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Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.7%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.5%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
13 (21%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.6%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (37.1%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 787548 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7680 on: January 11, 2022, 04:01:22 PM »
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Interesting stuff. Nicky can you give us details?

My source is a retired NWO employee at Seatac. This person has the cassette tape recording of all seattle ATC communications with 305. I will probably have to go out to seattle in the coming weeks to digitally re-record from the tapes.

ah interesting. just found this post talking about the source.
 
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7681 on: February 04, 2022, 12:17:34 PM »
Part 67 of the 302's is at the FBI Vault.  I skimmed through and here are some high points and some observations.  Most of these are in order of how I read it.

There is a lot on suspects that people called in.  I skim faster through these.
The money find is discussed in detail, as is looking at the $ for prints or mineral deposits.  One note says the money looks to have been eroded from being on the river floor or something like that
DNA is mentioned around the year 2002.  STR's, etc.
Composite B is mentioned a few times.  One witness says they definitely saw him with his sunglasses off.  They were employed by NWA. I assume Flo.
It says he sat in two seats, later on someone said he started in 18E the middle, then was in the window seat.  The FBI checked two seats for hair and got a sample.  I thought he sat in 18D the aisle then moved to 18E.  I'm curious about this one.
The cowboy and the "altercation" are mentioned
A male witness says he saw him without sunglasses on the plane
One witness mentions sagging chin (most likely Mitchell)
One witness says the composite should have a broader nose
There are time stamps from radio comms and it looks like locations

All in all this was a good read.  I just summarized, so if anyone has any other observations, I'd like to hear.
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7682 on: February 04, 2022, 02:19:01 PM »
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Part 67 of the 302's is at the FBI Vault.  I skimmed through and here are some high points and some observations.  Most of these are in order of how I read it.

There is a lot on suspects that people called in.  I skim faster through these.
The money find is discussed in detail, as is looking at the $ for prints or mineral deposits.  One note says the money looks to have been eroded from being on the river floor or something like that
DNA is mentioned around the year 2002.  STR's, etc.
Composite B is mentioned a few times.  One witness says they definitely saw him with his sunglasses off.  They were employed by NWA. I assume Flo.
It says he sat in two seats, later on someone said he started in 18E the middle, then was in the window seat.  The FBI checked two seats for hair and got a sample.  I thought he sat in 18D the aisle then moved to 18E.  I'm curious about this one.
The cowboy and the "altercation" are mentioned
A male witness says he saw him without sunglasses on the plane
One witness mentions sagging chin (most likely Mitchell)
One witness says the composite should have a broader nose
There are time stamps from radio comms and it looks like locations

All in all this was a good read.  I just summarized, so if anyone has any other observations, I'd like to hear.

got a download url ?

something is wrong. 67 pages - each page a separate download! - only 12 pages of 67 have any content -

more Cooper chaos.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 03:33:16 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7683 on: February 09, 2022, 04:31:52 PM »
"Mr. George Harrison, Northwest Airlines(NWA), Flight Operations, Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, (SeaTac) advised that he talked with Mr. Barry Halstead of Pacific Aviation at Boeing Field, Seattle, in order to secure parachutes . . . "

The above captures the times back in the 60s and 70s, and how things commonly worked even in large programs and corporations.  Things and operations could be remarkably informal, personal, involving a few people  in strategic offices ... It sometimes seemed like a small club functioning. It was like this in large corporations and in large institutions .... on any given day one or two people could be handling, directing, and dealing with very large problems, making calls, receiving calls ...

George Harrison was obviously one such personal in NWO operations who was activated to perform multiple tasks dealing with the Cooper hijacking. Actions were being set into motion, decisions being made, people being tasked to 'do this-do that' .... perhaps without moment-by-moment records being kept.

It was all very personal for those involved!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 04:32:14 PM by georger »
 
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Offline Josh Lang

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Case Solved
« Reply #7684 on: February 10, 2022, 01:33:44 PM »
Unless McCoy's sister in law and kids are all colluding in some money-making scheme, I consider the case closed. I may not be the best judge of character, but listening to the sister, and watching the McCoy kids tell their story on video, I'm convinced they are not colluding for cash, but simply getting the story off their chest with zero ulterior motive. All of the other "whataboutisms" can be easily dismissed. The hard evidence is first-hand testimony. Apparently, Gryder has an additional trove of "case closing" evidence that will be presented at some future date, and I trust he does. Case. Closed.
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Case Solved
« Reply #7685 on: February 10, 2022, 02:41:09 PM »
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Unless McCoy's sister in law and kids are all colluding in some money-making scheme, I consider the case closed. I may not be the best judge of character, but listening to the sister, and watching the McCoy kids tell their story on video, I'm convinced they are not colluding for cash, but simply getting the story off their chest with zero ulterior motive. All of the other "whataboutisms" can be easily dismissed. The hard evidence is first-hand testimony. Apparently, Gryder has an additional trove of "case closing" evidence that will be presented at some future date, and I trust he does. Case. Closed.

We'll see, Gryder was completely unaware of the extensive investigation the FBI did on McCoy, and how thoroughly they eliminated him as a suspect in the case back in '72. The results of their investigation are available on the FBI vault. The McCoy children have not presented any evidence, and nothing has been presented that wasn't already in the Calame and Rhodes book.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2022, 02:41:59 PM by andrade1812 »
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Case Solved
« Reply #7686 on: February 10, 2022, 03:26:37 PM »
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Unless McCoy's sister in law and kids are all colluding in some money-making scheme, I consider the case closed. I may not be the best judge of character, but listening to the sister, and watching the McCoy kids tell their story on video, I'm convinced they are not colluding for cash, but simply getting the story off their chest with zero ulterior motive. All of the other "whataboutisms" can be easily dismissed. The hard evidence is first-hand testimony. Apparently, Gryder has an additional trove of "case closing" evidence that will be presented at some future date, and I trust he does. Case. Closed.
I would suggest searching Martin Andrade's previous posts on this topic. He does a marvelous job of using the FBI documents to prove that McCoy was no where near the Pacific Northwest on the date of the hijacking.
“Completely unhinged”
 

Offline Josh Lang

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Re: Case Solved
« Reply #7687 on: February 10, 2022, 03:40:35 PM »
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We'll see, Gryder was completely unaware of the extensive investigation the FBI did on McCoy, and how thoroughly they eliminated him as a suspect in the case back in '72.

Gryder has studied this case for, what, 20 years? His doc film goes into great detail about the FBI investigation on McCoy, and reveals (1) the numerous errors made, (2) assumptions based on "facts" that were later debunked, and (3) flat out after-the-fact CYA.

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I would suggest searching Martin Andrade's previous posts on this topic. He does a marvelous job of using the FBI documents to prove that McCoy was no where near the Pacific Northwest on the date of the hijacking.

The sister's new confession (2021) invalidates the FBI assertion. McCoy and his wife were not at home over Thanksgiving. The sister stayed with the kids as babysitter.

 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7688 on: February 10, 2022, 05:28:10 PM »
Unfortunately for Gryder, the FBI was able to prove McCoy was home on Thanksgiving. A non-relative put him at home at 10am on Thanksgiving, and forensic evidence proved McCoy signed a credit card receipt in Provo on Thanksgiving as well.

 
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Offline Darren

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7689 on: February 10, 2022, 06:30:04 PM »
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Unless McCoy's sister in law and kids are all colluding in some money-making scheme, I consider the case closed. I may not be the best judge of character, but listening to the sister, and watching the McCoy kids tell their story on video, I'm convinced they are not colluding for cash, but simply getting the story off their chest with zero ulterior motive. All of the other "whataboutisms" can be easily dismissed. The hard evidence is first-hand testimony. Apparently, Gryder has an additional trove of "case closing" evidence that will be presented at some future date, and I trust he does. Case. Closed.

If Dan Gryder solved the case, how come no media picked up on it? Previous second hand confessions got a lot more attention. Why is it that none of the people who have extensive knowledge of the case agree with him? Why did Gryder lash out at his critics? What evidence did he present that wasn't in the book The Real McCoy? Why do you believe McCoy's kids, but not LD Cooper's niece or Walt Reca's neice or Duane Weber's widow or Jack Collins' son or Wolfgang Gossett's son or Ted Braden's stepchildren?

I was very aware of the doc before it came out, I had Gryder on my show and had lunch with him a few weeks before it came out. I was excited for it and I watched the live premiere. Hell, I'm even in it. Gryder promised me I'd be convinced he solved the case, and the entire DBC community would agree with him. I'm sure many others here have seen it. There are several people here that have over 10 years of documented involvement in the case and they don't believe Cooper and McCoy are the same person, but you watched one YouTube video and you're confident you know who DB Cooper was? Andrade1812 is the author of one of the best books on the case (Finding DB Cooper, you should probably read it) and is well respected among his peers. You shouldn't dismiss what his work.

I apologize for not being super friendly. Maybe if Gryder hadn't lashed out against me because I wouldn't publicly state he solved the case, I'd feel differently.
The Cooper Vortex - A Podcast about DB Cooper - Available on most podcast apps
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Offline JAG

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7690 on: February 10, 2022, 08:05:53 PM »
If he has a treasure trove of evidence, great--but what is he waiting for?  Although I m relatively new the vortex, by all accounts it took years to produce that video and at the end of the day, there was not hard evidence presented to back up the claims.   

Maybe Dan will present something that will be convincing.  But the thing is, you don't really need a treasure trove of evidence, you just need one thing that is irrefutable. 
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7691 on: February 10, 2022, 09:50:44 PM »
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Unless McCoy's sister in law and kids are all colluding in some money-making scheme, I consider the case closed. I may not be the best judge of character, but listening to the sister, and watching the McCoy kids tell their story on video, I'm convinced they are not colluding for cash, but simply getting the story off their chest with zero ulterior motive. All of the other "whataboutisms" can be easily dismissed. The hard evidence is first-hand testimony. Apparently, Gryder has an additional trove of "case closing" evidence that will be presented at some future date, and I trust he does. Case. Closed.

If Dan Gryder solved the case, how come no media picked up on it? Previous second hand confessions got a lot more attention. Why is it that none of the people who have extensive knowledge of the case agree with him? Why did Gryder lash out at his critics? What evidence did he present that wasn't in the book The Real McCoy? Why do you believe McCoy's kids, but not LD Cooper's niece or Walt Reca's neice or Duane Weber's widow or Jack Collins' son or Wolfgang Gossett's son or Ted Braden's stepchildren?

I was very aware of the doc before it came out, I had Gryder on my show and had lunch with him a few weeks before it came out. I was excited for it and I watched the live premiere. Hell, I'm even in it. Gryder promised me I'd be convinced he solved the case, and the entire DBC community would agree with him. I'm sure many others here have seen it. There are several people here that have over 10 years of documented involvement in the case and they don't believe Cooper and McCoy are the same person, but you watched one YouTube video and you're confident you know who DB Cooper was? Andrade1812 is the author of one of the best books on the case (Finding DB Cooper, you should probably read it) and is well respected among his peers. You shouldn't dismiss what his work.

I apologize for not being super friendly. Maybe if Gryder hadn't lashed out against me because I wouldn't publicly state he solved the case, I'd feel differently.

There are people on this site (including me) who think Cooper died in the jump as a no pull.  Consequently, anyone who was still breathing after 8:20PM PST on November 24,1971 could not be Cooper. 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 01:39:33 AM by Chaucer »
 
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Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: Case Solved
« Reply #7692 on: February 10, 2022, 11:01:18 PM »
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McCoy and his wife were not at home over Thanksgiving.

Neither was Kenny Christiansen, but I don't see anyone on any forums claiming he was the hijacker. Well, not anymore.

Seriously, I really enjoyed Dan's video. Going in, I was hoping to be convinced. I didn't know for sure who his suspect was, but I had a very strong feeling it was McCoy. I actually told Dan about 10 years ago on the DZ that I thought his suspect was McCoy. But, as much as I enjoyed the video, he didn't really bring any new information. Sure, it's interesting that McCoy's children are now saying that he was Cooper. But, they never bothered to tell us why they believe that.

I'm no closer to believing McCoy was Cooper than I was before I watched the video.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 12:17:54 AM by Parrotheadvol »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7693 on: February 11, 2022, 02:21:43 AM »
Marty, et. al.: Can we get a timeline on Richard McCoy?

Here's what I've got so far:

1. Tuesday, November 23. R. McCoy misses class. Calame said he had a gas receipt for McCoy from a site about halfway to Las Vegas from Provo.
2. Wednesday, November 24. Denise Burns arrives in Provo to baby sit the kids.
3. Thursday, T-Day, November 25.
          - FBI says a classmate of Richard sees him at 10 am at his home in Provo.
          - Calame said he has corroboration from McCoy phone company that Richard made a collect call to Provo from the Tropicana Hotel in Vegas at 10 pm.
          - Calame also said he has another gas receipt for McCoy from Vegas for earlier that evening.
4. Current testimony from Denise Burns is that Richard and Karen left Provo for California during the day on the 25th, and were gone for 3-4 days.

So, is our current understanding that McCoy drove south towards Las Vegas on Tuesday, but apparently came home, and left again - this time for Vegas/California on the 25th sometime during the day but early enough to get to Vegas by evening and make a call at 10 pm and get gas, too?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 02:27:25 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline andrade1812

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7694 on: February 11, 2022, 10:04:43 AM »
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Marty, et. al.: Can we get a timeline on Richard McCoy?

Here's what I've got so far:

1. Tuesday, November 23. R. McCoy misses class. Calame said he had a gas receipt for McCoy from a site about halfway to Las Vegas from Provo.
2. Wednesday, November 24. Denise Burns arrives in Provo to baby sit the kids.
3. Thursday, T-Day, November 25.
          - FBI says a classmate of Richard sees him at 10 am at his home in Provo.
          - Calame said he has corroboration from McCoy phone company that Richard made a collect call to Provo from the Tropicana Hotel in Vegas at 10 pm.
          - Calame also said he has another gas receipt for McCoy from Vegas for earlier that evening.
4. Current testimony from Denise Burns is that Richard and Karen left Provo for California during the day on the 25th, and were gone for 3-4 days.

So, is our current understanding that McCoy drove south towards Las Vegas on Tuesday, but apparently came home, and left again - this time for Vegas/California on the 25th sometime during the day but early enough to get to Vegas by evening and make a call at 10 pm and get gas, too?

McCoy did not skip class on Tuesday, and we know he was on campus because he cashed a check for five dollars at the bookstore.

On Wednesday McCoy was believed to be in SLC with his wife, but the FBI never did get 3rd party verification.

10am on Thanksgiving a witness sees McCoy at home. Denise is called in to babysit at 4pm that day.

McCoy buys gas in Provo. Then he gasses up in Cedar Falls halfway btween Provo and Vegas. He makes a phone call from the tropicana later that night and gasses up his car btw 11pm and 7am.

We also have his trip back, he stopped at the same place for gas.

We also have him writing checks that weekend too.

Calame and Rhodes were intentionally deceitful in their book. They moved McCoy's Vegas trip from Thanksgiving to Tuesday, and extended it in complete contradiction to the evidence.

The Calame and Rhodes book changed the facts intentionally, in order to create a narrative in order to sell books.

(I should say that Calame was intentionally deceitful, as we now know from the FBI files that he was aware of the evidence the FBI found. Bernie Rhodes probably knew nothing about these findings and did not have access to the FBI files.)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 10:41:14 AM by andrade1812 »
 
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