Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (11.1%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (7.4%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.7%)
50% Cooper lived
11 (20.4%)
75% Cooper lived
12 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
19 (35.2%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 588904 times)

Offline Kermit

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7500 on: October 18, 2021, 03:55:57 PM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7501 on: October 18, 2021, 05:34:07 PM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 05:40:55 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7502 on: October 18, 2021, 06:47:16 PM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.

Georger, for your theory to work, you have to ignore the simple fact that Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning unlocked).  He had an argument with Rataczak over this point and Rataczak claimed that the they could not take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning locked down).  Cooper finally agreed to take off with the stairs up simply to get the airliner inbound.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down.   
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7503 on: October 18, 2021, 09:15:19 PM »
Perhaps, Cooper thought if the stairs were down they wouldn't detect his departure?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7504 on: October 18, 2021, 11:28:06 PM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.

Georger, for your theory to work, you have to ignore the simple fact that Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning unlocked).  He had an argument with Rataczak over this point and Rataczak claimed that the they could not take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning locked down).  Cooper finally agreed to take off with the stairs up simply to get the airliner inbound.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down.

In order to bail early he must have door open and stairs down or hanging. He let these issues hang to be solved later.

I suppose you can say he was forced to wait but wanted to bail early. I can only look at what he did - I dont read minds!  Its all conjecture in any event.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 11:32:37 PM by georger »
 

Offline Dfs346

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7505 on: October 20, 2021, 04:49:08 PM »
Here are Dan Gryder's three latest YouTube videos in which he brings up D. B.Cooper:



(roughly at 3m45s through 5m30s):

In the third of these, Mr Gryder says inter alia that:
* he (alone) knows who D. B. Cooper was (or is)
* he has recorded a podcast with Darren Schaefer for The Cooper Vortex
* he is planning a parachute jump at the spot where (he believes) D. B. Cooper jumped.
 
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7506 on: October 20, 2021, 08:20:41 PM »
Thanks for posting this. I'm glad to see Dan somewhat back in the Vortex. I don't know if Darren remembers this or not, but I spoke with him a little over a year ago when he was trying to get me to do his podcast and I made two suggestions to him for future podcasts. One was Safecracking PLF, who he had on earlier this year, and the other was Dan Gryder. Most of us probably remember Dan, but for those who do not, he was on the DZ probably around the time that LD Cooper was the flavor of the week, maybe a little later. Dan had shot a video in a bank, with a stack of money on a table in front of him, and said that he would soon reveal who DB Cooper really was. Soon after that, he left the vortex and that video soon disappeared from Youtube. I always thought his suspect to be McCoy. So, it's good to see that Dan will be on the podcast.

It was cool to see and hear Marla sing. I play a little bit of bass guitar myself, so I always have an appreciation for the musical side of people, especially those who sing. I've always said that there are two things that I cannot do, and singing is both of them.
 
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7507 on: October 20, 2021, 09:28:25 PM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.

Georger, for your theory to work, you have to ignore the simple fact that Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning unlocked).  He had an argument with Rataczak over this point and Rataczak claimed that the they could not take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning locked down).  Cooper finally agreed to take off with the stairs up simply to get the airliner airborne.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down.

In order to bail early he must have door open and stairs down or hanging. He let these issues hang to be solved later.

I suppose you can say he was forced to wait but wanted to bail early. I can only look at what he did - I dont read minds!  Its all conjecture in any event.

To repeat, it has been discussed on this forum, DropZone, in several books, and elsewhere, that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs down.  Of course he is not going to bail to with the stairs up.  There is no conjecture here.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7508 on: October 20, 2021, 11:43:01 PM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.

Georger, for your theory to work, you have to ignore the simple fact that Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning unlocked).  He had an argument with Rataczak over this point and Rataczak claimed that the they could not take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning locked down).  Cooper finally agreed to take off with the stairs up simply to get the airliner airborne.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down.

In order to bail early he must have door open and stairs down or hanging. He let these issues hang to be solved later.

I suppose you can say he was forced to wait but wanted to bail early. I can only look at what he did - I dont read minds!  Its all conjecture in any event.

To repeat, it has been discussed on this forum, DropZone, in several books, and elsewhere, that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs down.  Of course he is not going to bail to with the stairs up.  There is no conjecture here.

He also wanted fuel, meals, and time to fabricate a knapsack. Before bailing he requested the plane slow and stabilize. Why didn't he go back and lower the stairs himself prior to takeoff? He could have over anyone's objection. He could have ordered rooms at the Molahlah Motel had he wanted to. He could have ordered flares to mark his landing near Seattle! A helo to meet him. Or a cab to stand by. . . .

If he intended to bail at or near Seattle, why didn;t he do it!   :rofl: 
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7509 on: October 21, 2021, 12:37:52 AM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.

Georger, for your theory to work, you have to ignore the simple fact that Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning unlocked).  He had an argument with Rataczak over this point and Rataczak claimed that the they could not take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning locked down).  Cooper finally agreed to take off with the stairs up simply to get the airliner airborne.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down.

In order to bail early he must have door open and stairs down or hanging. He let these issues hang to be solved later.

I suppose you can say he was forced to wait but wanted to bail early. I can only look at what he did - I dont read minds!  Its all conjecture in any event.

To repeat, it has been discussed on this forum, DropZone, in several books, and elsewhere, that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs down.  Of course, he is not going to bail out with the stairs up.  There is no conjecture here.

He also wanted fuel, meals, and time to fabricate a knapsack. Before bailing he requested the plane slow and stabilize. Why didn't he go back and lower the stairs himself prior to takeoff? He could have over anyone's objection. He could have ordered rooms at the Molahlah Motel had he wanted to. He could have ordered flares to mark his landing near Seattle! A helo to meet him. Or a cab to stand by. . . .

If he intended to bail at or near Seattle, why didn;t he do it!   :rofl:

You seem to forget that Cooper didn't learn much from Tina about lowering the stairs.  Cooper may have been a lousy student and/or Tina may have been a lousy instructor but it is unlikely that the flight crew would take off with the stairs down.  So Rataczak and Cooper had an argument on that point and Cooper gave in just to get airborne.

To the best of my memory, the only time the airliner slowed down was shortly after take off when Cooper asked that it do so to help him get the stairs down.  He jumped about 30 minutes later when the airliner was at 10,000 feet and had an airspeed of about 195 knots.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7510 on: October 21, 2021, 04:37:16 AM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.

Georger, for your theory to work, you have to ignore the simple fact that Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning unlocked).  He had an argument with Rataczak over this point and Rataczak claimed that the they could not take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning locked down).  Cooper finally agreed to take off with the stairs up simply to get the airliner airborne.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down.

In order to bail early he must have door open and stairs down or hanging. He let these issues hang to be solved later.

I suppose you can say he was forced to wait but wanted to bail early. I can only look at what he did - I dont read minds!  Its all conjecture in any event.

To repeat, it has been discussed on this forum, DropZone, in several books, and elsewhere, that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs down.  Of course, he is not going to bail out with the stairs up.  There is no conjecture here.

He also wanted fuel, meals, and time to fabricate a knapsack. Before bailing he requested the plane slow and stabilize. Why didn't he go back and lower the stairs himself prior to takeoff? He could have over anyone's objection. He could have ordered rooms at the Molahlah Motel had he wanted to. He could have ordered flares to mark his landing near Seattle! A helo to meet him. Or a cab to stand by. . . .

If he intended to bail at or near Seattle, why didn;t he do it!   :rofl:

You seem to forget that Cooper didn't learn much from Tina about lowering the stairs.  Cooper may have been a lousy student and/or Tina may have been a lousy instructor but it is unlikely that the flight crew would take off with the stairs down.  So Rataczak and Cooper had an argument on that point and Cooper gave in just to get airborne.

To the best of my memory, the only time the airliner slowed down was shortly after take off when Cooper asked that it do so to help him get the stairs down.  He jumped about 30 minutes later when the airliner was at 10,000 feet and had an airspeed of about 195 knots.

from the crew interviews:

Rataczak added that after take off at 7:36 pm they received a call from the hijacker at around 7:42pm indicating that he could not get the stairs lowered in flight. We slowed the aircraft down and subsequently the cockpit light indicating the rear stairs were down. At that time the Captain instructed the hijacker to sound the bell on the intercom in the event he wished to make any further contact with them, and he agreed to do so. 
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7511 on: October 21, 2021, 09:22:29 AM »
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I do think Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff. Can you imagine his anxiety as that opportunity quickly passed? Everything was changing and his control of the situation was vanishing.

I prefer leisurely flights when I jump. I miss the slow rides up in DC 3s and heavily loaded Twin Beeches. I occasionally slumbered during the long rides. Once, at the World Free Fall Convention I dozed off in a slow climbing DC 3. Half an hour later, as we turned onto jump run, I was jolted awake by a gorgeous Japanese women jumper giving me a wet kiss and yelling “my husband is coming, you have to leave right now”. Laughter erupted as I bolted upright and stumbled towards the door. For the rest of the week jumpers would shout “my husband is coming” when they saw me. Embarrassing.

377

Although I usually agree with your opinions, I will respectfully disagree on your opinion that Cooper intended to bail shortly after takeoff and I’ll give 3 reasons.
1. Bailing shortly after takeoff in a urban area would have almost certainly led to his capture ! 
2. Cooper knew plane could be flown with stairs down. The longer period the stairs are down, the greater the search area ! Irregardless of the bump and Oscillations, we must remember that the FBI wasn’t certain if he might still be aboard plane when it landed in Reno !
3. Perhaps most important is his caper originated in Portland, Oregon. It’s very possible his escape vehicle might be somewhere close to PDX. Also far better chance to bail in a more rural area with far less chance of being seen ! It’s quite clear nobody saw him bail. JMHO !

agree with all of these -

The fact everyone ignores is he couldnt get the door open when he wanted - in any event. If he had intended to bail early he would have taken steps to make sure the door was open and the stairs available. You cant bail early through a closed hole!  Especially a hole you havent even tried to open yet. Dawning the chute early without making sure the back portal is open at the same time, is  meaningless.

Georger, for your theory to work, you have to ignore the simple fact that Cooper wanted to take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning unlocked).  He had an argument with Rataczak over this point and Rataczak claimed that the they could not take off with the aft stairs down (apparently meaning locked down).  Cooper finally agreed to take off with the stairs up simply to get the airliner airborne.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down.

In order to bail early he must have door open and stairs down or hanging. He let these issues hang to be solved later.

I suppose you can say he was forced to wait but wanted to bail early. I can only look at what he did - I dont read minds!  Its all conjecture in any event.

To repeat, it has been discussed on this forum, DropZone, in several books, and elsewhere, that Cooper wanted to take off with the stairs down.  Of course, he is not going to bail out with the stairs up.  There is no conjecture here.

He also wanted fuel, meals, and time to fabricate a knapsack. Before bailing he requested the plane slow and stabilize. Why didn't he go back and lower the stairs himself prior to takeoff? He could have over anyone's objection. He could have ordered rooms at the Molahlah Motel had he wanted to. He could have ordered flares to mark his landing near Seattle! A helo to meet him. Or a cab to stand by. . . .

If he intended to bail at or near Seattle, why didn;t he do it!   :rofl:

You seem to forget that Cooper didn't learn much from Tina about lowering the stairs.  Cooper may have been a lousy student and/or Tina may have been a lousy instructor but it is unlikely that the flight crew would take off with the stairs down.  So Rataczak and Cooper had an argument on that point and Cooper gave in just to get airborne.

To the best of my memory, the only time the airliner slowed down was shortly after take off when Cooper asked that it do so to help him get the stairs down.  He jumped about 30 minutes later when the airliner was at 10,000 feet and had an airspeed of about 195 knots.

Robert: 195 knots or 195 MPH?  I thought the plane was going around 175 MPH.  195 knots would put it at about 225 MPH (assuming no head or tail wind).

A comment about the stairs: I feel like the group that thinks Cooper was very knowledgeable about the 727 references that he knew the stairs could be lowered in flight.  Does this same group say that he was knowledgeable about the 727 because he thought the plane could take off with the stairs lowered?  I'm guessing no, because I can't think of a situation where the 727 would have taken off with stairs down, even in Vietnam.


 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7512 on: October 21, 2021, 01:36:09 PM »
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To the best of my memory, the only time the airliner slowed down was shortly after takeoff when Cooper asked that it do so to help him get the stairs down.  He jumped about 30 minutes later when the airliner was at 10,000 feet and had an airspeed of about 195 knots.

Robert: 195 knots or 195 MPH?  I thought the plane was going around 175 MPH.  195 knots would put it at about 225 MPH (assuming no head or tailwind).

A comment about the stairs: I feel like the group that thinks Cooper was very knowledgeable about the 727 references that he knew the stairs could be lowered in flight.  Does this same group say that he was knowledgeable about the 727 because he thought the plane could take off with the stairs lowered?  I'm guessing no, because I can't think of a situation where the 727 would have taken off with stairs down, even in Vietnam.

Cooper was apparently referring to the stairs just being unlocked and trailing in the wind.  Taking off under those conditions was no big deal.  Several articles appeared in aviation publications in 1964, the same year the 727 went into airline use, that stated that the 727 had been flight-tested with the stairs down.

The NWA performance engineers in Minneapolis told the flight crew to fly at 170 Knots Indicated Airspeed to maximum their range with the aircraft configuration that Cooper had specified.  170 Knots Indicated Airspeed translates to 195 Knots True Airspeed at the 10,000 feet pressure altitude and ambient temperature that the airliner was experiencing.  And 195 Knots is about 225 MPH.  This is the speed of the airliner with respect to the air mass that it is flying in.

To obtain the speed of the aircraft over the ground, which determines the range, the winds aloft have to be taken into account.  In the 1971 time frame, this was done by a pilot's handheld calculator that was used to determine the headwind or tailwind component of the winds aloft with respect to the airliner.  Adding or subtracting that component as applicable gave the ground speed of the airliner.

The use of Nautical Miles for distance and Knots (Nautical Miles per hour) for speed is standard in aviation.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 01:41:17 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7513 on: October 22, 2021, 12:23:42 AM »
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A comment about the stairs: I feel like the group that thinks Cooper was very knowledgeable about the 727 references that he knew the stairs could be lowered in flight.  Does this same group say that he was knowledgeable about the 727 because he thought the plane could take off with the stairs lowered?  I'm guessing no, because I can't think of a situation where the 727 would have taken off with stairs down, even in Vietnam.


Daly's World Airways 727-100 that took off from Da Nang while the North was taking over, had the stairs down during takeoff and people hanging on/falling off.

NYT 1975 article
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video of the plane taxiing with stairs down starts here
 
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the narrator of the video says people are clinging to the stairs as it takes off
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You can see the plane is airborne with the stairs still down, starting here
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People stilling clinging to stairs, 7 fell off

Daly pulled one onboard from the stairs.

So yes, you can take off with people on the stairs.

Here he says that in flight, they couldn't close the stairs because they were damaged
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So you can take off, but likely you will damage the stairs?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 12:24:51 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7514 on: October 22, 2021, 12:57:49 AM »
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So you can take off, but likely you will damage the stairs?

Not necessarily.  If the stairs were "floating", and not locked down, and without anyone on them, it is unlikely that they would suffer any more damage than the scrapes that the hijacked airliner's stairs had during the landing at Reno.  But if multiple bodies were on the bottom portion of the stairs, the stairs would drag on the runway much longer.  From the information above, it is not known what damage the stairs had that would prevent them from being retracted if there was no one on them.