Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 656102 times)

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1470 on: January 07, 2018, 06:06:00 PM »
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I was escorted by two US Air Marshals from my gate to my plane in Miami when I tried to board a flight to the Bahamas and was carrying a spear gun in my hand. They took the spear gun and stowed it on the airplane, and FAs handed it to me when we landed in Nassau.

You saw African Americans board a flight in the 70s? I have no memory of seeing anything like that. The only folks without white skins that I saw were Puerto Ricans (non-blancos, as they say) heading home to San Juan from NYC.
Yeah, that's a pretty white group getting off that plane in the Cronkite video. Someone else mentioned being sure Cooper must be Mexican/Latino because of that common element of the witness descriptions. No accent, though. It's also possible the guy just had a really deep tan. I'm 99.5% Irish/English and had never managed to tan in my life; at 22 I visited Thailand and burnt through clouds. Then my skin was so dark, only my eyes gave my race away. I'm not sure without some sort of other distinguishing factor, like an accent, you could be sure someone is "Latin". Used to teach ESL students from Mexico, Central and South America - their skin tones were a pretty mixed bag, and I certainly know Caucasians who don't look it. One kid in high school was so dark compared to his brother, his bro convinced the entire class he'd been adopted from Vietnam, but that we weren't to tell him we knew because it upset him. Someone got drunk on grad night and asked him if he missed Vietnam. The kid was a Newfie and had no idea what she was going on about.  ;D
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1471 on: January 07, 2018, 08:42:57 PM »
Um, Lynn, I know what a Newfie is, but most people here don't. I suggest you explain.
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1472 on: January 07, 2018, 08:49:42 PM »
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Um, Lynn, I know what a Newfie is, but most people here don't. I suggest you explain.
A Newfie is from Newfoundland (my homeland - I was born on the island and raised on the mainland region in Labrador). The vast majority are of pure or mixed Irish/UK descent and while our pallor varies, our accent is unmistakable, retaining some vocabulary and speech patterns from the old countries that stretch back hundreds of years. (Also, Polish jokes in Canada are Newfie jokes.) A Newfie is as far from a Vietnamese person as you can get without going to Mars.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1473 on: January 07, 2018, 11:35:13 PM »
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Um, Lynn, I know what a Newfie is, but most people here don't. I suggest you explain.
A Newfie is from Newfoundland (my homeland - I was born on the island and raised on the mainland region in Labrador). The vast majority are of pure or mixed Irish/UK descent and while our pallor varies, our accent is unmistakable, retaining some vocabulary and speech patterns from the old countries that stretch back hundreds of years. (Also, Polish jokes in Canada are Newfie jokes.) A Newfie is as far from a Vietnamese person as you can get without going to Mars.

Interesting. No Scandinavians there in Newfoundland? I just assumed there would be - but havent looked that haplotype up...

Ever been to L'Anse aux Meadows ?
 
(wiki) Human habitation in Newfoundland and Labrador can be traced back about 9000 years to the people of the Maritime Archaic Tradition.[1] They were gradually displaced by people of the Dorset Culture the L'nu, or Mi'kmaq and finally by the Innu and Inuit in Labrador and the Beothuks on the island.[2]
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 12:06:10 AM by georger »
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1474 on: January 08, 2018, 01:11:05 AM »
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Um, Lynn, I know what a Newfie is, but most people here don't. I suggest you explain.
A Newfie is from Newfoundland (my homeland - I was born on the island and raised on the mainland region in Labrador). The vast majority are of pure or mixed Irish/UK descent and while our pallor varies, our accent is unmistakable, retaining some vocabulary and speech patterns from the old countries that stretch back hundreds of years. (Also, Polish jokes in Canada are Newfie jokes.) A Newfie is as far from a Vietnamese person as you can get without going to Mars.

Interesting. No Scandinavians there in Newfoundland? I just assumed there would be - but havent looked that haplotype up...

Ever been to L'Anse aux Meadows ?
 
(wiki) Human habitation in Newfoundland and Labrador can be traced back about 9000 years to the people of the Maritime Archaic Tradition.[1] They were gradually displaced by people of the Dorset Culture the L'nu, or Mi'kmaq and finally by the Innu and Inuit in Labrador and the Beothuks on the island.[2]
The Beothuks are, sadly, an extinct tribe. The Mi'kmaq and Inu are still around, but are more coastal. Labrador has only had a highway across it for a very short time - until I was a teen, the only ways out were via plane or train, as there was no road connecting various parts of Labrador. Most of the settlement in the mining towns of Western Labrador, where I grew up, was Quebecois, Island Newfoundlander, Portuguese; the town itself was built by a mining company in the 60s. The Vikings did land at Newfoundland, but I don't think their settlements were permanent - at least, I never knew anyone Scandinavian. Newfoundland only joined Confederation in 1949 - before that, it had a short-lived experiment with self-government. My parents were born Newfoundlanders, but not Canadians.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1475 on: January 08, 2018, 03:42:13 AM »
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Um, Lynn, I know what a Newfie is, but most people here don't. I suggest you explain.
A Newfie is from Newfoundland (my homeland - I was born on the island and raised on the mainland region in Labrador). The vast majority are of pure or mixed Irish/UK descent and while our pallor varies, our accent is unmistakable, retaining some vocabulary and speech patterns from the old countries that stretch back hundreds of years. (Also, Polish jokes in Canada are Newfie jokes.) A Newfie is as far from a Vietnamese person as you can get without going to Mars.

Interesting. No Scandinavians there in Newfoundland? I just assumed there would be - but havent looked that haplotype up...

Ever been to L'Anse aux Meadows ?
 
(wiki) Human habitation in Newfoundland and Labrador can be traced back about 9000 years to the people of the Maritime Archaic Tradition.[1] They were gradually displaced by people of the Dorset Culture the L'nu, or Mi'kmaq and finally by the Innu and Inuit in Labrador and the Beothuks on the island.[2]
The Beothuks are, sadly, an extinct tribe. The Mi'kmaq and Inu are still around, but are more coastal. Labrador has only had a highway across it for a very short time - until I was a teen, the only ways out were via plane or train, as there was no road connecting various parts of Labrador. Most of the settlement in the mining towns of Western Labrador, where I grew up, was Quebecois, Island Newfoundlander, Portuguese; the town itself was built by a mining company in the 60s. The Vikings did land at Newfoundland, but I don't think their settlements were permanent - at least, I never knew anyone Scandinavian. Newfoundland only joined Confederation in 1949 - before that, it had a short-lived experiment with self-government. My parents were born Newfoundlanders, but not Canadians.

Thanks Lynn - thats interesting history.
 
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Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1476 on: January 08, 2018, 02:02:43 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers.

I have read several accounts of the DC-9 having a Cooper Vane installed?? Why install them if the stairs couldn't opened in flight? 

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Wikiwand certainly speaks authoritatively about the DC-9 having a Cooper vane, but I never heard of a DC-9 being outfitted with one. That's a cool pix of the CV, though. The COOPER exhibit at the WSHM had one on display that we could play with. The spring wasn't too strong. Pretty simple device.

One of the elements of the Cooper story that hasn't been discussed much is the impact of Norjak on airline safety. Specifically, I think it is important for us to have a better understanding of what regs and policies were implemented and when. If Norjak was a rogue operation to foster airline safety, how effective was it? That needs to be more fully researched.

The ex SAS DC 9-21 I jumped from in 2006 at WFFC DID have a Cooper Vane installed, for sure. Since we had removed the stairs for a fast mass exit the vane didn't serve its intended function, but it was there. I took a good look at it when inspecting the plane on the ground.

377
 

FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1477 on: January 08, 2018, 02:42:50 PM »
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Anybody consider the C-9A Nightingale as inspiration.. used for medical evacuations and special missions, has the aft stairs and ex USAF military would have some experience.

C-9A Nightingale - 21 aeromedical evacuation aircraft based on the DC-9-32CF for U.S. Air Force delivered during 1968–69.

But it couldn't lower the aft stairs in flight.  The 727 was the only one that could do that.

Is that for the pre 1970 C-9A Nightingale... Looking for info on that model and use.. has it ever taken off with stairs down during military ops?

In 1971, the 727 was the only American airliner that could lower its aft stairs in flight and that information was known to only a few people.

I do not have any information on the C-9, but McDonnel-Douglas apparently did not have to make any modifications to the DC-9 airliner frustrate hijackers.

I have read several accounts of the DC-9 having a Cooper Vane installed?? Why install them if the stairs couldn't opened in flight? 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

Wikiwand certainly speaks authoritatively about the DC-9 having a Cooper vane, but I never heard of a DC-9 being outfitted with one. That's a cool pix of the CV, though. The COOPER exhibit at the WSHM had one on display that we could play with. The spring wasn't too strong. Pretty simple device.

One of the elements of the Cooper story that hasn't been discussed much is the impact of Norjak on airline safety. Specifically, I think it is important for us to have a better understanding of what regs and policies were implemented and when. If Norjak was a rogue operation to foster airline safety, how effective was it? That needs to be more fully researched.

The ex SAS DC 9-21 I jumped from in 2006 at WFFC DID have a Cooper Vane installed, for sure. Since we had removed the stairs for a fast mass exit the vane didn't serve its intended function, but it was there. I took a good look at it when inspecting the plane on the ground.

377

That suggests that the DC-9 Airstair could have been opened inflight.. and the "idea" may not have been exclusive to the 727.


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In consideration of the foregoing, and for the reasons given in notice 72-15, Parts 25 and 121 of the Federal Aviation Regulations are amended, effective December 31, 1972, as follows:

1. By adding a new paragraph (j) to Sec. 25.809 to read as follows:

Sec. 25.809 Emergency exit arrangement.

* * * * *

(j) When required by the operating rules for any large passenger-carrying turbojet-powered airplane, each ventral exit and tailcone exit must be-
(1) Designed and constructed so that it cannot be opened during flight; and
(2) Marked with a placard readable from a distance of 30 inches and installed at a conspicuous location near the means of opening the exit, stating that the exit has been designed and constructed so that it cannot be opened during flight.

2. By adding a new paragraph (k) to Sec. 121.310 to read as follows:

Sec. 121.310 Additional emergency equipment.

* * * * *

(k) After August 28, 1973, on each large passenger-carrying turbojet-powered airplane, each ventral exit and tailcone exit must be-
(1) Designed and constructed so that it cannot be opened during flight; and
(2) Marked with a placard readable from a distance of 30 inches and installed at a conspicuous location near the means of opening the exit, stating that the exit has been designed and constructed so that it cannot be opened during flight.

(Secs. 313(a), 601, 603, 604, and 605 of the Federal Aviation Act of 1958, 49 U.S.C. 1354(a), 1421, 1423, 1424, and 1425. Sec. 6(c) of the Department of Transportation Act; 49 U.S.C. 1655(c)).
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1478 on: January 08, 2018, 03:33:10 PM »
What happened to the Tina Bar Money thread?
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1479 on: January 08, 2018, 03:35:51 PM »
Some thread was locked down by Shutter for a while due to squabbling, might have been that one.

377
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1480 on: January 08, 2018, 03:37:40 PM »
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Some thread was locked down by Shutter for a while due to squabbling, might have been that one.

377

all is under control ...  :congrats:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 04:20:48 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1481 on: January 08, 2018, 04:34:00 PM »
I will be opening the T-bar thread soon...a reply will follow...I just got home and have some fires to put out first from work prior to dealing with the forum...


Shutter
 

Offline JenSam17

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1482 on: January 11, 2018, 09:13:31 AM »
Good morning,
i am new to posting on this Forum, although I've been following the Norjack case for a few years now.   I am in the midst of reading Bruce Smith's book and I'm very much enjoying it.   I have one burning question . . . What does one do with ransom money?   Surely, Dan Cooper was not stupid.  He must have known the FBI would be tracking the serial numbers on the bills.  Where could one spend or launder money without getting caught?  A casino?  A foreign country?    I am naive in these matters.     Because the bulk of the money was never found, does this necessarily mean that the money was not spent? 
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1483 on: January 11, 2018, 10:05:55 AM »
I can't say what his intentions were, but I think it's probably a moot point. I think that the money find at TB is probably a good indication that Cooper, if he even survived, did not get away with the cash. This is just my opinion, of course.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1484 on: January 11, 2018, 04:10:54 PM »
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Good morning,
i am new to posting on this Forum, although I've been following the Norjack case for a few years now.   I am in the midst of reading Bruce Smith's book and I'm very much enjoying it.   I have one burning question . . . What does one do with ransom money?   Surely, Dan Cooper was not stupid.  He must have known the FBI would be tracking the serial numbers on the bills.  Where could one spend or launder money without getting caught?  A casino?  A foreign country?    I am naive in these matters.     Because the bulk of the money was never found, does this necessarily mean that the money was not spent?

Thanks for the kudos, Sammy. If I had 200,000K and had just stolen an airplane that I didn't want to go to jail for, I'd consider the following:

1. Make a political contribution to ensure that elected officials would handcuff the FBI.
2. Initiate a sting operation on J. Edgar Hoover and get pix of him having illegal sex.
3. Go to the Cayman Islands and create a bank that specializes in Black Market financing.
4. Buy a lot of drugs in Thailand through my Air America contacts, (and the USG, of course) and use the drug trade to launder my money.
5. Go to Rome and set up shop in the Vatican Bank, paying off cardinals as I go.
6. Become a real estate developer.
7. Partner-up with a cash-strapped casino owner in Atlantic City
8. Write a book at DB Cooper and the FBI! - Nah, just kidding.

Welcome aboard, Jen Samm-
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 04:50:10 PM by Bruce A. Smith »