Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 767202 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1530 on: March 29, 2019, 12:21:47 AM »
They are still in the limits of the airway...
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1531 on: March 29, 2019, 12:22:55 AM »
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They are still in the limits of the airway...

Yes but right at the east edge 1-2 miles? Thats what the op said in the 302? 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1532 on: March 29, 2019, 12:26:30 AM »
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They are still in the limits of the airway...

Yes but right at the east edge 1-2 miles? Thats what the op said in the 302?

He's talking about the jump time which would be around 8:11 and shows the flight east of V23 but not by much as it merges back on centerline at 8:12
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1533 on: March 29, 2019, 12:29:17 AM »
The 8:15 location appears to be the furthest from the airway at around 4 miles east of the line.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1534 on: March 29, 2019, 12:30:39 AM »
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They are still in the limits of the airway...

Yes but right at the east edge 1-2 miles? Thats what the op said in the 302?

He's talking about the jump time which would be around 8:11 and shows the flight east of V23 but not by much as it merges back on centerline at 8:12

Yes - agree - I dont quite see the logic of the guy in the 302. If 305 is east of the CL near or just above PDX that does not guarantee that it was in the EAST side of V23 the whole way down, or when C bailed. I dont see the logic or the connection ?? Explain.. 
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 12:31:46 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1535 on: March 29, 2019, 12:34:00 AM »
The 8:12 location is on the centerline and from that point on it stays east of the centerline...
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1536 on: March 29, 2019, 12:36:57 AM »
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The 8:12 location is on the centerline and from that point on it stays east of the centerline...
Let me look at a couple of larger scale maps that show the whole fp with V23 deviations ... 
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1537 on: March 29, 2019, 12:37:33 AM »
.I think his point was if they went by the center of V23 for a east or west position they would be off since the plane was east of the center..."one to two miles"
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 12:44:18 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1538 on: March 29, 2019, 03:25:07 AM »
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.I think his point was if they went by the center of V23 for a east or west position they would be off since the plane was east of the center..."one to two miles"

found files .  will post tomorrow
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1539 on: March 29, 2019, 08:21:42 AM »
What direction did 305 take off from Seattle?  Cooper could have gotten hold of a sectional chart easily, and known where V-23 or one of the other Victor Airways were, but did he do anything that would indicate he knew what the direction would be the first 10-15 miles or so?  Taking off heading south is a big difference than taking off going east and then turning south.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1540 on: March 29, 2019, 11:34:53 AM »
The jet took off south from Seattle--I believe 16 R.

I cleaned up some of my numbers and adjusted them online for my 8:12 Arc Theory which shows that the jet arrives at a point 8 miles southwest of Amboy at 8:12 PM which is the furthest east the jet could have been given the constraint I placed on the flight path because of the placard find. My western-most flight path for the jet still puts it over St. Helens, OR.

I'm working on a couple of images to add to the page as well.

My overall point is to illustrate that Cooper could not have landed upstream from Tena Bar unless the FBI is way off on their times. Which means, if they're way off on their times why can't they be off on the flight path?

Again, my understanding is that the Air Force handed the FBI the flight path. Furthermore, that it was crafted based upon...we don't know...the document says "radar." That's it. I would be very interested to analyse the precise data and methodology that the Air Force used to construct the flight path because something doesn't add up.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1541 on: March 29, 2019, 11:56:25 AM »
Putting speculation in the air Force is not a good idea. You are trying to go against hard evidence then use some of it?

The placard could of spun almost straight down or turned directions. You don't know what it did just as anyone else.

Are we to assume our country was in grave danger with the air Force not able to use two different radar systems?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1542 on: March 29, 2019, 12:22:13 PM »
I still find it odd that georger Harrison had faith in the air Force tracking as well as the commercial controllers. Data from the flight recorder, the sage radar to help pinpoint a location. Then you also have the pilots.

As I have mentioned. It's like video evidence. Lots of it from different sources. Nobody knows how the money got there so using it as fact shouldn't apply. It's very troubling but taking some of the evidence you reject is worse. You can't have it both ways.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1543 on: March 29, 2019, 01:11:25 PM »
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I still find it odd that georger Harrison had faith in the air Force tracking as well as the commercial controllers. Data from the flight recorder, the sage radar to help pinpoint a location. Then you also have the pilots.

As I have mentioned. It's like video evidence. Lots of it from different sources. Nobody knows how the money got there so using it as fact shouldn't apply. It's very troubling but taking some of the evidence you reject is worse. You can't have it both ways.

I have never seen anything that actually describes what went into deriving the flight path other than "radar." Perhaps someone can show me something else.

Also, we don't know how it was done. Was it a series of calculations? Was it a recorded blip overlaying a map? Was it something else entirely? I don't know. Perhaps someone can explain precisely how the flight path was crafted.

Normally I would defer and say, "Yes, the flight path is correct." However, the one thing I cannot overlook is the physical evidence. Specifically, where the placard was found and where the money was found. These things can't be f'd up by someone making a mistake. Either the items were found where reported or they were not. Moreover, they must adhere to the laws of physics. The money couldn't flow 10 miles upstream. The placard can't drop straight down if the entire atmosphere it is dropping through is moving to the northeast at 30 knots.

If you believe the FBI got it all correct then we have it that Cooper landed in the search area. Okay, then how did the money end up on Tena Bar? Why has absolutely nothing been found in the search area? Why would Cooper jump into utter darkness dressed in a suit?

Believe it or not, the FBI, the Air Force, the guy who put the flight path together at the Air Force, Dr. Leonard Palmer, the president of the United States, me, you, all of us are capable of making mistakes. This does not mean that everything the FBI assumed or calculated was wrong. Rather, it simply means they may have messed up in this one area. Indeed, perhaps the flight from Seattle to Reno is 85% accurate, but the 15% that is slightly askew is the part we're all debating here.

Proud American and US Air Force notwithstanding, at some point I have to say "I'm not convinced that someone didn't make a mistake somewhere" with the flight path because what I do know, doesn't add up.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 01:23:57 PM by EU »
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1544 on: March 29, 2019, 01:54:47 PM »
 When you don't have answers it doesn't mean to make things up. The money has no facts surrounding it's placement. The same for the placard . It's in the flight path range and you have no way of knowing how it got there. Floating stats won't work since it more than likely did not float or drift. Could of floated and it could of spiraled straight down.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 01:55:17 PM by Shutter »