Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 755685 times)

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4095 on: March 14, 2021, 06:15:05 PM »
Hearing first hand from Bill will be a very good thing. however, we see error's that are either from him or statements made shortly after the hijacking. the right questions need to be asked.

The crew appeared to help Paul with the map he made. documents state that "the crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for the suspected departure of the hijacker to be over Merwin lake, near woodland, Washington"

Ask if he can recall how close to the Battleground VOR 305 was and did they fly VOR to VOR and can he recall how far off centerline from V23 was deviated..

They also made a statement of using the autopilot during most of the flight through Washington. most of the path is relatively straight flight.

Statements of the past need to be brought into the conversation along with asking if the flight path could be over the location the money was found in 1980 vs any maps made shortly after the fact showing different. also, whether they were aware of there position vs the ground and did Anderson plot anything for record. 

Try to determine if the oscillation and pressure bump was immediate or minutes apart.

The time of the possible jump has been well established through the transcripts and his interview. the location or coords seems to be the error..

50 years is a long time and it could be rather easy to "guide" him into things. lots of things need to be put on the table for review moving forward in a positive direction..
 
The following users thanked this post: Robert99

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4096 on: March 14, 2021, 06:59:11 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The time of the possible jump has been well established through the transcripts and his interview. the location or coords seems to be the error...
The timing of the oscillations is fairly well established, but the time of the jump which would equate to the pressure bump is unknown. It’s not in the transcripts or the 302s. All we know is that it occurred after 8:12. Other than that, all we have are Rat’s own statement on the matter which ranges from 5 to 15 minutes after 8:05.

If he could pin down a better jump time, it would be a game changer.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 06:59:34 PM by Chaucer »
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4097 on: March 14, 2021, 07:11:16 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The time of the possible jump has been well established through the transcripts and his interview. the location or coords seems to be the error...
The timing of the oscillations is fairly well established, but the time of the jump which would equate to the pressure bump is unknown. It’s not in the transcripts or the 302s. All we know is that it occurred after 8:12. Other than that, all we have are Rat’s own statement on the matter which ranges from 5 to 15 minutes after 8:05.

If he could pin down a better jump time, it would be a game changer.

Rataczak was quite adamant that Cooper jumped at 8:13pm when we spoke on the phone in 2009.
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4098 on: March 14, 2021, 07:18:06 PM »
Rat has been consistent about notifying Minneapolis at the moment of the pressure bump--or "diving board" using his words.

The 5-10 minute reference is merely Rat retelling the story to agents. All he's saying is that he contacted Minneapolis at the moment of the jump which was 5-10 minutes after the last DBC convo. The exact time is recorded with Minneapolis nonetheless.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4099 on: March 14, 2021, 07:24:38 PM »
Bill describes the jump in the HBO documentary. they appear to go by the pressure bump vs the oscillation. that's why I'm wondering if there is or was a time gap. they have explained it being one after the other. the transcripts states the crew claiming the time of where he left the plane. nothing is said after that transmission. he also explains it was mentioned about the time but not the location for "pinpointing" the spot.

'crew reported oscillations of the cabin rate climb indicator. this is probably due to the hijackers weight on the stairs. stairs extending further, result affect on cabin pressure. may be best estimate of when he exited the airplane."

This could be take two ways. Cooper getting on the stairs and lowering them or getting to the bottom and jumping within moments of getting on the stairs. it affected the cabin rate gauge twice. the noise increased as he went down and then subsided..all the actions could of taken place in less than a minute and not 5-10 minutes apart. this term could be taken out of context. this is what needs to be confirmed.
 

Offline Chaucer

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Thanked: 243 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4100 on: March 14, 2021, 07:27:39 PM »
The point is that we do not have the exact time he jumped.
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4101 on: March 14, 2021, 07:32:18 PM »
They have the approx. time but the location is the key factor. the transcripts can mark the time but not the location unless they state where the plane was or the crew does the same. this was the critical error from the start. nobody appears to have thought about this critical point during the time in question..they let it slip right through there fingers..
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4102 on: March 14, 2021, 07:33:28 PM »
The oscillations refer to Cooper walking down the stairs. Bill told me they could tell when this was happening and that the further down the stairs DBC got the more pronounced the disturbance got. Then there was the "diving board" when DBC jumped and Bill radioed Minneapolis. This exact time is recorded somewhere. Given that Bill has a lot of papers related to or from Soderlind, the 8:13 time may be precisely the time. Moreover, it seems to be the time (thereabouts) that the FBI used.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4103 on: March 14, 2021, 07:34:30 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The point is that we do not have the exact time he jumped.

Again, Rataczak told me repeatedly that Cooper jumped at 8:13pm, when we spoke in 2009.
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4104 on: March 14, 2021, 07:36:38 PM »
I'm perfectly comfortable with the 8:13 jump time. BTW, Bill is sharp. He isn't some old guy digging into some hazy past.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4105 on: March 14, 2021, 07:46:09 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm perfectly comfortable with the 8:13 jump time. BTW, Bill is sharp. He isn't some old guy digging into some hazy past.

I don't think anyone is accusing Bill of anything. he has admitted memory issues just as the rest has. we have conflicting stories between two guys sitting next to each other. statements made in previous years not adding up to what is said in the 80. 90's etc.

Hopefully, Bill can clear up a lot of the misinformation. I don't see anything bad coming of this?
 

Offline EU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1759
  • Thanked: 322 times
    • ERIC ULIS: From the History Channel
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4106 on: March 14, 2021, 07:47:39 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm perfectly comfortable with the 8:13 jump time. BTW, Bill is sharp. He isn't some old guy digging into some hazy past.

I don't think anyone is accusing Bill of anything. he has admitted memory issues just as the rest has. we have conflicting stories between two guys sitting next to each other. statements made in previous years not adding up to what is said in the 80. 90's etc.

Hopefully, Bill can clear up a lot of the misinformation. I don't see anything bad coming of this?

What exactly are you talking about? What conflicting stories?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 608
  • Thanked: 140 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4107 on: March 14, 2021, 07:49:00 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm perfectly comfortable with the 8:13 jump time. BTW, Bill is sharp. He isn't some old guy digging into some hazy past.

I don't think anyone is accusing Bill of anything. he has admitted memory issues just as the rest has. we have conflicting stories between two guys sitting next to each other. statements made in previous years not adding up to what is said in the 80. 90's etc.

Hopefully, Bill can clear up a lot of the misinformation. I don't see anything bad coming of this?

Everyone has memory issues as they get older. I wouldn't even call them "issues" in most cases, things just didn't happen quite the way we remember them. Unless, of course, you're one of those Christiansen witnesses, in which case your memory is impeccable.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4108 on: March 14, 2021, 07:49:19 PM »
East and west for one between the pilot and copilot. one says west over Woodland while the other says east of V23..
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4109 on: March 14, 2021, 07:51:43 PM »
Quote
Everyone has memory issues as they get older. I wouldn't even call them "issues" in most cases, things just didn't happen quite the way we remember them. Unless, of course, you're one of those Christiansen witnesses, in which case your memory is impeccable.

Very true, experts say you don't really know your own history or view it different years later that becomes skewed. that's why you say "I always thought it was this or that" finding out years later you were wrong..I don't think that's the case here though..