Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (11.1%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (7.4%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.7%)
50% Cooper lived
11 (20.4%)
75% Cooper lived
12 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
19 (35.2%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 592029 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6720 on: July 22, 2021, 03:07:04 PM »
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Nope, not a doctor, but I play one on TV.

Just kidding.

I'm a college English professor. No background in chemicals or medicine or metallurgy. So, take that for what it's worth.

That said, my wife works in the medical field. Also, all of my research is sourced, but may not be exhaustive. I encourage all of you to let me know of additional applications for these elements and compounds.

Not sure what direction to go here.  Tom silent. Others silent. People who could get involved unwilling to do so because of the personal subversive dynamic of Cooper internet politics and (book writers). You aren't the first to try and connect substances from Tom's list to a pharmacology and Cooper's personal health and a condition he might have been dealing with. Several people of note (all MDs) have looked at Tom's particles/substances list and wondered if there was not a pharmacological health connection; some health issue Cooper or somebody was dealing with, based on substances on this tie?  But again Tom is not here to discuss or clarify anything if and when debates might surface ...

The tie was nylon ?  How does nylon react when exposed to extreme heat environments?

The tie could have been a clever plant, just as the 'bomb' was a controlling diversion. It cannot have escaped Cooper that his 'bomb' was a powerful diversion and controlling factor. 

I am struck by the possibility that a sick person would start and conduct a stressful hijacking of this kind, in bad weather.  Is this the photo of a terminally ill person? I may regret using the word but this sketch photo does look (to me) a little 'gaunt' ? Sunken cheeks? Thin? Did either Tina or Flo or Alice say anything to suggest this 'look' ? 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 03:21:35 PM by georger »
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6721 on: July 22, 2021, 03:24:55 PM »
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Nope, not a doctor, but I play one on TV.

Just kidding.

I'm a college English professor. No background in chemicals or medicine or metallurgy. So, take that for what it's worth.

That said, my wife works in the medical field. Also, all of my research is sourced, but may not be exhaustive. I encourage all of you to let me know of additional applications for these elements and compounds.

Not sure what direction to go here.  Tom silent. Others silent. People who could get involved unwilling to do so because of the personal subversive dynamic of Cooper internet politics and (book writers). You aren't the first to try and connect substances to Cooper's personal health and a condition he might have been dealing with. Several people of note have looked at Tom's particles/substances list and wondered if there was not a health-pharmacological connection; some health issue Cooper was dealing with?  But again Tom is not here to discuss or clarify anything if and when debates might surface ...

The tie was nylon ?  How does nylon react  if exposed to extreme heat environments?

The tie could have been a clever plant, just as the 'bomb' was a controlling diversion.

I am struck by the possibility that a sick person would start and conduct a stressful hijacking of this kind, in bad weather.  Is this the photo of a terminally ill person?

Definitely some good work here.  Georger, you made me think of something.  As far as I know, all the main suspects discussed were living for a while after the hijacking (except maybe Lepsey).  If Cooper was terminally ill, and died soon after, then maybe there simply would not have been focus on that guy as a suspect.  The family puts him in his grave and gets rid of his belongings and that's it.  Certainly having a terminal condition could motivate someone to do the hijacking, whether because he didn't care anymore, or because he wanted to leave his family with some money.

I spent some time this past weekend cleaning out my uncle's house and getting my aunt settled in a nursing home.  I realized that there were rooms in that house that I had never been in.  He could have been Cooper and I as a nephew may never have known it.  He was too young, older than Rackstraw and McCoy though at the time.  What I also realized is that Cooper likely died years ago, and someone probably cleaned out his belongings.  If that was the case, then something could very easily have popped up in front of a nephew/niece, grandkid etc.  My point here is that I find it hard to believe that someone in Cooper's family did not know he was Cooper, whether in 1971 or when he died when they went through his belongings.  I still feel that the family knows or highly suspects they know who DB Cooper is, but just don't want to say anything.  I think one strong possibility is that they don't want to be known.  Why not?  The main thing I can think of is that they benefited from his hijacking, maybe a beach house.  Or, they don't want their names in the news.  I think someone knows.

I'd love to see the tie get some more focus again, simply to have something other than the stairs or flight path to talk about for a while.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 03:26:25 PM by fcastle866 »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6722 on: July 22, 2021, 03:39:52 PM »
Do these sketch photos suggest any medical condition?  Exclude #1.   
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 03:41:27 PM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6723 on: July 22, 2021, 07:31:02 PM »
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Do these sketch photos suggest any medical condition?  Exclude #1.
I think that depends on what medical condition you are referring to. Regarding cancer, I'd say no, they don't look bald, sick or gaunt. Also, your previous comment about someone with late-stage cancer having the strength to pull off the hijacking is a good one. I don't know the answer, but it would seem unlikely.

I also want to point out that I don't have a suspect to peddle. I admit I am currently investigating someone of interest, but to my knowledge, that person was never treated for cancer. I'm just going where the information leads me, and to be fair, it might be leading me down the wrong path.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 10:57:27 PM by Chaucer »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6724 on: July 22, 2021, 07:40:05 PM »
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Not sure what direction to go here.  Tom silent.
I'd love to hear from Tom.
Quote
Others silent.
I would encourage every Coooper researcher to look at my spreadsheet, fact-check it, and inform me of any needed additions to it. I'd love to hear everyone's insight.
Quote
People who could get involved unwilling to do so because of the personal subversive dynamic of Cooper internet politics and (book writers).
Yes, I think many people involved with Cooper will have confirmation bias and see what they want to see in the particles. That's a shame.

Quote
You aren't the first to try and connect substances from Tom's list to a pharmacology and Cooper's personal health and a condition he might have been dealing with. Several people of note (all MDs) have looked at Tom's particles/substances list and wondered if there was not a pharmacological health connection; some health issue Cooper or somebody was dealing with, based on substances on this tie?

As I have said, connections can be made with many industries, but the iron cobat is what really sunk in with me because there are so few uses for it, but one is in radiology machines.

Quote
The tie was nylon ?  How does nylon react when exposed to extreme heat environments?
Nylon is extremely resistant to heat having one of the highest melting temperatures of all resins.

Quote
The tie could have been a clever plant, just as the 'bomb' was a controlling diversion. It cannot have escaped Cooper that his 'bomb' was a powerful diversion and controlling factor. 
Agreed. It is most likely impossible to know.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 11:04:06 PM by Chaucer »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6725 on: July 23, 2021, 03:07:54 PM »
I didnt get anything WRONG! I was asking a question: what is the tie made of! YHWH over at the Hate Zone says:  "Cooper's tie is Dacron Polyester not nylon... no they are not the same. and yes, Hahneman was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1971, I have already examined the tie particles in relation to a cancer patient. " . . . and other stuff.

Has a list of stores that sold the tie ever surfaced, from YHWH or The FBI ?   
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 03:42:25 PM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6726 on: July 23, 2021, 05:49:57 PM »
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I didnt get anything WRONG! I was asking a question: what is the tie made of! YHWH over at the Hate Zone says:  "Cooper's tie is Dacron Polyester not nylon... no they are not the same. and yes, Hahneman was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1971, I have already examined the tie particles in relation to a cancer patient. " . . . and other stuff.

Has a list of stores that sold the tie ever surfaced, from YHWH or The FBI ?
The chain of custody of the tie and the level of protection the FBI provided it is of great concern. These particles could have come from innumerable places if the tie was not handled appropriately by law enforcement. Also, there is the possibility that some or all of these particles could have come as a result of either the FBI's or Tome Kaye's analysis. For example, calcium flourine is used in the lenses of spectroscopes and microscopes. Could there have been contamination?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6727 on: July 23, 2021, 11:32:22 PM »
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I didnt get anything WRONG! I was asking a question: what is the tie made of! YHWH over at the Hate Zone says:  "Cooper's tie is Dacron Polyester not nylon... no they are not the same. and yes, Hahneman was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1971, I have already examined the tie particles in relation to a cancer patient. " . . . and other stuff.

Has a list of stores that sold the tie ever surfaced, from YHWH or The FBI ?

The chain of custody of the tie and the level of protection the FBI provided it is of great concern. These particles could have come from innumerable places if the tie was not handled appropriately by law enforcement. Also, there is the possibility that some or all of these particles could have come as a result of either the FBI's or Tome Kaye's analysis. For example, calcium flourine is used in the lenses of spectroscopes and microscopes. Could there have been contamination?

Dna work also suspect due to improper storage/handling. This is the case that just keeps on giving . . . .  >:D
« Last Edit: July 23, 2021, 11:33:31 PM by georger »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6728 on: July 24, 2021, 12:06:34 AM »
We are Tantalus and the case is a cup of water.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6729 on: July 24, 2021, 03:06:49 PM »
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SLICE   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 03:10:56 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6730 on: July 24, 2021, 09:48:48 PM »
Larry Carr and the Mystery Group

Larry Carr seems to be doubling-down on his belief that DB Cooper jumped with a too-hard-to-use-safely military chute, as evidence by recent postings on Eric's DB Cooper Mystery Group Facebook page.

Eric's "Group" is both a blessing and a curse, as it has many fresh voices and interesting discussion. However, it is very hard to follow and read as many of the messages are hidden or truncated to Fb formatting. UG! I find it a royal pain in the ass, and lots of folks email me to ask that I join the conversation, but whew - it's work.

As it turns out, some of the editors and producers I have been interviewed by recently are also interviewing Larry, and word is getting back to me that he is sticking by his claim that Coop died in the jump because he used Cossey's personal chute - the blasted NB-6 that was overstuffed with a 28-foot canopy and had serious modifications to the rip cord that made it next-to-impossible to use, except for Coss.

Now Eric is touting the same point of view, saying he has a "legit source" to back up his claims, which I assume is Larry. But I call Bullshit.

To say Cooper used any back chute from Cossey, one has to prove a few things:

1. Why did Cossey send his two back chutes to the wrong airport?
2. How did Cossey's back chutes get to Sea-Tac? Who drove them there?
3. Cossey says that he was informed of NWO's need for parachutes by Al Lee, but can anyone prove or corroborate that Lee, the Chief of Ground Ops, was the guy calling Cossey or looking for chutes? I haven't seen a stitch of documentation on that. On the flip side, there is significant documentation and corroboration on the Norman Hayden - George Harrison negotiation and delivery of two back chutes.

So, if Cooper used one of Cossey's chutes, then four back chutes must have been delivered - Hayden's two Pioneer/Steinthaul rigs, and Cossey's NB-6/NB-8 (take your pick because he has said both at different times to different people) and a Pioneer-Something.

So, where are the other three back chutes? One got returned to Norman, allegedly, and is now at the WSHM. Cossey told me that he never got either of his back chutes back.
 
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Offline MEYDC

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6731 on: July 24, 2021, 10:24:42 PM »
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Larry Carr and the Mystery Group

Larry Carr seems to be doubling-down on his belief that DB Cooper jumped with a too-hard-to-use-safely military chute, as evidence by recent postings on Eric's DB Cooper Mystery Group Facebook page.

Eric's "Group" is both a blessing and a curse, as it has many fresh voices and interesting discussion. However, it is very hard to follow and read as many of the messages are hidden or truncated to Fb formatting. UG! I find it a royal pain in the ass, and lots of folks email me to ask that I join the conversation, but whew - it's work.

As it turns out, some of the editors and producers I have been interviewed by recently are also interviewing Larry, and word is getting back to me that he is sticking by his claim that Coop died in the jump because he used Cossey's personal chute - the blasted NB-6 that was overstuffed with a 28-foot canopy and had serious modifications to the rip cord that made it next-to-impossible to use, except for Coss.

Now Eric is touting the same point of view, saying he has a "legit source" to back up his claims, which I assume is Larry. But I call Bullshit.

To say Cooper used any back chute from Cossey, one has to prove a few things:

1. Why did Cossey send his two back chutes to the wrong airport?
2. How did Cossey's back chutes get to Sea-Tac? Who drove them there?
3. Cossey says that he was informed of NWO's need for parachutes by Al Lee, but can anyone prove or corroborate that Lee, the Chief of Ground Ops, was the guy calling Cossey or looking for chutes? I haven't seen a stitch of documentation on that. On the flip side, there is significant documentation and corroboration on the Norman Hayden - George Harrison negotiation and delivery of two back chutes.

So, if Cooper used one of Cossey's chutes, then four back chutes must have been delivered - Hayden's two Pioneer/Steinthaul rigs, and Cossey's NB-6/NB-8 (take your pick because he has said both at different times to different people) and a Pioneer-Something.

So, where are the other three back chutes? One got returned to Norman, allegedly, and is now at the WSHM. Cossey told me that he never got either of his back chutes back.
did Cooper handle all of the chutes? Could his DNA be on any of them us what I am getting at.
 

Offline nickyb233

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6732 on: July 25, 2021, 12:27:35 AM »
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Larry Carr and the Mystery Group

Larry Carr seems to be doubling-down on his belief that DB Cooper jumped with a too-hard-to-use-safely military chute, as evidence by recent postings on Eric's DB Cooper Mystery Group Facebook page.

Eric's "Group" is both a blessing and a curse, as it has many fresh voices and interesting discussion. However, it is very hard to follow and read as many of the messages are hidden or truncated to Fb formatting. UG! I find it a royal pain in the ass, and lots of folks email me to ask that I join the conversation, but whew - it's work.

As it turns out, some of the editors and producers I have been interviewed by recently are also interviewing Larry, and word is getting back to me that he is sticking by his claim that Coop died in the jump because he used Cossey's personal chute - the blasted NB-6 that was overstuffed with a 28-foot canopy and had serious modifications to the rip cord that made it next-to-impossible to use, except for Coss.

Now Eric is touting the same point of view, saying he has a "legit source" to back up his claims, which I assume is Larry. But I call Bullshit.

To say Cooper used any back chute from Cossey, one has to prove a few things:

1. Why did Cossey send his two back chutes to the wrong airport?
2. How did Cossey's back chutes get to Sea-Tac? Who drove them there?
3. Cossey says that he was informed of NWO's need for parachutes by Al Lee, but can anyone prove or corroborate that Lee, the Chief of Ground Ops, was the guy calling Cossey or looking for chutes? I haven't seen a stitch of documentation on that. On the flip side, there is significant documentation and corroboration on the Norman Hayden - George Harrison negotiation and delivery of two back chutes.

So, if Cooper used one of Cossey's chutes, then four back chutes must have been delivered - Hayden's two Pioneer/Steinthaul rigs, and Cossey's NB-6/NB-8 (take your pick because he has said both at different times to different people) and a Pioneer-Something.

So, where are the other three back chutes? One got returned to Norman, allegedly, and is now at the WSHM. Cossey told me that he never got either of his back chutes back.

Yeah pretty obvious LC is his source and I'm right there with you Uncle Bruce...I was still a little unclear on the chutes and it had been a while since I've seen your youtube vid on it but you just clarified it for me. I wasn't sure if cossey claimed to know exactly what haydens chutes were but I guess he told you he sent a whole other set of back chutes (mysteriously sent to BF) aside from haydens and the ones taken from ISP.  I think it's a cock and bull story by Cossey... LC had no clue about hayden providing and chutes. He never bothered to read the case files, GG did and brought it to light. Interestingly enough in loren petersons interview with the WSHM... he was working at the freight desk the night of the skyjacking, he said they got 6 chutes but he also said he got 250k in tansom so who knows but one thing I know is cossy is not to be believed. I'd believe Jo weber before him.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 12:40:17 AM by nickyb233 »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6733 on: July 25, 2021, 01:18:15 AM »
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Larry Carr and the Mystery Group

Larry Carr seems to be doubling-down on his belief that DB Cooper jumped with a too-hard-to-use-safely military chute, as evidence by recent postings on Eric's DB Cooper Mystery Group Facebook page.

Eric's "Group" is both a blessing and a curse, as it has many fresh voices and interesting discussion. However, it is very hard to follow and read as many of the messages are hidden or truncated to Fb formatting. UG! I find it a royal pain in the ass, and lots of folks email me to ask that I join the conversation, but whew - it's work.

As it turns out, some of the editors and producers I have been interviewed by recently are also interviewing Larry, and word is getting back to me that he is sticking by his claim that Coop died in the jump because he used Cossey's personal chute - the blasted NB-6 that was overstuffed with a 28-foot canopy and had serious modifications to the rip cord that made it next-to-impossible to use, except for Coss.

Now Eric is touting the same point of view, saying he has a "legit source" to back up his claims, which I assume is Larry. But I call Bullshit.

To say Cooper used any back chute from Cossey, one has to prove a few things:

1. Why did Cossey send his two back chutes to the wrong airport?
2. How did Cossey's back chutes get to Sea-Tac? Who drove them there?
3. Cossey says that he was informed of NWO's need for parachutes by Al Lee, but can anyone prove or corroborate that Lee, the Chief of Ground Ops, was the guy calling Cossey or looking for chutes? I haven't seen a stitch of documentation on that. On the flip side, there is significant documentation and corroboration on the Norman Hayden - George Harrison negotiation and delivery of two back chutes.

So, if Cooper used one of Cossey's chutes, then four back chutes must have been delivered - Hayden's two Pioneer/Steinthaul rigs, and Cossey's NB-6/NB-8 (take your pick because he has said both at different times to different people) and a Pioneer-Something.

So, where are the other three back chutes? One got returned to Norman, allegedly, and is now at the WSHM. Cossey told me that he never got either of his back chutes back.

Larry Carr seems to be doubling-down on his belief that DB Cooper jumped with a too-hard-to-use-safely military chute


Its a little late for "beliefs". Beliefs will buy you a ticket in but the price of eggs is still the same. And they still pass the donation cup around at the end of each service. 

As for extracting dna from any of the chute evidence, its a little late for that also. Foresight was not part of the old Cooper case. You cant put Humpty Dumpty back together again. Research on Facebook? That's interesting. People are free to go where they want. All the great jazz people used to gather at the Lemon Lounge in Indianapolis IN. People go where they want!

I dont know of a major corporation or institution that does its research .... on a Facebook page?  That's a new concept to me! 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 01:32:11 AM by georger »
 

Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6734 on: July 25, 2021, 02:13:18 AM »
However many parachutes were sent to wherever the hell they went, here are a few basic facts about them.

Especially a pilot bailout rig with a standard round, in totality as a mechanical device, they are extremely simple. A ripcord is about as simple a device as you can imagine. A straight cable with a handle on one end, pin(s) on the other. It routes through a housing. You pull the handle, it pulls the pin. The rest of the deployment happens on it's own. If you're in freefall, the power source (relative wind) is present. There is literally nothing you can do to it to make it 'too hard to use'. There is no such possibility as a required dual directional pull. You pull it in the direction it comes out of the housing. If the rig used was Hayden's would Cossey rig it to be difficult (if it were possible) for a pilot, who has no experience with parachutes, and if he needed it it would be in a high stress quick time event? If it were Cossey's, about the only thing he could do to it would be mount the ripcord handle in an unusual spot. An experienced jumper would easily take note of that. A non experienced person wouldn't know the difference. In either case, Cooper would just note where it is, and pull it when needed. Simple.

Cossey seemed to like to BS reporters. Any statement he might have made as to the 'difficulty' of such a rig would be intentional balderdash on his part.
 
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