, and some FAA Guy boarded the plane at the same time, and stayed for an undetermined period of time, as per rumors and a solitary 302.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 05:09:48 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2816 on: December 15, 2020, 05:08:10 PM »
Quote
Phone Interview with Larry Finegold Transcription: “Cooper” August 17, 2012

Finally, after a few minutes of what seemed like loading fuel on the plane, the front door opened, and they told people they could start exiting the plane – there was an announcement made – and the first person that I saw down as I, cause we were just de-planing out on the runway and going down just a set of stairs that they had rolled up, first person I saw that I recognized was an FBI agent who I knew because I was assisting the United States Attorney at the time, and I said to him, “John, what in the world’s going on?” and he said, “Larry, just keep going, there’s a skyjacker on the plane.” And that’s the first thing I knew about the skyjacking.

The above is Larry too? his credibility is damaged.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2817 on: December 15, 2020, 05:17:23 PM »
Yes, it is.

It may also point to another dynamic, namely, why or how would Larry Finegold be convinced to change his story. FBI pressure?

Also, we have the dynamic of age and forgetfulness.

Further, we have the desire for embellishment, fame and glory.

However, Larry Finegold seems like a very stand-up guy. He is a very successful attorney, with offices in Seattle and Tel Aviv. He owns several homes in Israel and the United States. He speaks in a mature, thoughtful manner, reflecting a man who is secure and accomplished.

He is not a fame-junkie, apparently, as he told me that he has turned down many requests for interviews, including one from Oprah Winfrey. He and I had a wonderful chat on our first phone call, but he has never responded to my subsequent requests. I assume he feels that he has told me everything he has to tell, and doesn't desire to spend any more time on the phone with me.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2818 on: December 15, 2020, 05:22:24 PM »
The phone conversation was in 2012..the other story was in 2018, if not mistaken?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2819 on: December 15, 2020, 05:31:02 PM »
Finegold gave the phone interview in 2012. this sounds extremely plausible and believable. the story of agents coming onto the plane started in 2017/18.

You can have Olympic gold metals around your neck while telling whoppers..

IMO, it doesn't benefit anything hiding or creating some alternative ending? it can't forward or damper the case what so ever?

You would think that after hearing something like that and then watch your friend walk to the back of the cabin you would turn around to look?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 05:43:23 PM by Shutter »