Thanks, georger. That’s high praise coming from you.

I think you have to begin with the Tena Bar find and work backwards. How did it end up there? It was either intentionally placed there or ended up there by chance. If it was intentionally placed there, then you have to explain how and why Cooper jumped where most think he did and then travel all the way to Tena Bar to bury the money. And for what purpose? To “throw off the feds”? He’d already gotten away with it. Why provide the feds more evidence? And if you did want to plant evidence to throw off the feds, then why use a nice portion of the money you just risked your life to acquire? You simply can’t square a jump spot along the FBI flight path and the money ending up on Tena Bar without some very low probability circumstances taking place.

Yes, you could move the flight path dozens of miles west, but isn’t easier and more likely to just assume that Cooper jumped three or four minutes later than is guessed?

If you start with Tena Bar and work back, keeping your eye on all the known evidence about the money, then I think it becomes clear that the most likely scenario is that Cooper jumped a little farther south than believed and splashed down in the Columbia, losing the money and probably his life in the process. Outside of that, you become mired in unlikely and, in some cases, outlandish theories to reconcile an Ariel/Hockinson drop zone and the Tena Bar money find.

I’m certainly open to hearing evidence that contradicts my theory.

At DZ we broke this into pieces considering each an independent question with no known causal connection between the two: (a) flight path bail time/place, (b) TBar money on its own. Kaye was hired, so to speak, to explore the money. Kaye ended up exploring other forensic issues also. Kaye came to the conclusion the money had been buried on Tina Bar in 1971 - but he never explained why he concluded that. I still want to know why he thinks that.

Sluggo and others worked the flight path/bail point issue. After talking to many people Sluggo decided the time Rataczak had actually called in the oscillations/we think he has jumped 'call', the actual call was after 8:10pm. Perhaps even as late as 8:13. A subsequent interview of Anderson not only confirmed Sluggo's suspicions but expanded it further! Anderson added the fact there had been actual discussion between the pilots and engineer about whether the crew should call in and report what was happening! According to Anderson, Rataczak settled the matter by simply calling in to the company and reporting what had happened. Carr reports Rataczak eventually said something like: 'the oscillations and bump occurred five to ten minutes after our last contact with Cooper at 8:05, and we could see the lights of Portland coming up...'. Sluggo decided there was enough latitude in when and where these events had happened, that Cooper probably had bailed later than believed somewhere near Orchards ... and that is where the issue was left at Dropzone (I dont remember the year without looking it up).

Tosaw also interviewed Rataczak and came to a conclusion similar to Sluggo's, but Tosaw stretched it all the way to the Columbia itself.

Col. Dawson at McChord offered a scenario similar to Tosaw's except that Dawson places Cooper's landing closer to Hayden Island.

If it can be shown that Cooper landed somewhere in the Columbia Basin then some water involved conveyance of the money to Tena Bar, is logical. But I prefer to keep the two issues separated until some data actually links them - perhaps via the dredging in 1974. I still want to know why Tom thinks the money was on Tina Bar in 1971! Maybe Tom knows something or thinks he knows something that everyone else is missing ?

Thanks.
 

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Thanks, georger. That’s high praise coming from you.

I think you have to begin with the Tena Bar find and work backwards. How did it end up there? It was either intentionally placed there or ended up there by chance. If it was intentionally placed there, then you have to explain how and why Cooper jumped where most think he did and then travel all the way to Tena Bar to bury the money. And for what purpose? To “throw off the feds”? He’d already gotten away with it. Why provide the feds more evidence? And if you did want to plant evidence to throw off the feds, then why use a nice portion of the money you just risked your life to acquire? You simply can’t square a jump spot along the FBI flight path and the money ending up on Tena Bar without some very low probability circumstances taking place.

Yes, you could move the flight path dozens of miles west, but isn’t easier and more likely to just assume that Cooper jumped three or four minutes later than is guessed?

If you start with Tena Bar and work back, keeping your eye on all the known evidence about the money, then I think it becomes clear that the most likely scenario is that Cooper jumped a little farther south than believed and splashed down in the Columbia, losing the money and probably his life in the process. Outside of that, you become mired in unlikely and, in some cases, outlandish theories to reconcile an Ariel/Hockinson drop zone and the Tena Bar money find.

I’m certainly open to hearing evidence that contradicts my theory.

Chaucer, there is plenty of evidence to contradict your theory both on this site and DropZone.  In a post just above, Bruce Smith writes that Captain Scott said (probably to his daughter) that the airliner bypassed Portland on the west side.  If the airliner flew essentially direct from the Malay Intersection to the Canby Intersection, it would pass almost directly overhead of Tina Bar.  In fact, it would have flown straight down the Columbia River for about 10 miles since the river runs from the south to the north at Tina Bar.

The Washugal wash down theory has been completely disproven and the location of the placard that separated from the airliner strongly supports what is currently referred to as the Western Flight Path.

Scott's daughter?  We have been over that EU canard before!

Scott's wife was interviewed:  "Bill was convinced Cooper died in the leap", said Frances Scott. "He felt he jumped into Lake Merwin (Cowlitz County) and got tangled up in dead trees and died," she said. 

So, Scott's daughter and Scott's wife, and Scott .... all need to consult and agree on something! 

You're in it now, Chaucer! Welcome.

BTW, what do you teach? English Lit?

G, Captain Scott claimed the Woodland, WA/west of Portland flight path to a number of people. Most famously he talked about it at Himmelsbach's retirement party in 1980, as reported by What's His Name for the Seattle Times, I believe. Also included in Calame and Rhodes' book. Obviously, he also told Catherine, who told us all at the 2019 CooperCon. She was an absolute joy - a wonderful person to spend time with - teaching polo to Midshipmen at the US Naval Academy? Whew...

Also, I think the location of the placard supports the central flight path rather than a western one. Can you explain how its location supports a western one?

Also, you said that lots of evidence contradicts my theory, but you only mentioned two, one of which isn’t really evidence. Can you provide more please?

Let's remember my earlier post referenced the remarks from Rataczak who stated they could see the glow of Portland. I believe Rataczak may have also been credited earlier with saying they--meaning 305--weren't over Portland but they could see the glow of Portland ahead--or words to that effect.

As noted in my earlier post, if this is accurate then the jet could not have been over the Columbia River--utilizing the FBI Flight Path--because that would put the jet very near PDX--which is in the middle of the metro area--when DBC jumped.

Also, the placard find absolutely proves the FBI Flight Path is incorrect at that point because of the wind drift analysis which has been discussed at length here in the past. The placard drifted several miles to the northeast after being separated from the airliner at 10K feet.

Now, Captain Scott's testimony regarding the flight path is a little more muddled. Indeed, he did state that he believed they flew over the Woodland area. However, he also stated that he believed that DBC probably died in Lake Merwin.

The problem here is that Scott's remarks are contradictory. However, unless he is very familiar with the region, it's a contradiction that is easy to make without understanding why. Also, consider that Scott's "Lake Merwin" comments were made several years after the money was found on Tena Bar. Needless to say, it is physically impossible for the money to have traveled by natural means from Lake Merwin or the Lewis River upstream eight miles to Tena Bar. Therefore, DBC getting killed in Lake Merwin on 11/24/71 is impossible.

My point concerning Scott is that his recollections about where the jet flew--i.e., over Woodland--are of much greater value than his theories about where, when and how DBC died.

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Scott's daughter?  We have been over that EU canard before!

Scott's wife was interviewed:  "Bill was convinced Cooper died in the leap", said Frances Scott. "He felt he jumped into Lake Merwin (Cowlitz County) and got tangled up in dead trees and died," she said. 

So, Scott's daughter and Scott's wife, and Scott .... all need to consult and agree on something! 

Family confusion is quite a phenomenon, eh, G. the Scott imbroglio reminds me of the Ingram Mishagasum on Tina Bar.

Yup, Capt. Billy said a lot of strange things about DBC. I wonder why. I strongly suspect that he was the kind of guy who would say things to make people think he agreed with them. A people pleaser, if you will. He strikes me as a man committed to not making waves, and as a company man, he certainly didn't want his airlines to be embroiled in on-going disputes. Bad for ticket sales, etc...

Remember, he didn't handle unexpected drama very well. He almost lost control of the aircraft when he learned his plane was being hijacked, as Rataczak relayed to me. R had to help Scotty pull it together.

But you missed the real story! R99 now admits there was light coming from Vancouver/Portland. Clouds and black holes and all. It has taken years. GO REPORT IT!
It;s a miracle.   

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Scott's daughter?  We have been over that EU canard before!

Scott's wife was interviewed:  "Bill was convinced Cooper died in the leap", said Frances Scott. "He felt he jumped into Lake Merwin (Cowlitz County) and got tangled up in dead trees and died," she said. 

So, Scott's daughter and Scott's wife, and Scott .... all need to consult and agree on something! 

Family confusion is quite a phenomenon, eh, G. the Scott imbroglio reminds me of the Ingram Mishagasum on Tina Bar.

Yup, Capt. Billy said a lot of strange things about DBC. I wonder why. I strongly suspect that he was the kind of guy who would say things to make people think he agreed with them. A people pleaser, if you will. He strikes me as a man committed to not making waves, and as a company man, he certainly didn't want his airlines to be embroiled in on-going disputes. Bad for ticket sales, etc...

Remember, he didn't handle unexpected drama very well. He almost lost control of the aircraft when he learned his plane was being hijacked, as Rataczak relayed to me. R had to help Scotty pull it together.

But you missed the real story! R99 now admits there was light coming from Vancouver/Portland. Clouds and black holes and all. It has taken years. GO REPORT IT!
It;s a miracle.

Georger's comment above is an outright lie!  I have always stated that the flight crew could see the "glow" of the lights from the Vancouver/Portland area but that they could not see the actual lights.  A recent post here by Kermit states that Rataczak made the same statement to him.

EU,

We do know that the placard was found southeast of Toutle and east of Headquarters. This is basically along the presumed FBI flight path. I will concede that the placard indicates a flight path that is two or three miles west from the exact center of V 23, but it is certainly within the route’s 8 mile width. It’s not far enough west to place it over Tena Bar several minutes later.

More to the point, to have the FBI flight path be off to the west by 10 to 15 miles would require us to ignore that this was the height of the Cold War, and that the Western Air Defense Sector based at McChord (other than Alaska) was THE eyes and ears of the American military and was on constant look out for unusual air traffic - Soviet nuke bombers first among them. They had the most sophisticated radar in the world at the time. Once those F-106s took pursuit, the military knew EXACTLY where they were and the feds knew EXACTLY where that plane was from the moment it took off from Seattle to the moment it touched down in Reno. Normal planes did just fly around willy nilly with a “general idea” of where they were, and they weren’t just guessing where this special plane was either. The FBI files indicate clearly that they used this military radar data to construct the flight path. The FBI files also list specific towns where the plane pinged radar, and this is exactly along the presumed flight path. Furthermore, the DMEs coincide with the presumed flight path.

The technical and physical data along with historical knowledge and common sense overwhelmly support the FBIs flight path regardless of any anecdotal data given after the fact.

That said, a western flight path is the second most logical conclusion to draw based on the Tena Bar money find. It is far more logical than a DZ to the east and then the money magically appearing in the sand at the river’s edge 15 miles west.

Chaucer,

How about amplifying on your claims in the second paragraph above.  There are posters on this site who were involved in national defense activities in the 1971 time frame, and that includes me, who are mystified by your remarks.

Your third paragraph is simply not correct.