Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 372436 times)

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4470 on: December 02, 2021, 02:17:02 PM »
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Bob,
I know there are issues with the timing of the plot points on the FBI map. My point of discussion is Flight 305 being 23 nautical miles south of BTG VTC at 8:18. This would put the plane near or over the Columbia at the supposed time of the jump. I think a great many people in the Vortex would be surprised that this detail is now fact and not worthy of discussion. It's kind of a big deal, don't you think?

Chaucer, the 8:18 PM time at the 23 DME point has been a "fact" since the flight crew said they were at that point and Harrison recorded the time of their transmission as 8:18 PM.  There is nothing further to discuss about it much less argue.

Do you want to argue or "discuss" that the 7:36 PM time of the takeoff from SEATAC is not correct?
I'm not arguing at all. My point is that IF Flight305 was 23 nautical miles south of the Battle Ground beacon at 8:18 and not 8:22 then everything everyone has been saying about the Cooper case for 50 years is completely wrong. It puts the accepted flight time into question and changes the drop zone completely.

Don't you think that's something worthy of discussion?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4471 on: December 02, 2021, 05:05:31 PM »
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Bob,
I know there are issues with the timing of the plot points on the FBI map. My point of discussion is Flight 305 being 23 nautical miles south of BTG VTC at 8:18. This would put the plane near or over the Columbia at the supposed time of the jump. I think a great many people in the Vortex would be surprised that this detail is now fact and not worthy of discussion. It's kind of a big deal, don't you think?

Chaucer, the 8:18 PM time at the 23 DME point has been a "fact" since the flight crew said they were at that point and Harrison recorded the time of their transmission as 8:18 PM.  There is nothing further to discuss about it much less argue.

Do you want to argue or "discuss" that the 7:36 PM time of the takeoff from SEATAC is not correct?
I'm not arguing at all. My point is that IF Flight305 was 23 nautical miles south of the Battle Ground beacon at 8:18 and not 8:22 then everything everyone has been saying about the Cooper case for 50 years is completely wrong. It puts the accepted flight time into question and changes the drop zone completely.

Don't you think that's something worthy of discussion?

Chaucer, the 8:18 PM time at the 23 DME point is a FACT that in and of itself does NOT put the flight time into question.  It does put the so-called FBI flight PATH into question.  And I may have mentioned that point several hundred times both here and at DZ over the past 12 years.

It is the validity of the FBI flight path that should be discussed here rather than accepting it on faith and without question.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4472 on: December 02, 2021, 05:50:44 PM »
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Chaucer, the 8:18 PM time at the 23 DME point is a FACT that in and of itself does NOT put the flight time into question.  It does put the so-called FBI flight PATH into question.  And I may have mentioned that point several hundred times both here and at DZ over the past 12 years.

It is the validity of the FBI flight path that should be discussed here rather than accepting it on faith and without question.
Bob,
The FBI flight path has times associated with its plot points. 7:54, 8:10, 8:11, etc. The FBI used these times along their flight path to determine when and where DB Cooper jumped from flight 305. If these times are accurate, then it would be impossible for 305 to be 23 nautical miles south of BTG beacon at 8:18 unless it very drastically increased its airspeed. So, if the 8:18 notation is correct, then the times of the FBI plot points are wrong. If the times of FBI plot points are correct, then the 8:18 notation is wrong. It is impossible for both of them to be correct. So, which is it?

The WFP theory is irrelevant in light of these facts.

Now, having the 8:18 notation be correct would be great for me because it would fit my theory of a jump near the Columbia, but I want any evidence I use to be scrutinized before I tout it. I am asking about it not to pick a fight with you, but to do my due diligence in researching the case.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4473 on: December 02, 2021, 06:22:10 PM »
Dr Edwards needs to shut up! These details have been explosively vomited for years and must not be discussed!
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4474 on: December 03, 2021, 12:15:08 AM »
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Chaucer, the 8:18 PM time at the 23 DME point is a FACT that in and of itself does NOT put the flight time into question.  It does put the so-called FBI flight PATH into question.  And I may have mentioned that point several hundred times both here and at DZ over the past 12 years.

It is the validity of the FBI flight path that should be discussed here rather than accepting it on faith and without question.
Bob,
The FBI flight path has times associated with its plot points. 7:54, 8:10, 8:11, etc. The FBI used these times along their flight path to determine when and where DB Cooper jumped from flight 305. If these times are accurate, then it would be impossible for 305 to be 23 nautical miles south of BTG beacon at 8:18 unless it very drastically increased its airspeed. So, if the 8:18 notation is correct, then the times of the FBI plot points are wrong. If the times of FBI plot points are correct, then the 8:18 notation is wrong. It is impossible for both of them to be correct. So, which is it?

The WFP theory is irrelevant in light of these facts.

Now, having the 8:18 notation be correct would be great for me because it would fit my theory of a jump near the Columbia, but I want any evidence I use to be scrutinized before I tout it. I am asking about it not to pick a fight with you, but to do my due diligence in researching the case.

Chaucer, you can take the 8:18 PM time to the bank.  And if the airliner was on the Western Flight Path (basically on a straight line between the Malay and Canby Intersections), it would be almost directly overhead of Tena Bar at 8:11 PM, plus or minus a minute or so.

And if you think Cooper could have been a no-pull and landed just upstream (to the South) of Tena Bar and on solid ground on or between Caterpillar Island and the Northwest Lower River Road, then all that is necessary is for the spring flooding to reach his skeletal remains and move them down to where the money was found.  More money was probably scattered along the downstream movement but some got lodged and was covered by sand and found at a later date by an eight-year-old boy.  Everything else went on downstream.

It is as simple as that and doesn't need a miracle or human intervention.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4475 on: December 03, 2021, 12:31:52 AM »
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Chaucer, you can take the 8:18 PM time to the bank. 
I then to agree with you. So far, I have found no evidence to the contrary.

Quote
And if the airliner was on the Western Flight Path (basically on a straight line between the Malay and Canby Intersections), it would be almost directly overhead of Tena Bar at 8:11 PM, plus or minus a minute or so.
But this is where you lose me.

Quote
And if you think Cooper could have been a no-pull and landed just upstream (to the South) of Tena Bar and on solid ground
I think this is possible, but I’m open to the possibility he survived but lose the money ala McNally.

Quote
on or between Caterpillar Island and the Northwest Lower River Road,
Sorry, you lose me again. I just don’t think the WFP is valid in any way.

Quote
then all that is necessary is for the spring flooding to reach his skeletal remains and move them down to where the money was found.  More money was probably scattered along the downstream movement but some got lodged and was covered by sand and found at a later date by an eight-year-old boy.  Everything else went on downstream.

It is as simple as that and doesn't need a miracle or human intervention.
I agree with this.

Now, humor me for a minute. If the 8:18 notation is correct, AND the FBI flight path is correct, then that would put 305 in the immediate vicinity of the Columbia at the time of the reported oscillations/pressure bump, would it not?

Assuming the FBI flight path is accurate, wouldn’t the 8:18 Harrison note also support my notion of a landing along the Columbia between the bridges?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 12:33:51 AM by Chaucer »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4476 on: December 03, 2021, 11:49:34 AM »
While studying for my FAA 107 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I was musing how it won't be too long until a drone will be able to travel the entire flight path on a single charge, right at tree level, taking video.

Would have been nice to have the technology back in the day. Better than a SR71.

This bad boy claims 55 min flight time
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Not clear what speed the max flight time is at, but max speed is 82.8 km/h (51 mph)
so, a ways to go, but eventually.

it has a load capacity of 2.7kg..if you stripped it down with a light camera, you might be able to jury-rig a heavier battery for more range right now.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 12:07:23 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4477 on: December 09, 2021, 05:04:31 PM »
Snow I saw a cool patent for extending e drone range. Equip them with inductive charging clamps as landing gear “claws”. They descend onto AC power lines and clamp on.  Then they power down and hang on like bats upside down as they recharge their batteries. Would require some clever engineering but certainly doable.

So are you really studying for an FAA commercial drone license? I see you more as an outlaw type. No registration. No license. And an ADS-B transceiver that takes fake position info from your data feed.

377
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4478 on: December 10, 2021, 12:34:54 PM »
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Snow I saw a cool patent for extending e drone range. Equip them with inductive charging clamps as landing gear “claws”. They descend onto AC power lines and clamp on.  Then they power down and hang on like bats upside down as they recharge their batteries. Would require some clever engineering but certainly doable.

So are you really studying for an FAA commercial drone license? I see you more as an outlaw type. No registration. No license. And an ADS-B transceiver that takes fake position info from your data feed.

377

damn. CIA figured out they need to focus on China.
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How about those "loitering" SAMs from Iran (358's)
"Though a maximum speed or altitude has not been officially released it is thought that the missile is capable of cruising at around 500 KPH (c.300MPH) at an altitude of between 8000-12000 metres (c.26,000ft-39,000ft)."

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Offline jayslick141

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4479 on: January 30, 2022, 12:21:38 PM »
Even if this has already been answered I am respectfully asking someone to answer my questions about the flight path. It is indicated that it was tracked and beacon signals were transmitted every minute or whatever the timeframe was. My question is as follows.

If for example flight 305 transmitted a beacon signal at point #1 how far could the plane get if it veered to the west or east and then veer back by the time point 2 beacon signal was transmitted?

I am not saying this actually happened but I want to know how many miles east or west could the plane veer and then veer back by the time the next beacon signal was transmitted?

 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4480 on: January 30, 2022, 02:42:44 PM »
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Even if this has already been answered I am respectfully asking someone to answer my questions about the flight path. It is indicated that it was tracked and beacon signals were transmitted every minute or whatever the timeframe was. My question is as follows.

If for example flight 305 transmitted a beacon signal at point #1 how far could the plane get if it veered to the west or east and then veer back by the time point 2 beacon signal was transmitted?

I am not saying this actually happened but I want to know how many miles east or west could the plane veer and then veer back by the time the next beacon signal was transmitted?

Cooperland is not functioning right now - hasnt for some time. No answers possible!

You want light at 2718? Go fix it yourself. Same for medical care . . . . . 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 02:50:52 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4481 on: January 30, 2022, 04:28:10 PM »
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Even if this has already been answered I am respectfully asking someone to answer my questions about the flight path. It is indicated that it was tracked and beacon signals were transmitted every minute or whatever the timeframe was. My question is as follows.

If for example flight 305 transmitted a beacon signal at point #1 how far could the plane get if it veered to the west or east and then veer back by the time point 2 beacon signal was transmitted?

I am not saying this actually happened but I want to know how many miles east or west could the plane veer and then veer back by the time the next beacon signal was transmitted?

All airliners and most general aviation aircraft (including my own) were equipped with transponders in the early 1970s.  Do some Goggling if you want to see all the details of how that works.  But basically, the radar's antenna rotated about six times per minute (or every 10 seconds) and when the radar painted an aircraft its transponder was interrogated and a blip for the aircraft showed up on the radar operator's screen.

In most of the flight from Seattle to the Portland area, the airliner's tail was pointed in the general direction of the radar site at McChord AFB just south of Seattle.  The airliner was flying at about three nautical miles per minute in the Portland area and its transponder would be interrogated about every 10 seconds or each half of a nautical mile (roughly 3000 feet) along its flight path.

Any deviation in the flight path would be noted within 10 seconds and would be less than 3000 feet.   
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 04:29:44 PM by Robert99 »