Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 760067 times)

Offline dice

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1305 on: January 08, 2018, 11:02:46 PM »
Quote
had a grudge against
the State of Washington because he had been indicted for financial
fraud

To Titanium:
Aren't grudges more formed from a percieved wrong or injustice done to them, and not something they know full well that they did?  You say he was indicted for fraud, and Id think the guilt reflex would prevent the feeling of a grudge to develop...or not...just saying....

Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1306 on: January 08, 2018, 11:11:49 PM »
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Could have had a 30 mile long range walkie talkie to communicate to someone on the ground.  Maybe that is what was in the brown paper bag.

this poor bag get changed more than Mr. Potato head...boots, googles, long johns, radio's, direction finders...this list goes on..

has anyone ever thought he might of jumped out of the back (very easy) landed and took off? if you can find a reference of the name DB Cooper with James Bond, we might have something...the easiest way between two points is a straight line...most here seem to zig zag and turn left and right to get to point B...

Grinning on the bag. The bag, by House's description, is about the size of a square boot box (I measured) and was flattened on the top. I found a note in the FBI files to ask Tina about that bag, but she only mentions a small green paper one, which IMHO is a different bag from the one Mitchell and House describe. My first guess on the sack was boots because one skydiver mentioned online that Cooper's footwear was far from ideal particularly in the storm. But jumps have been made in all sorts, as Bruce mentioned. Long undies would be useless in a rainstorm. A scuba suit might be better, but you'd be better off with it under your clothes.

How likely would it be for a radio to survive the jump? I personally think this was a solo jack - or else the ransom would have been higher, for one thing - but in the interests of open-mindedness, I'm curious. I've never done a jump and have no idea how heavily you'd land. But with 20+ lbs of money and the briefcase plus the chutes on him, if what was in the big bag wasn't a clothing item, I hope what was in the smaller bag was D-rings.  :D
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1307 on: January 08, 2018, 11:15:09 PM »
the bag changes colors too  8) and size...Carr stated it wasn't big enough for boots while others claim the bag was big enough..

377 jumps with radios all the time...
 
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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1308 on: January 08, 2018, 11:22:52 PM »
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What's wrong with thinking he knew where he was from the fact that airliners fly Victor 23 when they fly south from Seattle to Mexico at 10,000 feet?

There are actually two airways for flying between the Seattle VORTAC and what is now the Battleground VORTAC.  Even if Cooper knew he was on one of those airways, he would not know where along that airway without additional information.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1309 on: January 08, 2018, 11:50:38 PM »
Quote
This is the portable model that is just like ones that are designed to be used on an airplane, so I think they would work inside the plane.

it's pretty simple...metal will block signals..that unit is 8" x 5" x 2" that's a lot of real estate in the briefcase not to be noticed..

the antenna's are on the outside of a plane for a reason....yes, it picks up air traffic control, but the problem will be picking up a signal inside with the antenna...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 11:50:54 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1310 on: January 09, 2018, 12:05:07 AM »
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Quote
had a grudge against
the State of Washington because he had been indicted for financial
fraud

To Titanium:
Aren't grudges more formed from a percieved wrong or injustice done to them, and not something they know full well that they did?  You say he was indicted for fraud, and Id think the guilt reflex would prevent the feeling of a grudge to develop...or not...just saying....
Also, I don't really see how the State of Washington was in any way the victim in this skyjacking. DBC never said the reason for the hijacking was the grudge, just that he had one that wasn't with NWO. Money is a good motive, but if he was also trying to flip the bird to the state, the hijacking does not accomplish that.
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1311 on: January 09, 2018, 01:06:47 AM »
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What's wrong with thinking he knew where he was from the fact that airliners fly Victor 23 when they fly south from Seattle to Mexico at 10,000 feet?

There are actually two airways for flying between the Seattle VORTAC and what is now the Battleground VORTAC.  Even if Cooper knew he was on one of those airways, he would not know where along that airway without additional information.

If he was airway savvy and current (with charts) he might have guessed a low elevation route going south would use V23 or the other Victor airway, time in five minutes intervals counted off in his mind, and he can estimate he must be somewhere between SEA and PDX and close to PDX in the 8:05 period. He may also have had a watch!  Now, if he has clocked off time in his head and now goes to the stairs and look around, he might have seen the skyglow from Portland-Vancouver coming up (as Ratzk said he saw), and now he jumps. He knows he's close to Portland. Moreover, his preparations prepared him to bail early and do exactly as described. His asking to slow and level the plane at 8:05 indicates to me he had some estimate of where he must be and was going to jump - the crew took that message from Cooper to indicate he was intending to jump.

If as R99 thinks he was close to Tena Bar then the same scenario applies, but west of V23 by several miles.

THANK YOU ALABAMA - GO TIDE! 
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:11:04 AM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1312 on: January 09, 2018, 01:17:35 AM »
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What if Cooper had one of these or an accomplice on the ground listening to the Air Traffic radio and was able to determine where the plane was when he jumped?  Maybe this explains why he was not concerned about the exact flight path.

The advertisement says you could listen to jet airliners and control towers.  Measures: 8" x 5" x x 2" and is portable.

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See attachment.

Could easily fit in suitcase and uses dry cell batteries like the ones in bomb.

In 1968 I bought a pocket sized tunable VHF aviation receiver at Radio Shack for under $30. Worked fine. Could hear airliners and ATC. Ran on a 9 VDC battery. Received VORs too but it didn’t decode the radial info. The VOR stations did announce their ID in a recorded voice. One I recall was “WOODSIDE VORTAC”.

I’ve used various portable radios and walkie talkies while under canopy. 100 miles is easy from high up with just a couple of watts. Read about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377





 
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georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1313 on: January 09, 2018, 01:25:45 AM »
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What if Cooper had one of these or an accomplice on the ground listening to the Air Traffic radio and was able to determine where the plane was when he jumped?  Maybe this explains why he was not concerned about the exact flight path.

The advertisement says you could listen to jet airliners and control towers.  Measures: 8" x 5" x x 2" and is portable.

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See attachment.

Could easily fit in suitcase and uses dry cell batteries like the ones in bomb.

In 1968 I bought a pocket sized tunable VHF aviation receiver at Radio Shack for under $30. Worked fine. Could hear airliners and ATC. Ran on a 9 VDC battery. Received VORs too but it didn’t decode the radial info. The VOR stations did announce their ID in a recorded voice. One I recall was “WOODSIDE VORTAC”.

I’ve used various portable radios and walkie talkies while under canopy. 100 miles is easy from high up with just a couple of watts. Read about it here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

who was listening? and never reported hearing anything? on the other hand some did listen to 305 and reported a little on that ... I mean more people reported hearing Amelia Earnhardt in the northwest than reported hearing DB Cooper!  :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 01:26:15 AM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1314 on: January 09, 2018, 02:51:28 PM »
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As I understand quantum theory, the worms are both alive and dead until observed. However, there is an interesting counter theory that says the observer drinking the Twequila might not be observant enough. Interesting dilemma, no?

Yes, remote viewing, when we develop the skills necessary to make it reliable, will be a tremendous asset.

My understanding of QM is completely different from yours. There is no known association between QM and Consciousness - Perception - Neurology. A scientist at Harvard, Barb Shipman, actually looked into this - her father is a great mathematician. Look up Shipman's work on Bee roaming (in order to find pollen) and read it.

After that read something about what Quantum Mechanics is and how it came into being, and why. Your dimestore version of QM and Uncertainty is just that, a dimestore novel! QM and Uncertainty is not a fact - just opposite is the case.

QM is not the father of Uncertainty. QM predicts extremely rigorous standards and certainty! QM is a mathematical strategy ( a tool) which explains or predicts how atomic and subatomic particles and forces will act (and interact). QM actually applies more certainty to the world, rather than less! QM actually tightens and restricts 'what can happen' vs 'what cannot happen' and the whole body of quantum theory is tantamount to a new set of Conservation Laws which are the most basic Laws in Physics!

What the Sun does in nucleo-synthesis, for example, is a dead-certain proposition. That certainty is precisely what has lead to the technological world we have today ... from LEDs to nuclear bombs and reactors to radiation therapy and CT scanning. QM theory is responsible for that.

When it comes to QM and Uncertainty vs the idea of Remote Perception, I think you are confusing QM with ordinary probabilistic Innumeracy and Chance which occurs in daily life also - as a random statistical experience in life! The two are not the same.  Any contribution of QM to the Cooper case will occur in a Lab vs trying to remote view or imagine what Cooper did or did not do. Its as simple (and certain) as that.

I predict you will ignore everything I am saying, and continue in the same habits you have always had as part of your life strategy. We all have life strategies of one kind or another. Different life strategies lead to different life outcomes!  ;)     



« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 03:01:05 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1315 on: January 09, 2018, 03:41:44 PM »
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As I understand quantum theory, the worms are both alive and dead until observed. However, there is an interesting counter theory that says the observer drinking the Twequila might not be observant enough. Interesting dilemma, no?

Yes, remote viewing, when we develop the skills necessary to make it reliable, will be a tremendous asset.

My understanding of QM is completely different from yours. There is no known association between QM and Consciousness - Perception - Neurology. A scientist at Harvard, Barb Shipman, actually looked into this - her father is a great mathematician. Look up Shipman's work on Bee roaming (in order to find pollen) and read it.

After that read something about what Quantum Mechanics is and how it came into being, and why. Your dimestore version of QM and Uncertainty is just that, a dimestore novel! QM and Uncertainty is not a fact - just opposite is the case.

QM is not the father of Uncertainty. QM predicts extremely rigorous standards and certainty! QM is a mathematical strategy ( a tool) which explains or predicts how atomic and subatomic particles and forces will act (and interact). QM actually applies more certainty to the world, rather than less! QM actually tightens and restricts 'what can happen' vs 'what cannot happen' and the whole body of quantum theory is tantamount to a new set of Conservation Laws which are the most basic Laws in Physics!

What the Sun does in nucleo-synthesis, for example, is a dead-certain proposition. That certainty is precisely what has lead to the technological world we have today ... from LEDs to nuclear bombs and reactors to radiation therapy and CT scanning. QM theory is responsible for that.

When it comes to QM and Uncertainty vs the idea of Remote Perception, I think you are confusing QM with ordinary probabilistic Innumeracy and Chance which occurs in daily life also - as a random statistical experience in life! The two are not the same.  Any contribution of QM to the Cooper case will occur in a Lab vs trying to remote view or imagine what Cooper did or did not do. Its as simple (and certain) as that.

I predict you will ignore everything I am saying, and continue in the same habits you have always had as part of your life strategy. We all have life strategies of one kind or another. Different life strategies lead to different life outcomes!  ;)   

Another option is that I will hold your perspective (and advice) in superposition until I have more information that would help me decide which quantum potential I want to collapse.

Until then.
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1316 on: January 09, 2018, 03:51:22 PM »
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As I understand quantum theory, the worms are both alive and dead until observed. However, there is an interesting counter theory that says the observer drinking the Twequila might not be observant enough. Interesting dilemma, no?

Yes, remote viewing, when we develop the skills necessary to make it reliable, will be a tremendous asset.

My understanding of QM is completely different from yours. There is no known association between QM and Consciousness - Perception - Neurology. A scientist at Harvard, Barb Shipman, actually looked into this - her father is a great mathematician. Look up Shipman's work on Bee roaming (in order to find pollen) and read it.

After that read something about what Quantum Mechanics is and how it came into being, and why. Your dimestore version of QM and Uncertainty is just that, a dimestore novel! QM and Uncertainty is not a fact - just opposite is the case.

QM is not the father of Uncertainty. QM predicts extremely rigorous standards and certainty! QM is a mathematical strategy ( a tool) which explains or predicts how atomic and subatomic particles and forces will act (and interact). QM actually applies more certainty to the world, rather than less! QM actually tightens and restricts 'what can happen' vs 'what cannot happen' and the whole body of quantum theory is tantamount to a new set of Conservation Laws which are the most basic Laws in Physics!

What the Sun does in nucleo-synthesis, for example, is a dead-certain proposition. That certainty is precisely what has lead to the technological world we have today ... from LEDs to nuclear bombs and reactors to radiation therapy and CT scanning. QM theory is responsible for that.

When it comes to QM and Uncertainty vs the idea of Remote Perception, I think you are confusing QM with ordinary probabilistic Innumeracy and Chance which occurs in daily life also - as a random statistical experience in life! The two are not the same.  Any contribution of QM to the Cooper case will occur in a Lab vs trying to remote view or imagine what Cooper did or did not do. Its as simple (and certain) as that.

I predict you will ignore everything I am saying, and continue in the same habits you have always had as part of your life strategy. We all have life strategies of one kind or another. Different life strategies lead to different life outcomes!  ;)   

Another option is that I will hold your perspective (and advice) in superposition until I have more information that would help me decide which quantum potential I want to collapse.

Until then.

Bruce you are still talking in riddles, using buzz words - that is the whole point of my post. QM adds greater certainty, its rules (what can and cannot happen) in the physical world is very strict. QM is the fundamental laws that run the universe! What can happen vs what cannot happen. Otherwise hypothetical matters like remote viewing through time would be an everyday common occurrence every living creature would be doing in one form or another. Otherwise, become a physicist and tell/show us all how this works. I will look forward to your article in the Mountain News!  :chr2:     

Prior to that article hire a good tax attorney because you will be the richest man on Earth - instantly!  :) You will have changed the history of the world with one article! You aspire to that role. Good luck.

As all of the mathematicians at this forum will tell you, mathematics is at the core of this (1750-1880) from Euler to Kirchhoff to Planck and names long forgotten - so gird yourself for the quantum leap! No parachute is possible.   
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 04:06:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1317 on: January 09, 2018, 05:49:34 PM »
Are you saying, Georger, that remote viewing is impossible?
 

Offline 377

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1318 on: January 16, 2018, 11:12:37 AM »
Another 727 exit video with pressure thumps clearly audible as each jumper exits. Don’t need a stair rebound. Stairs not lowered.

On my DC 9 jump I could have accurately counted every jumper exit from my seat in the forward section of the cabin, even blindfolded

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377
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 12:29:33 PM by 377 »
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #1319 on: January 16, 2018, 01:23:33 PM »
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Another 727 exit video with pressure thumps clearly audible as each jumper exits. Don’t need a stair rebound. Stairs not lowered.

On my DC 9 jump I could have accurately counted every jumper exit from my seat in the forward section of the cabin, even blindfolded

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377

Still curious what accounts for the 'pressure thumps clearly audible'. If not stairs closing hole then what? Presence of a moving body obstructing the hole then opening the hole - opening of chute close to the hole - ??