Here's a question worth pondering:

What was Cooper's Plan A?

After all, it seems apparent that Cooper had to improvise quite a bit and that his original plan called for jumping near Seattle. Therefore, if he had executed his plan flawlessly, what would that have looked like? More importantly, what does that tell us about him?

Cheers!

Since very few actual facts are known, let’s debate your opinion that Cooper’s original plan called for jumping near Seattle. I find that to be an interesting theory but I don’t see it any more logical or likely than many other’s theories.
Since you like to debate, let’s hear your theory of why you think it was apparent that his original plan was to jump near Seattle !

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Here's a question worth pondering:

What was Cooper's Plan A?

After all, it seems apparent that Cooper had to improvise quite a bit and that his original plan called for jumping near Seattle. Therefore, if he had executed his plan flawlessly, what would that have looked like? More importantly, what does that tell us about him?

Cheers!

Since very few actual facts are known, let’s debate your opinion that Cooper’s original plan called for jumping near Seattle. I find that to be an interesting theory but I don’t see it any more logical or likely than many other’s theories.
Since you like to debate, let’s hear your theory of why you think it was apparent that his original plan was to jump near Seattle !

Kermit, in the now 11 years that I have been on the Cooper thread on DropZone and Shutter's thread, everyone who has examined the evidence seems to have come to the conclusion that Cooper planned to jump as soon as  possible after take off and that would be near Seattle.

Since the evidence and Cooper's actions supporting a jump near Seattle have been discussed at length both here and on DZ, there is no reason to post them here again.  All you have to do is read the posts for yourself.

The jump near Seattle idea is not something that popped up last week.  And we don't have to "debate" everything again for each new poster that turns up on these threads.  Just read the posts.

Robert: Who is everyone?  I've examined the evidence and I believe he jumped pretty much where he wanted to.  I also believe that he was surprised he got as far as he did in the heist, but that he still had a general plan as to where to jump.

I acknowledge at one time I believed he likely wanted to jump as soon as possible, but with the questions still around as to if he wanted the stairs down for takeoff, and if in fact he wanted them down, was it because he wanted an early jump, or was it for a different reason?

I could argue that he wanted to jump soon after takeoff, but I could also argue that he jumped where he wanted.

The one sticky point on jumping after takeoff is "Where does he land?"  Does he land in the city limits (he is south of the city, but it is still the city)? On concrete, on a busy road, near a factory, near a rail yard, on top of an apartment building?  Where do you think he planned to land?

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On your previous: 2) The railroad tracks do not travel near or behind the Fazio's property. For those who care to look, they will note that the tracks are on the other side of Lake River. No one is honestly arguing that Cooper swam across a river to get to the "island" that Tena Bar is on only to hike another 2,3,4 or 5 miles to Tena Bar, are they? Moreover, no one is honestly arguing that Cooper jumped off the train at the terminal in Vancouver then walked 7 miles north to Tena Bar, only to turn around and hike another 7 miles back to Vancouver, are they?

1. It is a 1.3 mile distance from the tracks to the water's edge at Tina Bar in 1971-1980!
2. Tina Bar is not an island! It is a beach on the Columbia River.
3. Swam the river? What river?  Lake River formerly called Vancouver Creek, sometimes dries up in the summer according to residents in the area. During those months there is nothing to swim across. In the wetter parts of the year the water levels are cyclical, during floods a raging torrent which drains quickly. Your socalled "river" is a "creek" during most of the year according to local residents. Lake River socalled, or Vancouver Creek is a creek! That is why it was called a "creek" for decades.
4. Vancouver Creek is not 2,3,4 or 5 miles to Tena Bar!  Your math is wrong. It is at most about 1.3 miles.
5. Your last point is too hyperbolic to even comment on . . .

Please get the facts right for a change. Stop all of the BLUSTER! And stop all of the misinformation and hyperbolic 'Cooper byte' bs.

Most people familiar with this situation of the rail line from Amboy-Heisson south to Vancouver, speculate that Cooper probably got off at Vancouver when the train slowed at Vancouver.  A fact you fail to site is the fact that trains passing east of the Fazio property are usually traveling fast - too fast to board or jump from! That is a legitimate argument. So most people actually believe Cooper would have left the train when it slowed at Vancouver ... and Cooper might have walked the bridge to get across the Columbia to Portland. That bridge offers many safety portals for workers, Cooper could have used crossing the bridge. That is the scenario most people knowledgeable of this matter chose.

All I did was post Snowmman's previous 2008 post on this matter BECAUSE. You jump to the conclusion I am expressing some kind of personal theory? And you pounce like Superman leaping tall buidings and all facts and logic in a single bound. Then it turns out your basic facts are even wrong! The very least you owe your loyal audience is correct basic facts!

Pardon me for breathing! 

Bravo GEORGER, you are actually attempting to debate a point, although you are arguing a point you cannot win.

First, I did not direct my post (#2361) to you personally. Where did I say, "hey GEORGER you're theory is full of crap" or anything like that?

Second, Lake River is not a creek. Lake River is a river. It is never a creek--especially in November. That is why there are dozens of permanent house boat homes on Lake River along with a marina. It is at least 200 feet across and in some spots 300 feet across. Now you may be referring to a branch of Lake River that leads into Salmon Creek which leads to the main Lake River. That said, I can overlook this error because it is you who are not familiar with the area.

Third, Tena Bar is indeed located on what is effectively an island. I did not say Tena Bar was an island (SEE BOLD TYPE BELOW) It is completely surrounded by water--Columbia River, Lake River and Vancouver Lake--25 miles around. If it were not for a 400-foot land bridge three miles south of the Fazio property near Vancouver Lake, Tena Bar would literally be on an island.

Fourth, the shortest distance possible from the railroad tracks to Tena Bar is 1.3 miles. That is why I worded my statement that he would have had to swim Lake River and walk 2, 3, 4, 5 miles etc. depending upon where he actually swam across Lake River.

Fifth, if you read my point #2 carefully you will see that I do refer to the notion of DBC jumping off in Vancouver and walking 7 miles up to Tena Bar. For your convenience point #2 follows:

2) The railroad tracks do not travel near or behind the Fazio's property. For those who care to look, they will note that the tracks are on the other side of Lake River. No one is honestly arguing that Cooper swam across a river to get to the "island" that Tena Bar is on only to hike another 2,3,4 or 5 miles to Tena Bar, are they? Moreover, no one is honestly arguing that Cooper jumped off the train at the terminal in Vancouver then walked 7 miles north to Tena Bar, only to turn around and hike another 7 miles back to Vancouver, are they?

You see GEORGER, when you challenge me you will always lose. That is because I know what I am talking about...even though I was a commentator on a TV show called High Stakes Hold'em, ran for public office, occasionally smoke a cigar, and have a DBC show premiering this summer.

Cheers!

Admirable demonstration of the profile involved!

Very clearly we are in uncharted territory. Should children be allowed to watch?

Hey Diddle Diddle,
And the dish ran away with the spoon.

 
 

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Here's a question worth pondering:

What was Cooper's Plan A?

After all, it seems apparent that Cooper had to improvise quite a bit and that his original plan called for jumping near Seattle. Therefore, if he had executed his plan flawlessly, what would that have looked like? More importantly, what does that tell us about him?

Cheers!

Since very few actual facts are known, let’s debate your opinion that Cooper’s original plan called for jumping near Seattle. I find that to be an interesting theory but I don’t see it any more logical or likely than many other’s theories.
Since you like to debate, let’s hear your theory of why you think it was apparent that his original plan was to jump near Seattle !

Kermit, in the now 11 years that I have been on the Cooper thread on DropZone and Shutter's thread, everyone who has examined the evidence seems to have come to the conclusion that Cooper planned to jump as soon as  possible after take off and that would be near Seattle.

Since the evidence and Cooper's actions supporting a jump near Seattle have been discussed at length both here and on DZ, there is no reason to post them here again.  All you have to do is read the posts for yourself.

The jump near Seattle idea is not something that popped up last week.  And we don't have to "debate" everything again for each new poster that turns up on these threads.  Just read the posts.

Robert: Who is everyone?  I've examined the evidence and I believe he jumped pretty much where he wanted to.  I also believe that he was surprised he got as far as he did in the heist, but that he still had a general plan as to where to jump.

I acknowledge at one time I believed he likely wanted to jump as soon as possible, but with the questions still around as to if he wanted the stairs down for takeoff, and if in fact he wanted them down, was it because he wanted an early jump, or was it for a different reason?

I could argue that he wanted to jump soon after takeoff, but I could also argue that he jumped where he wanted.

The one sticky point on jumping after takeoff is "Where does he land?"  Does he land in the city limits (he is south of the city, but it is still the city)? On concrete, on a busy road, near a factory, near a rail yard, on top of an apartment building?  Where do you think he planned to land?

Who is everyone?  Well, you could get a good idea of who everyone is if you bothered to read the posts that predate your arrival here in 2017.  In fact, there was a Cooper thread on DropZone that was started some time prior to the present one which was started in 2008 if I remember correctly.

There was no way on God's Green Earth that Cooper could have known his location to within 20 or 30 miles when he jumped.  He would have to have made a wild guess as to his location.  And he certainly was not dressed for a jump into a mountain or wilderness area.  This little problem with an overcast and several additional cloud layers below the airliner means that Cooper could not see the ground and couldn't know what flight path the airliner was taking.  Then with the airliner's airspeed varying widely during the first 15 minutes or so after taking off, Cooper could not possibly have known its location along any flight path. 

There is no indication whatsoever that Cooper had an assistant in the hijacking.  His fate was determined solely by himself.

For additional information, read the posts both here on Shutter's site and on DropZone.

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Here's a question worth pondering:

What was Cooper's Plan A?

After all, it seems apparent that Cooper had to improvise quite a bit and that his original plan called for jumping near Seattle. Therefore, if he had executed his plan flawlessly, what would that have looked like? More importantly, what does that tell us about him?

Cheers!

Since very few actual facts are known, let’s debate your opinion that Cooper’s original plan called for jumping near Seattle. I find that to be an interesting theory but I don’t see it any more logical or likely than many other’s theories.
Since you like to debate, let’s hear your theory of why you think it was apparent that his original plan was to jump near Seattle !

Kermit, in the now 11 years that I have been on the Cooper thread on DropZone and Shutter's thread, everyone who has examined the evidence seems to have come to the conclusion that Cooper planned to jump as soon as  possible after take off and that would be near Seattle.

Since the evidence and Cooper's actions supporting a jump near Seattle have been discussed at length both here and on DZ, there is no reason to post them here again.  All you have to do is read the posts for yourself.

The jump near Seattle idea is not something that popped up last week.  And we don't have to "debate" everything again for each new poster that turns up on these threads.  Just read the posts.

Robert: Who is everyone?  I've examined the evidence and I believe he jumped pretty much where he wanted to.  I also believe that he was surprised he got as far as he did in the heist, but that he still had a general plan as to where to jump.

I acknowledge at one time I believed he likely wanted to jump as soon as possible, but with the questions still around as to if he wanted the stairs down for takeoff, and if in fact he wanted them down, was it because he wanted an early jump, or was it for a different reason?

I could argue that he wanted to jump soon after takeoff, but I could also argue that he jumped where he wanted.

The one sticky point on jumping after takeoff is "Where does he land?"  Does he land in the city limits (he is south of the city, but it is still the city)? On concrete, on a busy road, near a factory, near a rail yard, on top of an apartment building?  Where do you think he planned to land?

Cooper chose and put on a chute as soon as chutes were brought on board. He then issued a brand new list of demands conveyed through Tina to the cockpit which required discussion and resolution. In that confusion he also  complained the fueling was taking too long and the knapsack had not been provided so ... he tried to fabricate a container for the money he could tie to his chute or himself ... all the while negotiating the stews leaving and getting the rear door open and stairs down. Long passage of time required. Sun and Moon going down!

If he had intended or needed to jump 'near Seattle' all he had to do was bypass HIS new list of demands, put on a chute, get passengers off the plane, skip refueling, get the rear hole opened, get airborne, and jump! The plane landed with enough fuel to get back airborne immediately as soon as chutes were delivered, if that is what Cooper wanted and intended. 

Cooper did none of that because he never intended to jump 'near Seattle'!

Jumping near Seattle is as  "jumping near Seattle" DOES! Cooper's plan and intentions are clearly demonstrated by WHAT HE DID! And in the order he did it. Cooper had a straight path to landing and getting back in the air quickly  and jumping near Seattle if that's what he wanted. He did the exact opposite.

Larry Carr's assumption was that Cooper was an idiot and had no control over events. Cooper was not an idiot and he did exactly what he originally wanted to do in the order he wanted to do it in (his original plan) - he consumed time and allowed time to pass! - which he could have avoided completely if he had wanted to get back airborne and jump near Seattle!

Knowledge/plan = Performance. Those are the well tested principles of Psychology & Testing refined over 100 years of psychological testing. Everything else people propose is bullshit. 

I have flown out of Seattle hundreds of times.

Given that the jet was heading to Reno--not Portland--it is entirely plausible that the jet could have flown due east to the Yakima area, then down to Reno, or headed north toward Everett before heading east and ultimately down to Reno, or headed toward the Washington coast before heading south then ultimately east to Reno.

There are way too many variables especially when you consider this was not your typical flight. Therefore, there is no way Cooper could have possibly known where the jet would be 36 minutes after takeoff flying in the soup at night.

I have flown out of Seattle hundreds of times.

Given that the jet was heading to Reno--not Portland--it is entirely plausible that the jet could have flown due east to the Yakima area, then down to Reno, or headed north toward Everett before heading east and ultimately down to Reno, or headed toward the Washington coast before heading south then ultimately east to Reno.

There are way too many variables especially when you consider this was not your typical flight. Therefore, there is no way Cooper could have possibly known where the jet would be 36 minutes after takeoff flying in the soup at night.

That means that you are not as smart as Cooper was! 

Cooper was DB Cooper. You are an ELVIS impersonator trying to hijack the Cooper case for self promotion and financial gain!

You are simply profiting off what DB Cooper did - by any means you can. Its all Koolaide for the masses ...
   

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EU good questions. I had an answer typed and got logged out, I'll get back to it.  What do you mean by question 1, abort? As in he boards the plane in Portland and does not hijack it, therefore landing in Seattle and getting off?

Yes precisely.

I believe this is often overlooked. Nonetheless, it seems likely that Cooper would have pondered this possibility.

You believe.

You believe Tina Bar is an island!  And holding and playing with a cigar for a camera equals intelligence!   

I believe you believe theatrics and polemics is more powerful than science or common sense and will win the day!