Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.2%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.2%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
100 Cooper lived
25 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 3607799 times)

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9301
  • Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4170 on: November 19, 2018, 10:41:58 PM »
I don't see the reasoning no matter who said it. it's a ground training chute that was obviously used multiple times a day. why would you even need someone qualified to pack the damn thing?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 10:42:34 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4171 on: November 19, 2018, 10:58:23 PM »
yes, but you agree that it would be unlikely Cooper would try to throw something at that crack?
Wouldn't he be worried about it getting stuck and not being able to retrieve it?
I would think he'd walk down a bit, and toss it when he has more clearance.


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
This photo is probably close to where the stairs would be with no weight on them..open enough for something small to get out.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9301
  • Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4172 on: November 19, 2018, 11:03:08 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
yes, but you agree that it would be unlikely Cooper would try to throw something at that crack?
Wouldn't he be worried about it getting stuck and not being able to retrieve it?
I would think he'd walk down a bit, and toss it when he has more clearance.


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
This photo is probably close to where the stairs would be with no weight on them..open enough for something small to get out.


I'm not implying he was aiming. if he ripped it off and tossed it down the stairs (simple discarding) the odds are likely of the card getting off the stairs. especially if he was right handed that would be the direction he would of tossed it.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9301
  • Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4173 on: November 19, 2018, 11:10:51 PM »
A lot of comments on the DZ speak about using a daisy-chain for brake lines and foils etc.

"I used gear where a daisy chain was used to secure the deployment brake setting, but we still had a cat eye."

" The brakes were set using a daisy chain"
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 11:14:14 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9301
  • Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4174 on: November 19, 2018, 11:11:43 PM »
Remeber where the box is to access the stairs. it's basically in the stairs.
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3188
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4175 on: November 20, 2018, 12:09:35 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
yeah it's interesting that when he wanted cord, he cut the 2nd reserve. not the 2nd back rig

I guess it could have just been a random choice

Maybe if he was a skydiver, in this mind the back rig was higher value, and he didn't want to destroy it? Cut up the obviously less worthy chest reserve?

Cooper may have acted assuming the chutes could have beepers.. leave two on the plane and throw out the other front reserve.. split them up..

That's the best thought I've heard so far on opening the chute. His primary reason for doing so may have been inspection.

It actually makes no sense. What the hell's he going to do if he finds a beeper? Not jump. What then?

He opened the reserve in an attempt to store the ransom. When that didn't work he opened the other reserve to cannibalize the shroud lines. It's as straight forward as that.

He ordered the knapsack and the chutes together. " 3:20pm  "He must have knapsack with money before any other steps taken. [wants money in knapsack ?]"

He might as well have said but failed to say, he wanted the money IN the knapsack.

Failing to get the knapsack he opened a chute to fashion some container for the money, and this is one of first things he did (observed by all the stews). 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 12:11:18 AM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1877
  • Thanked: 176 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4176 on: November 20, 2018, 12:33:45 AM »
I think this whole discussion started when I suggested cooper tossed the one reserve.
there was the suggestion he might not have tossed it. I can't see that.
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3188
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4177 on: November 20, 2018, 12:49:22 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
yeah it's interesting that when he wanted cord, he cut the 2nd reserve. not the 2nd back rig

I guess it could have just been a random choice

Maybe if he was a skydiver, in this mind the back rig was higher value, and he didn't want to destroy it? Cut up the obviously less worthy chest reserve?

Cooper may have acted assuming the chutes could have beepers.. leave two on the plane and throw out the other front reserve.. split them up..

That's the best thought I've heard so far on opening the chute. His primary reason for doing so may have been inspection.

It actually makes no sense. What the hell's he going to do if he finds a beeper? Not jump. What then?

He opened the reserve in an attempt to store the ransom. When that didn't work he opened the other reserve to cannibalize the shroud lines. It's as straight forward as that.

He ordered the knapsack and the chutes together. " 3:20pm  "He must have knapsack with money before any other steps taken. [wants money in knapsack ?]"

He might as well have said but failed to say, he wanted the money IN the knapsack.

Failing to get the knapsack he opened a chute to fashion some container for the money, and this is one of first things he did (observed by all the stews).

"It was also during this time that he complained to Mucklow that he had requested the money be delivered in a knapsack but instead it was delivered in a cloth type bank bag, which displeased him. It was at this time that Mucklow recalls he stated he would be forced to use one of the parachutes to rewrap the money since he had not been furnished the knapsack. At this same time Mucklow says she suddenly observed him having a small green paper bag, contents unknown." / Interview 11-30 Mucklow: /

Harold Anderson 11/20:  ... the hijacker even specified that the money was to be delivered in a knapsack ...

After reviewing all of the transcripts, interviews, etc. it is very clear Cooper ordered the money t0o be delivered in a knapsack - that was the whole purpose of ordering a knapsack.

It is also abundantly clear, after reviewing all of these transcripts, that the ONLY place the ransom is referred to as 'negotiable American currency' is in one radio passage radioed by Scott at 3:13pm saying: "3:13pm [PI Transcript]  Wants money in negotiable American currency denomination of bills not important." These words are therefore Scott's words and interpretation not repeated in the same form by anyone anywhere else that I can find. The ransom is referred to by other terms, by others in other documents and testimony which includes the crew interviews.

I will list all of that later... when convenient.   
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 01:24:48 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Thanked: 53 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4178 on: November 20, 2018, 01:34:51 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It actually makes no sense. What the hell's he going to do if he finds a beeper? Not jump. What then?

He opened the reserve in an attempt to store the ransom. When that didn't work he opened the other reserve to cannibalize the shroud lines. It's as straight forward as that.

I love when you instruct me, Eric.

What the hell was Hahnemann going to do if he found a beeper? Not jump? He did anyway. You literally have one of the five known parajackers searching the chutes for devices and still jumping and you are trying to tell me that not only does it make no sense, but that you know better.
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Thanked: 53 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4179 on: November 20, 2018, 01:37:53 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Cooper only opened one chute as far as any evidence shows. zero proof he opened the dummy chute?

Yes, that's correct. My theory is that the first reserve he opened was the dummy (in an attempt to secure the ransom). This also ties in with Sheridan's comment about the dummy reserve being daisy-chained.

What were some of your earlier theories on the other suspects you investigated?
 

Offline georger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3188
  • Thanked: 467 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4180 on: November 20, 2018, 02:06:43 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Cooper only opened one chute as far as any evidence shows. zero proof he opened the dummy chute?

Yes, that's correct. My theory is that the first reserve he opened was the dummy (in an attempt to secure the ransom). This also ties in with Sheridan's comment about the dummy reserve being daisy-chained.

What were some of your earlier theories on the other suspects you investigated?

People dont know the difference between a hypothesis and a theory!

I have a theory it will rain tomorrow _ based on no evidence!  :rofl:

In these Cooper forums people are calling anything and everything a - theory.  :nono:
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 02:08:05 AM by georger »
 

Offline Unsurelock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Thanked: 53 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4181 on: November 20, 2018, 02:54:56 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Cooper only opened one chute as far as any evidence shows. zero proof he opened the dummy chute?

Yes, that's correct. My theory is that the first reserve he opened was the dummy (in an attempt to secure the ransom). This also ties in with Sheridan's comment about the dummy reserve being daisy-chained.

What were some of your earlier theories on the other suspects you investigated?

People dont know the difference between a hypothesis and a theory!

I have a theory it will rain tomorrow _ based on no evidence!  :rofl:

In these Cooper forums people are calling anything and everything a - theory.  :nono:

I am going to post that  :rofl: emoji on your legacy.com page one day.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9301
  • Thanked: 1026 times
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4182 on: November 20, 2018, 05:29:50 AM »
Quote
He opened the reserve in an attempt to store the ransom. When that didn't work he opened the other reserve to cannibalize the shroud lines. It's as straight forward as that.

He pulled the reserve chute out of the container. this is when he discovered the container wouldn't work. why would he open another container that is exactly the same?

If he used the dummy chute for a container, where did the chute go?
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4183 on: November 20, 2018, 08:36:33 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
yeah it's interesting that when he wanted cord, he cut the 2nd reserve. not the 2nd back rig

I guess it could have just been a random choice

Maybe if he was a skydiver, in this mind the back rig was higher value, and he didn't want to destroy it? Cut up the obviously less worthy chest reserve?

Cooper may have acted assuming the chutes could have beepers.. leave two on the plane and throw out the other front reserve.. split them up..

That's the best thought I've heard so far on opening the chute. His primary reason for doing so may have been inspection.

It actually makes no sense. What the hell's he going to do if he finds a beeper? Not jump. What then?

He opened the reserve in an attempt to store the ransom. When that didn't work he opened the other reserve to cannibalize the shroud lines. It's as straight forward as that.

He ordered the knapsack and the chutes together. " 3:20pm  "He must have knapsack with money before any other steps taken. [wants money in knapsack ?]"

He might as well have said but failed to say, he wanted the money IN the knapsack.

Failing to get the knapsack he opened a chute to fashion some container for the money, and this is one of first things he did (observed by all the stews).

"It was also during this time that he complained to Mucklow that he had requested the money be delivered in a knapsack but instead it was delivered in a cloth type bank bag, which displeased him. It was at this time that Mucklow recalls he stated he would be forced to use one of the parachutes to rewrap the money since he had not been furnished the knapsack. At this same time Mucklow says she suddenly observed him having a small green paper bag, contents unknown." / Interview 11-30 Mucklow: /

Harold Anderson 11/20:  ... the hijacker even specified that the money was to be delivered in a knapsack ...

After reviewing all of the transcripts, interviews, etc. it is very clear Cooper ordered the money t0o be delivered in a knapsack - that was the whole purpose of ordering a knapsack.

It is also abundantly clear, after reviewing all of these transcripts, that the ONLY place the ransom is referred to as 'negotiable American currency' is in one radio passage radioed by Scott at 3:13pm saying: "3:13pm [PI Transcript]  Wants money in negotiable American currency denomination of bills not important." These words are therefore Scott's words and interpretation not repeated in the same form by anyone anywhere else that I can find. The ransom is referred to by other terms, by others in other documents and testimony which includes the crew interviews.

I will list all of that later... when convenient.

Tina said he later told her "$200,000 in circulated U.S. currency"
 

FLYJACK

  • Guest
Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4184 on: November 20, 2018, 08:38:31 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
He opened the reserve in an attempt to store the ransom. When that didn't work he opened the other reserve to cannibalize the shroud lines. It's as straight forward as that.

He pulled the reserve chute out of the container. this is when he discovered the container wouldn't work. why would he open another container that is exactly the same?

If he used the dummy chute for a container, where did the chute go?

Exactly, he would have done it in the cabin, why then toss the chute contents out of the plane.