Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 635034 times)

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: moving
« Reply #120 on: March 05, 2015, 09:52:29 PM »
Move the discussion where we need to go, Shut.

As for spin, this is part of a bigger issue literally and metaphorically - who is saying what about the jump and why. Flip side of that is how much experience is necessary to make the jump successfully?

There is certainly a WIDE range of opinion. But here are some facts to consider:

1. McNally - no experience whatsoever. Had to be shown how to put the parachute on. Made it okay, but not with his money.

2. Cossey, circa 1971, said Coop only needed about six lessons with an instructor to make a successful jump.  By 2009, Coss was adamant that Cooper was a "no pull."  2013, Earl is dead, and in 2014, Geoffrey is scrubbing Coss' reputation clean and all we know for sure about Earl J is that he was the rigger.

3, Larry Carr: Cooper was a tumbling, bumbling fool who only knew enough to get himself into trouble. Larry also felt that the 22 degree temps on the stairs would freeze Coop silly, although we now know that half of Boston goes skinny-dipping in the harbor when the temperature goes above 32 for more than an hour. (At least that's what my sister tells me...)

4. Robb Heady jumped into a 300 mph slipstream without goggles. Pulled at 1K when she saw the ground rushing up at him. Tumbled initially for 15 seconds or so, but with 160 jumps under his belt knew how to arch his way into a stable free-fall.  Robb jumped from 12K wearing only a wind-breaker and a fishing vest. He said the air was "chilly." He also said there was no significant wind on the stairs.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: moving
« Reply #121 on: March 05, 2015, 10:02:43 PM »
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Move the discussion where we need to go, Shut.

I already mentioned the problem. I'm a little busy at the moment. I'll move the topic when I get a chance. if the earths rotation stops, I'll jump right on it... :o
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: moving
« Reply #122 on: March 05, 2015, 10:07:38 PM »
As a Minnesotan, I try not to laugh about the cold arguments. I don't even put gloves on until it's -10f.

As for Cooper's personal history and mental attributes, I think the FBI has always gotten him wrong. Kaye's analysis of the tie shows Cooper was an educated, relatively successful person who held a job in a technical field. Cooper was more than just clever, he was smart. The idea of Cooper being an "old con" on his last gig seem silly now. [Assuming the tie was actually Cooper's.]

Which is not to say someone like Melvin Wilson couldn't be Cooper, it's just very unlikely.



 

Offline Shutter

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Re: moving
« Reply #123 on: March 05, 2015, 10:10:15 PM »
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As a Minnesotan, I try not to laugh about the cold arguments. I don't even put gloves on until it's -10f.

Well, here we have another problem. I was like that while living in Ohio. now, I'm cold at 65 degree's. we southern boys bundle up down here  ;D

A couple weeks ago it got down in the low 40's with a wind chill of mid 30's. I thought they were testing cryogenics down here  :D :D :D :D :D
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 10:12:45 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #124 on: March 05, 2015, 10:32:54 PM »
I moved the discussion to here. we were in suspect and confessions. trying to keep the categories flowing correctly......
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #125 on: March 05, 2015, 11:53:20 PM »
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DNA was first used as a forensic tool in the mid-1980s, in the UK, according to a recent Netflix docu that I watched. It took about another 5-10 years for techniques to be perfected and for LE to realize what they had.

The German investigator B. Mueller conceived the use of alpha-amylase as a forensic tool to validate the presence of saliva on a given surface, in 1928. By 1950, 37 standard forensic tests had been developed using saliva as the target. Hundreds of tests using saliva had been developed within medical science!

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If agents don't order tests, tests are not done. If agents don't know what tests to order then nothing may be done ... Many agents in the early 70s knew very little about forensic testing because it wasn't in their standard training regime. Some sections of the country were worse than others. Out of all of the agents that worked the Tina Bar dig in 1980, only one had an average science-forensics background! He is the one who insisted on scoring a grid in the sand .... "with the jawbone of an ass"! The sense of doing that became apparent later.

“Cain slew Abel with the jawbone of an ass,” He had left his molecular separator laser at home.

The point is, Bruce, in the 1970s there was a well developed arsenal of forensic methods available, to those that chose to use them. It was a management issue far more than a scientific toolkit issue.

 :)

[edit] Cooper may have left evidence behind thinking that LE wasn't up to the task. Or, he may have had no concern about evidence, in any event. We don't know who he was to know, do we! ;)

Idea:  Let's just assume he knew enough to get himself into trouble, but he didn't know that fingers leave finger prints! He probably ate red licorice and had a hula hoop?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 02:21:10 AM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #126 on: March 05, 2015, 11:58:12 PM »
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I moved the discussion to here. we were in suspect and confessions. trying to keep the categories flowing correctly......

Sorry I posted here! Oh well . . . I cant keep track of the herd.

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #127 on: March 06, 2015, 03:08:24 AM »
Shut, you have lived a sheltered life. You can't imagine anyone robbing a bank or hijacking an airplane who is "normal"?

Criminals are not weird or abnormal in my observation. Did you see the docu on the Vatican that's on Netflix that I recommended?  The priests said mass in their vestments after having an all-night sex orgy. That is fairly normal behavior for the Vatican, as I understand it. The larger question is what to do about it. Clearly, one thing that I recommend is not to allow those fellows to be near children.

So, stealing an airplane could be something as simple as climbing a mountain - they do it just because it's there.

As for threatening to kill people with a bomb, lots of guys enjoy killing. I was surprised to learn from so many vets in therapy that they admitted they enjoyed the hunt immensely, and war was fun - they had the best sex of their lives.

Maybe DB Cooper just enjoyed the turn on. I think it is an investigatory mistake to think that DB Cooper was a guy like you, a man who does what you would do, thinks and feels as you do.

That perspective is what Sluggo called "cultural goggles" and I think it is an important dynamic to bring to the Cooper conversation.

I suspect that DB Cooper was a man very different from you or I.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 03:09:07 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #128 on: March 06, 2015, 03:12:53 AM »
Georger:
Idea:  Let's just assume he knew enough to get himself into trouble, but he didn't know that fingers leave finger prints! He probably ate red licorice and had a hula hoop?


Bruce:
That's one idea, G.

Another is that DB Cooper was the smartest kid on the block and did something no other kid had ever done.  Then he ate licorice, of course.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 03:13:16 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #129 on: March 06, 2015, 06:49:36 AM »
Quote
Shut, you have lived a sheltered life. You can't imagine anyone robbing a bank or hijacking an airplane who is "normal"?

I've hardly lived a sheltered life Bruce. committing a crime that has to do with death, or violence is not a normal thing to do. sure, people make mistakes and kill someone out of anger, or snap, but it's not premeditated in some cases. hijacking a plane is not normal, if it was we would have millions of them, no? I've been down the criminal road, have you? I'm still paying for it! I'm in my 50's now, this was a long time ago back in my late teens to early 20's.

Quote
I suspect that DB Cooper was a man very different from you or I.

Meaning, not normal?
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #130 on: March 06, 2015, 02:52:47 PM »
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The problems I'm seeing in this topic area is questions that could be asked on the existing topics. Sailshaw could of easily asked his question under the Flight path thread. it's hard to narrow down a basic question while we have existing areas where they can be asked already in place. perhaps this topic should be removed, or locked for the time being?

Thoughts?

Most, but not all, of my questions could be put into categories. However, I think a case can be made for having a Q&A thread like this so people can go to one place to seek answers to specific questions without changing the trajectories of existing threads. It's something I noticed on DZ, there would be a few pages of good information, and it would get derailed by something like a question or inane comment and the discussion stops and devolves to meaninglessness.

Actually a Q&A category might be a good idea. ????? 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #131 on: March 06, 2015, 03:18:58 PM »
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The problems I'm seeing in this topic area is questions that could be asked on the existing topics. Sailshaw could of easily asked his question under the Flight path thread. it's hard to narrow down a basic question while we have existing areas where they can be asked already in place. perhaps this topic should be removed, or locked for the time being?

Thoughts?

Most, but not all, of my questions could be put into categories. However, I think a case can be made for having a Q&A thread like this so people can go to one place to seek answers to specific questions without changing the trajectories of existing threads. It's something I noticed on DZ, there would be a few pages of good information, and it would get derailed by something like a question or inane comment and the discussion stops and devolves to meaninglessness.

Actually a Q&A category might be a good idea. ?????


The problems I see is it's hard to stay on one topic while discussing this case. we are currently in "General Questions About The Case". do we really need another thread? Tina Bar, and the flight path clash constantly. then while discussing a suspect other things come into play. the majority rules here on this forum. it's up to you guys to decide if another thread needs to be added.

Should I make a poll asking this question?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 04:15:25 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #132 on: March 06, 2015, 04:24:57 PM »
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Shut, you have lived a sheltered life. You can't imagine anyone robbing a bank or hijacking an airplane who is "normal"?

I've hardly lived a sheltered life Bruce. committing a crime that has to do with death, or violence is not a normal thing to do. sure, people make mistakes and kill someone out of anger, or snap, but it's not premeditated in some cases. hijacking a plane is not normal, if it was we would have millions of them, no? I've been down the criminal road, have you? I'm still paying for it! I'm in my 50's now, this was a long time ago back in my late teens to early 20's.

Quote
I suspect that DB Cooper was a man very different from you or I.

Meaning, not normal?

Ah, what is normal? Maybe that is my cultural goggle - normal being healthy, stable, sound mind and body, etc...

I just suspect that DB Cooper is a lot different than I am. And I haven't heard anyone call me normal in quite some time.
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #133 on: March 06, 2015, 04:39:00 PM »
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The problems I'm seeing in this topic area is questions that could be asked on the existing topics. Sailshaw could of easily asked his question under the Flight path thread. it's hard to narrow down a basic question while we have existing areas where they can be asked already in place. perhaps this topic should be removed, or locked for the time being?

Thoughts?

Most, but not all, of my questions could be put into categories. However, I think a case can be made for having a Q&A thread like this so people can go to one place to seek answers to specific questions without changing the trajectories of existing threads. It's something I noticed on DZ, there would be a few pages of good information, and it would get derailed by something like a question or inane comment and the discussion stops and devolves to meaninglessness.

Actually a Q&A category might be a good idea. ?????


The problems I see is it's hard to stay on one topic while discussing this case. we are currently in "General Questions About The Case". do we really need another thread? Tina Bar, and the flight path clash constantly. then while discussing a suspect other things come into play. the majority rules here on this forum. it's up to you guys to decide if another thread needs to be added.

Should I make a poll asking this question?

Well we already have this thread: General Questions About the Case. That should handle any Q&A. People already ask questions and get answers here. We also have threads that never get used. How many pigeon holes are needed?   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 04:40:03 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #134 on: March 06, 2015, 04:43:00 PM »
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Quote
Shut, you have lived a sheltered life. You can't imagine anyone robbing a bank or hijacking an airplane who is "normal"?

I've hardly lived a sheltered life Bruce. committing a crime that has to do with death, or violence is not a normal thing to do. sure, people make mistakes and kill someone out of anger, or snap, but it's not premeditated in some cases. hijacking a plane is not normal, if it was we would have millions of them, no? I've been down the criminal road, have you? I'm still paying for it! I'm in my 50's now, this was a long time ago back in my late teens to early 20's.

Quote
I suspect that DB Cooper was a man very different from you or I.

Meaning, not normal?

Ah, what is normal? Maybe that is my cultural goggle - normal being healthy, stable, sound mind and body, etc...

I just suspect that DB Cooper is a lot different than I am. And I haven't heard anyone call me normal in quite some time.

Last time I checked, this was a DB Cooper discussion website .... not a Bruce Smith Psychoanalysis website! ??

You define normal however you want. People will either agree or disagree. Or ignore the whole thingy!

My interest is the historical facts in the DB Cooper Hijacking case: not the personality kah-kah of persons in DB Cooper social media threads on the Internet! Specifically I could care less what RobertMBlevins, Jo Weber, or msc others are doing-saying making up lying-about dirty tricks seeking fame and fortune, or what color underwear they were if any! I could care less and frankly do not wish to know what herds of goats and cats they have are and their names. I try to stick to the topic at hand and that is why I am here. Otherwise I would be somewhere else!   

If THAT is "hate mongering" as Blevins constantly refers to me as, then so be it! Mine is a personal choice I make. And I have other options available to me.


« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 04:53:01 PM by georger »