Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 282402 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4035 on: March 04, 2021, 11:49:42 AM »
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So, the wind data is really meaningless and the drift calculations are no good.

The FBI files have wind from the S at 8 PM at Toledo, 15 miles from the placard find location.

Flyjack, are these ground winds? winds aloft is what is required when dealing with things in the air. ground winds are obviously about the ground conditions. winds aloft are different in several ways. direction and speeds can differ from the ground. I'm not sure how high ground winds are calculated but a guess would be low altitude.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4036 on: March 04, 2021, 12:00:03 PM »
I cannot believe we're still debating winds. The radiosonde data for that night was abundantly clear.

Also, Toledo is at an elevation of 121'. The placard find location is at an elevation of around 1300'.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4037 on: March 04, 2021, 12:04:01 PM »
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The real take away is that Ulis and Robert99 have misrepresented and leveraged this irrelevant wind data to advance a narrative...

It is dishonest.

When you see a comment like above. it will give cause to ask questions...
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 12:07:36 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4038 on: March 04, 2021, 12:14:29 PM »
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The real take away is that Ulis and Robert99 have misrepresented and leveraged this irrelevant wind data to advance a narrative...

It is dishonest.

When you see a comment like above. it will have cause to ask questions...

I really don't understand the need for some to troll. It must be a jealousy thing. Frankly I could care less what TrollJack has to say. What has he contributed to the case other then theories such as:

1) Cooper really wanted to fly to Mexico but changed his mind and decided to jump near Vancouver.

2) The money came from a dump on the Columbia River.

3) Tina was hiding cash in her coat pocket that was visible in footage from Reno.

4) There were five parachutes delivered to the airport.

5) Cooper didn't want the jet to depart with the airstairs down even though it says so.

6) Eric stole his investigative research on the tie.

7) DB Cooper was 5' 8"

8) And, of course, the wind was actually coming from the south or southeast that night.

All very compelling theories that the world is itching to learn more about.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 12:27:36 PM by EU »
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4039 on: March 04, 2021, 04:36:55 PM »
Someone, probably FJ, has posted on DropZone that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego which is apparently a small protuberance in the Williamette River on the south side of Portland.  Lake Oswego is also the name of the subdivision adjacent to this lake with the subdivision known as West Linn being about five miles further south.

In describing his helicopter ride, Himmelsbach states in his book (p. 42) that they took off from PIA and flew to the southwest side of Portland.  He said that he recognized the West Linn subdivision and that he lived there.

At 8:18 PM, the airliner reported that it was 23 DME miles south of what is now named the Battleground VORTAC.  This puts it directly over the West Linn area.  And that is roughly 20 miles from Tina Bar.  Cooper had long departed the aircraft by the time the aircraft was over West Linn.  The claim of jumping near Lake Oswego can be ignored.
 

Online georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4040 on: March 04, 2021, 11:59:59 PM »
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Someone, probably FJ, has posted on DropZone that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego which is apparently a small protuberance in the Williamette River on the south side of Portland.  Lake Oswego is also the name of the subdivision adjacent to this lake with the subdivision known as West Linn being about five miles further south.

In describing his helicopter ride, Himmelsbach states in his book (p. 42) that they took off from PIA and flew to the southwest side of Portland.  He said that he recognized the West Linn subdivision and that he lived there.

At 8:18 PM, the airliner reported that it was 23 DME miles south of what is now named the Battleground VORTAC.  This puts it directly over the West Linn area.  And that is roughly 20 miles from Tina Bar.  Cooper had long departed the aircraft by the time the aircraft was over West Linn.  The claim of jumping near Lake Oswego can be ignored.

No no no. I have followed FJ daily for years. FJ has never posted that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego.

In fact FJ posted tonight at DZ that your claim is untrue.

Let's leave it at that. Your claim is false. Go see FJ's post at DZ tonight .... 
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4041 on: March 05, 2021, 01:40:17 AM »
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Someone, probably FJ, has posted on DropZone that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego which is apparently a small protuberance in the Williamette River on the south side of Portland.  Lake Oswego is also the name of the subdivision adjacent to this lake with the subdivision known as West Linn being about five miles further south.

In describing his helicopter ride, Himmelsbach states in his book (p. 42) that they took off from PIA and flew to the southwest side of Portland.  He said that he recognized the West Linn subdivision and that he lived there.

At 8:18 PM, the airliner reported that it was 23 DME miles south of what is now named the Battleground VORTAC.  This puts it directly over the West Linn area.  And that is roughly 20 miles from Tina Bar.  Cooper had long departed the aircraft by the time the aircraft was over West Linn.  The claim of jumping near Lake Oswego can be ignored.

No no no. I have followed FJ daily for years. FJ has never posted that Cooper jumped near Lake Oswego.

In fact FJ posted tonight at DZ that your claim is untrue.

Let's leave it at that. Your claim is false. Go see FJ's post at DZ tonight ....

Georger, you need to head back over to DZ to see what FJ has just posted about some of your claims. :))
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4042 on: March 05, 2021, 09:58:24 AM »
I don't recall FJ making any claims the flight path was west or near Lake Oswego. I could see one of his theories placing the money there but not by parachute...

Also, FJ, I didn't claim you changed anything with the wind data from Toledo. I simply pointed out that wind direction and speeds differ in the air vs the ground. the best known directions were done with balloons. I agree it's becoming irrelevant if the placard wasn't on the plane. several things still need to be verified..

1) the emergency function was also on the exterior control center. a document does support this but we haven't seen the system.
2) The placard was used in both area's since the function was the same in two different area's of the plane.

Boeing gave the suggestion of the pressure change causing the placard to come off in the stairwell. one would tend to believe they would tell them one was also outside of the stairwell for the other control system/box/center and could of come off of any 727 with this option. the biggest problem was the fact of NWO failing to say whether 305 had the option or not. IMO, it's not busted just yet. at least to satisfy everyone beyond a shadow of doubt..

I agree the photo from the video of the inside of the stairs doesn't show the function. it's poor quality and hopefully a better quality video/photo will surface with a vivid view of the area.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 10:05:17 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4043 on: March 05, 2021, 12:22:47 PM »
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Dated 12/6/78

This decal is located on the outside of the aircraft near the rear door.

A facsimile of copy of the Boeing aircraft standard marker number BAC27DPA-152 was provided. also provided by (redacted) were two blueprints for the location of this decal on the aircraft. each blueprint is marked in black ink noting where the decal is located.



I've read this dozens of times and have been confused as to why they would have two sets of blueprints. seeing the document explaining the functions of the stairs tells of two different area's with the same emergency function. one being inside the stairwell next to the main control door and outside under the fuselage "near the rear door" I also have a document stating the system is interconnected..

You don't need two sets of print to show one location. you need two sets showing another location. the problem is they don't specify this. it's hard to confirm this since drawings are very large and detailed. the sets I use break down different parts of the building. I look at the four pages of each side of the building. then you have a numbering and letter system that can be found that directs you to a page that details what you are trying to see. it still could of been done with one set showing the placard right beside the main control box settling any question as to where it is placed. they sent two sets marking where the placard was placed.

I can tell the controls are on the starboard side of 305. a photo of the stairs shows a placard that is seen on several other 727's that state's the emergency controls are on the opposite side. we know they are on that side. sadly, not one single photo can be found of this placard inside or outside of any aircraft viewed by either video or stills. very frustrating.

The reason for having a placard stating to look on the other side suggests as Eric claimed that the controls could of been on the port side at one point. a placard was then put in place on latter models to direct the ground to the location. it wouldn't be there for no reason.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 12:32:08 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4044 on: March 05, 2021, 12:32:02 PM »
Shutter, are you saying that you see an exterior placard that references the emergency airstairs release being on the other side of the jet?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4045 on: March 05, 2021, 12:33:15 PM »
It's a placard directing you to look on the other side of the aircraft for the exterior controls...
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4046 on: March 05, 2021, 12:33:39 PM »
Also, when the doc says the placard is outside the jet near the rear door, what they mean is outside the bulkhead door, not the airstairs door.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4047 on: March 05, 2021, 12:34:32 PM »
It's possible. the exterior controls are near the rear door as well...
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4048 on: March 05, 2021, 12:34:52 PM »
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It's a placard directing you to look on the other side of the aircraft for the exterior controls...

So it references the regular exterior airstairs release? It does not refer to the "break wire" release?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4049 on: March 05, 2021, 12:35:31 PM »
This placard can be seen on 305..