Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (10.3%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.9%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.4%)
50% Cooper lived
12 (20.7%)
75% Cooper lived
12 (20.7%)
100 Cooper lived
22 (37.9%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 680900 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7695 on: February 11, 2022, 02:14:18 PM »
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Marty, et. al.: Can we get a timeline on Richard McCoy?

Here's what I've got so far:

1. Tuesday, November 23. R. McCoy misses class. Calame said he had a gas receipt for McCoy from a site about halfway to Las Vegas from Provo.
2. Wednesday, November 24. Denise Burns arrives in Provo to baby sit the kids.
3. Thursday, T-Day, November 25.
          - FBI says a classmate of Richard sees him at 10 am at his home in Provo.
          - Calame said he has corroboration from McCoy phone company that Richard made a collect call to Provo from the Tropicana Hotel in Vegas at 10 pm.
          - Calame also said he has another gas receipt for McCoy from Vegas for earlier that evening.
4. Current testimony from Denise Burns is that Richard and Karen left Provo for California during the day on the 25th, and were gone for 3-4 days.

So, is our current understanding that McCoy drove south towards Las Vegas on Tuesday, but apparently came home, and left again - this time for Vegas/California on the 25th sometime during the day but early enough to get to Vegas by evening and make a call at 10 pm and get gas, too?

McCoy did not skip class on Tuesday, and we know he was on campus because he cashed a check for five dollars at the bookstore.

On Wednesday McCoy was believed to be in SLC with his wife, but the FBI never did get 3rd party verification.

10am on Thanksgiving a witness sees McCoy at home. Denise is called in to babysit at 4pm that day.

McCoy buys gas in Provo. Then he gasses up in Cedar Falls halfway btween Provo and Vegas. He makes a phone call from the tropicana later that night and gasses up his car btw 11pm and 7am.

We also have his trip back, he stopped at the same place for gas.

We also have him writing checks that weekend too.

Calame and Rhodes were intentionally deceitful in their book. They moved McCoy's Vegas trip from Thanksgiving to Tuesday, and extended it in complete contradiction to the evidence.

The Calame and Rhodes book changed the facts intentionally, in order to create a narrative in order to sell books.

(I should say that Calame was intentionally deceitful, as we now know from the FBI files that he was aware of the evidence the FBI found. Bernie Rhodes probably knew nothing about these findings and did not have access to the FBI files.)

Didn't Tina declare that McCoy was not the guy ?
 

Offline Josh Lang

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7696 on: February 11, 2022, 02:46:55 PM »
As Gryder covers in great detail, the FBI had reason to CYA, which probably explains their claimed "evidence" of McCoy being at home. Today, no evidence. Zero. Where did it go? Oops. The only remaining/extant/verifiable piece of evidence from the FBI files was the sister-in-law's deposition, which she now denies (because her sister died and no longer needs family protection). It's all too obvious.

Mc Coy's sister in law now says they were gone for 4 days, and the kids confirm they were babysat for 4 days over Thanksgiving. All too obvious. Unless all three of them are flat-out lying. Yes, possible. Probable? Not in my estimation. Especially after watching their confession on video. If those kids are lying on the Gryder video, I would be shocked. I sense no pretense. Zero. I sense honesty, contriteness, and two kids finally able to get it off their souls.   

So, yes, I absolutely believe the sister and 2 kids rather than 50 year old missing "evidence" that probably never existed in the first place.

Enjoy the hunt, but in my mind, it's McCoy. Heck, he did the same freaking highjacking on another flight (!!!) and the myriad parallels between the two flights are irrefutably the same methods.
 

Offline Darren

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7697 on: February 11, 2022, 03:04:02 PM »
You watched one YouTube video and you know more about the case than the people who’ve spent decades researching the case?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 07:55:48 PM by Chaucer »
The Cooper Vortex - A Podcast about DB Cooper - Available on most podcast apps
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7698 on: February 11, 2022, 03:06:47 PM »
The FBI files are more than just hearsay. McCoy's finances were audited, receipts and checks were sent to the forensics lab, pictures of McCoy were given to witnesses, the mileage on McCoy's car was checked, witnesses at the gas stations were questioned, all flights to PDX were audited, military flights were checked, McCoy's fingerprints were taken and examined, McCoy's class attendance and military schedule before and after Norjak were examined, and nothing connects to D.B. Cooper.
 
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7699 on: February 11, 2022, 03:12:46 PM »
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it's McCoy. Heck, he did the same freaking highjacking on another flight (!!!) and the myriad parallels between the two flights are irrefutably the same methods.

There are some similarities. Enough that you can say they were done by the same person if that's the way you wish to lean. But, there are plenty of differences as well. McCoy was much sloppier than Cooper.

Also, not being accounted for on Thanksgiving (if that's the case) does not put one on the plane. People miss holiday get togethers all the time. It's usually not because they are out somewhere committing a felony.
 
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Offline Jay Ritchie

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7700 on: February 11, 2022, 03:17:04 PM »
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As Gryder covers in great detail, the FBI had reason to CYA, which probably explains their claimed "evidence" of McCoy being at home. Today, no evidence. Zero. Where did it go? Oops. The only remaining/extant/verifiable piece of evidence from the FBI files was the sister-in-law's deposition, which she now denies (because her sister died and no longer needs family protection). It's all too obvious.

Mc Coy's sister in law now says they were gone for 4 days, and the kids confirm they were babysat for 4 days over Thanksgiving. All too obvious. Unless all three of them are flat-out lying. Yes, possible. Probable? Not in my estimation. Especially after watching their confession on video. If those kids are lying on the Gryder video, I would be shocked. I sense no pretense. Zero. I sense honesty, contriteness, and two kids finally able to get it off their souls.   

So, yes, I absolutely believe the sister and 2 kids rather than 50 year old missing "evidence" that probably never existed in the first place.

Enjoy the hunt, but in my mind, it's McCoy. Heck, he did the same freaking highjacking on another flight (!!!) and the myriad parallels between the two flights are irrefutably the same methods.

My reading of the FBI files was that the sister in law had not provided an alibi for McCoy (she was very hazy about what had happened in November and was not clear about which weekend different family events had taken place). The two kids would be too young to remember anything.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7701 on: February 11, 2022, 06:37:57 PM »
Excellent reporting, Marty. Thank you. Bold words, too. No one has ever accused Russ Calame of lying before - and he seemed like such a nice guy when I spoke with him, circa 2009. Maybe this is why Bernie Rhodes never talked to anyone until the HBO/Minnow/BBC folks came along just before he died.
 
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Offline dudeman17

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7702 on: February 11, 2022, 07:39:32 PM »
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As Gryder covers in great detail...

I think this is more about the effect of notoriety, fame. A guy like Gryder puts up a youtube channel (I have no idea whether he's any good at examining airplane crashes), he's got a strong personality, and he gains many followers. People who enjoy his videos and hang on his every word. So he 'solves' the case, and his many fans want to believe him. That they so insistently do I think says more about their faith in him than their faith in his 'case'.

-------

By the way, congratulations to Chaucer on gaining the red squares, and thanks to him for accepting them.
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7703 on: February 11, 2022, 08:58:12 PM »
Gryder does have his charms. I am amazed that he got Chante and Rick to speak about their parents, come to CC21, and go on a road trip with him to NC to film their father's grave site and interview relatives.
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7704 on: February 13, 2022, 06:10:20 PM »
In case anyone is interested in reading the details of the FBI McCoy investigation in the 302s, the first 35 or so pages of DB Cooper Part 25 cover almost all of what Martin Andrade has been laying out recently: (There's more references to the McCoy investigation throughout Part 25 but they are mixed in with other parts of the general investigation)

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It's all in there, the mileage on McCoy's car, trying to confirm when and where he was on the 24th through the 26th, the phone call from the Tropicana, the credit card charges from the gas stations, bank account activity and balances, SAC Calame, and much much more etc.  It gives you a feel for how much effort the FBI put into investigating McCoy as potentially being the NORJAK hijacker.

Page 70 seems to be a negative finger print result, i.e. the finger prints from NORJAK do not match McCoy's.  (I understand there is no guarantee the finger prints that the FBI lifted were definitely Cooper's)  Outside of this fingerprint report, it seems like this is the early part of the investigation and I couldn't find any other conclusions where the FBI rules him out...that must be in some other DB Cooper Part, I just haven't located them yet.

Anyway, enjoy the Super bowl Vortexers...


 
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Offline JAG

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7705 on: February 14, 2022, 06:44:30 PM »
When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?





« Last Edit: February 14, 2022, 06:45:43 PM by JAG »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7706 on: February 14, 2022, 11:52:21 PM »
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When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?

Note that they had enough DNA data to make an entry into CODIS.  That should be enough information for DNA specialists such as CeCe Moore and Parablon to see if they can make some headway with it.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7707 on: February 15, 2022, 12:14:07 PM »
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When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?

Note that they had enough DNA data to make an entry into CODIS.  That should be enough information for DNA specialists such as CeCe Moore and Parablon to see if they can make some headway with it.

How much data must you have before the Codis People let you in ? A bucket or a car or truck load ?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 12:17:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7708 on: February 15, 2022, 01:42:28 PM »
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When the DNA testing is discussed in the 302s, they defined:
Q40=Tie
Q41=Tie Clip

They then use the phrase "Q40/Q41 combined for analysis"

Does that mean that whatever sample they swabbed from each item was combined into a single DNA test ?  As opposed to running an individual DNA test on each item/swab separately ? Or does it just mean that the results are combined in the report for analysis ?

Note that they had enough DNA data to make an entry into CODIS.  That should be enough information for DNA specialists such as CeCe Moore and Parablon to see if they can make some headway with it.

How much data must you have before the Codis People let you in ? A bucket or a car or truck load ?

In this day and age, I think it is less than what is visible to the naked eye.
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7709 on: February 15, 2022, 02:10:15 PM »
According to Nature, one nanogram of DNA is usually a sufficient quantity to provide good data.
 
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