Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (11.1%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (7.4%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.7%)
50% Cooper lived
11 (20.4%)
75% Cooper lived
12 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
19 (35.2%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 588917 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7470 on: October 16, 2021, 12:55:07 AM »
The cockpit voice recorder was on a loop. typically, it recorded about 30 minutes and then was recorded over. even if Cooper went into the cabin before jumping, the recording would of been lost..
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7471 on: October 16, 2021, 01:05:03 AM »
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The cockpit voice recorder was on a loop. typically, it recorded about 30 minutes and then was recorded over. even if Cooper went into the cabin before jumping, the recording would of been lost..

I thot that what weve always said/thought. Thanks! Unless of course . . .  ;D
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7472 on: October 16, 2021, 01:06:46 AM »
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It seems to be exactly WHAT IT SAYS IT IS! "has in his personal possession, a copy of a voice recorder tape printout which contains all of the communications between the skyjacker, the cockpit and the Northwest Control Center, in timed sequence".

A printout is a "printout", not a actual voices.  So far there is nothing that indicates Cooper ever talked to  Northwest Control Center, in timed sequence. How would he? The inter-phone system cannot transmit over any radio to be recorded by  Northwest Control Center.

Or is someone saying there was a voice recorder on 305 that recorded all conversations of people speaking on the plane? Cooper and cockpit crew, passengers . . . and there is a printout of that extracted from the FDR?

There is nothing in the Harrison papers which suggests or confirms the existence of any recordings of Cooper. If Cooper's voice had been recorded by anyone, Harrison would have noted that. The content of anything the hijacker was saying or said would have been paramount in Harrison's account! 

What is it Cooper is supposed to have said to  Northwest Control Center?  'Get your asses in gear!' ?

This whole thing apparently references the printouts of the ARINC teletype communications which, in turn, does contain information that was passed over the ARINC radio and telephone link.  George Harrison loaned the WSHM a copy of most of these teletype transcripts (some were redacted or missing).

This is probably just an old story by someone who does not understand how the ARINC communications system operates.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7473 on: October 16, 2021, 04:41:26 AM »
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It seems to be exactly WHAT IT SAYS IT IS! "has in his personal possession, a copy of a voice recorder tape printout which contains all of the communications between the skyjacker, the cockpit and the Northwest Control Center, in timed sequence".

A printout is a "printout", not a actual voices.  So far there is nothing that indicates Cooper ever talked to  Northwest Control Center, in timed sequence. How would he? The inter-phone system cannot transmit over any radio to be recorded by  Northwest Control Center.

Or is someone saying there was a voice recorder on 305 that recorded all conversations of people speaking on the plane? Cooper and cockpit crew, passengers . . . and there is a printout of that extracted from the FDR?

There is nothing in the Harrison papers which suggests or confirms the existence of any recordings of Cooper. If Cooper's voice had been recorded by anyone, Harrison would have noted that. The content of anything the hijacker was saying or said would have been paramount in Harrison's account! 

What is it Cooper is supposed to have said to  Northwest Control Center?  'Get your asses in gear!' ?

This whole thing apparently references the printouts of the ARINC teletype communications which, in turn, does contain information that was passed over the ARINC radio and telephone link.  George Harrison loaned the WSHM a copy of most of these teletype transcripts (some were redacted or missing).

This is probably just an old story by someone who does not understand how the ARINC communications system operates.

Ive already said I dont see anything in the Harrison papers that references a cockpit recorder and/or recording Cooper-crew conversation.

Do you know of anything?

So, what does page 108 Part 62 reference?  Page 108 is part of a multi-page document  (pgs 107-111) out of Seattle dealing with Coffelt. 
 
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 04:50:42 AM by georger »
 

Offline Kari

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7474 on: October 16, 2021, 06:35:35 AM »
I'm going to try to make this as quick and to-the-point as I can, everyone asked people's opinions about DB Cooper, to tell what we know and that's exactly what I did. But to be ridiculed and slammed the way I have, to be accused of stretching the truth, exaggerating etc put it this way I'm appalled and I find it sad people poke fun and ridicule others for their opinions, for their stories. I'm only doing what people out there have asked from the public  and that is I told what I know. Not one bit of my story was exaggerated not at all, in fact I've left out a lot.  I wanted to see what other people would think because truthfully it's hard for me to believe that this guy,that these two could be DB Cooper. I'm going to tell you this and that is if it's not that them then they are in fact  the link to DB Cooper reallt is. Look at the facts I given you, I have more coincidence in my story than anyone else has brought forward and if you only saw the picture I gave you the detective it would blow you away. Am I just seeking fame, yes an no yes meaning who would not want to find the golden egg the entire world has been looking for fir the past FIFTY YEARS,  I mean seriously how cool would it be to be able to say you cracked the case right? But NO im nothing like Marla Cooper or anyone else out there just trying my hardest to piece a good story together so I can sell it an seek fame,  he'll no, WHAT I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS IN FACT ALL TRUE AND IF YOU WANT IT VALIDATED THAN BY ALL MEANS LETS DO JUST THAT, I WELCOME IT! In fact this weekend I plan on going to see Dan an Jesse with my head hung low,  to go tell them what I did,  hope an pray they can understand why an most importantly if they are the link to Cooper to confess.  Im also going to find the detective who took the report 9 yes ago, if you like have me set up for a polygraph cause you will not find one bit of me being deceptive to anything I have told, 100 percent the TRUTH. I too find all of this so unreal,  I look at the age, too far off I look at the men an think no possible way BUT I than look at what I have, the confession,  photo, no funny stuff, gold mining,  ties to Canada an Mexico, the drinks, cigarettes, the TITANIUM ROCKS etc an im sorry but that's is just too much to ignore.  Is Dan Cooper? I can't tell you he is an I can't tell you he's not. All I can say is without any certainly, he is without a doubt the link to solving this mystery once an for all. If you have any questions for me I'd be happy to answer them.  You can email me at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.    Yours truly,  "This woman "
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7475 on: October 16, 2021, 07:33:38 AM »
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Sorry I didnt mean to intrude in a private conversation you guys have going here. Carry on. 

 vote the smileycode and safe      Part 62 108 DBC 25672 in a conversation about Coffelt looking for a voice match to clear Coffelt off the suspect list, blah blah blah ...

No way Georger, you and anyone else are always welcome into any conversation/post that I am part of....I just got distracted by part 63, thanks for letting us know that it was out.  ;D

 

Offline JAG

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7476 on: October 16, 2021, 08:08:07 AM »
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The cockpit voice recorder was on a loop. typically, it recorded about 30 minutes and then was recorded over. even if Cooper went into the cabin before jumping, the recording would of been lost..

Hey Shut/All, I get the part that the last communication from Coop was at 8:05pm-ish and by the time the plane landed in Reno, it was well past the 30 minute loop.  But for clarification, is the flight interphone system communication indeed recorded in the flight voice recorder ?  In other words, if the plane would have landed before 8:35pm, would Coop's voice communication have been recorded ?  Also, is there a manual shut off of the 30 minute loop, or could the recording be stopped manually from the plane I guess is what I am asking? Pretty sure this is NOT possible today, but curious if in 1971 pilots or crew could stop the recorder from the plane?  Thanks!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 08:39:36 AM by JAG »
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7477 on: October 16, 2021, 08:31:16 AM »
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I'm going to try to make this as quick and to-the-point as I can, everyone asked people's opinions about DB Cooper, to tell what we know and that's exactly what I did. But to be ridiculed and slammed the way I have, to be accused of stretching the truth, exaggerating etc put it this way I'm appalled and I find it sad people poke fun and ridicule others for their opinions, for their stories. I'm only doing what people out there have asked from the public  and that is I told what I know. Not one bit of my story was exaggerated not at all, in fact I've left out a lot.  I wanted to see what other people would think because truthfully it's hard for me to believe that this guy,that these two could be DB Cooper. I'm going to tell you this and that is if it's not that them then they are in fact  the link to DB Cooper reallt is. Look at the facts I given you, I have more coincidence in my story than anyone else has brought forward and if you only saw the picture I gave you the detective it would blow you away. Am I just seeking fame, yes an no yes meaning who would not want to find the golden egg the entire world has been looking for fir the past FIFTY YEARS,  I mean seriously how cool would it be to be able to say you cracked the case right? But NO im nothing like Marla Cooper or anyone else out there just trying my hardest to piece a good story together so I can sell it an seek fame,  he'll no, WHAT I HAVE GIVEN YOU IS IN FACT ALL TRUE AND IF YOU WANT IT VALIDATED THAN BY ALL MEANS LETS DO JUST THAT, I WELCOME IT! In fact this weekend I plan on going to see Dan an Jesse with my head hung low,  to go tell them what I did,  hope an pray they can understand why an most importantly if they are the link to Cooper to confess.  Im also going to find the detective who took the report 9 yes ago, if you like have me set up for a polygraph cause you will not find one bit of me being deceptive to anything I have told, 100 percent the TRUTH. I too find all of this so unreal,  I look at the age, too far off I look at the men an think no possible way BUT I than look at what I have, the confession,  photo, no funny stuff, gold mining,  ties to Canada an Mexico, the drinks, cigarettes, the TITANIUM ROCKS etc an im sorry but that's is just too much to ignore.  Is Dan Cooper? I can't tell you he is an I can't tell you he's not. All I can say is without any certainly, he is without a doubt the link to solving this mystery once an for all. If you have any questions for me I'd be happy to answer them.  You can email me at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.    Yours truly,  "This woman "

Hi Kari, I haven't noticed anyone slamming you here, but maybe I missed a post.  I thought Bruce was very cordial with you and gave you advice on how to make your story more compelling.  It's an interesting story, but you haven't shared/provided anything concrete enough just yet for anyone to sink their teeth into.  Anyway, good luck this weekend with Dan and Jesse, looking forward to any updates and additional information you can provide.
 

Offline JAG

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7478 on: October 16, 2021, 08:36:36 AM »
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It seems to be exactly WHAT IT SAYS IT IS! "has in his personal possession, a copy of a voice recorder tape printout which contains all of the communications between the skyjacker, the cockpit and the Northwest Control Center, in timed sequence".

A printout is a "printout", not a actual voices.  So far there is nothing that indicates Cooper ever talked to  Northwest Control Center, in timed sequence. How would he? The inter-phone system cannot transmit over any radio to be recorded by  Northwest Control Center.

Or is someone saying there was a voice recorder on 305 that recorded all conversations of people speaking on the plane? Cooper and cockpit crew, passengers . . . and there is a printout of that extracted from the FDR?

There is nothing in the Harrison papers which suggests or confirms the existence of any recordings of Cooper. If Cooper's voice had been recorded by anyone, Harrison would have noted that. The content of anything the hijacker was saying or said would have been paramount in Harrison's account! 

What is it Cooper is supposed to have said to  Northwest Control Center?  'Get your asses in gear!' ?

This whole thing apparently references the printouts of the ARINC teletype communications which, in turn, does contain information that was passed over the ARINC radio and telephone link.  George Harrison loaned the WSHM a copy of most of these teletype transcripts (some were redacted or missing).

This is probably just an old story by someone who does not understand how the ARINC communications system operates.

Ive already said I dont see anything in the Harrison papers that references a cockpit recorder and/or recording Cooper-crew conversation.

Do you know of anything?

So, what does page 108 Part 62 reference?  Page 108 is part of a multi-page document  (pgs 107-111) out of Seattle dealing with Coffelt.

Yeah, the interesting line is the last sentence in the middle paragraph:
"This should be obtained from <redaction> if he will release it to the FBI and if not, a copy of it should be obtained"

Wouldn't the FBI already have this transcript ?  Do they think this "printout" is something that they don't already have or something new ?
 

Offline Kari

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7479 on: October 16, 2021, 08:59:59 AM »
Bruce had been a great help and very kind. Without an disrespect to anyone, im not trying to be graded on a "good" story here I just simply told my Db cooper story an told it the best I could,  although I wish I would of spent more time to edit before I posted, regardless I just wanted to put it out there an see what others thought. I guess being slammed is a bit harsh but for people to say I took allot of time in putting all the pieces together to make a good story,  or my story was too far fetched, exgerrated etc when none if it was,  seriously it really was honest to God facts.  I do however see how people can be skeptical. So I guess what I am asking is what does everyone wanna hear. I of course can't give you the real names,  yet. I can contact the detective in mount vernon and ask his permission to give his name, ID be happy to do that. Im willing to even have someone go with my husband an I an wait on the sideline, someone such as Bruce while we go confess to Dan and Jesse about all this, if they have not already found out. In fact Bruce has been told that when I go there he will be the first to know and the first to get the outcome of the visit. I don't know what else I can do to validate my story. My family along with the detective can validate. My daughter as much as she believes its him really don't want me doing any of this, is afraid I may get hurt but if need be she will always have my back.  So, for now I can say this,  the police dept where I brought the DB cooper photo to was the mount vernon police dept. I'll give them a call an see if I am allowed to give names etc an than take it from there. In the meantime if you can think of anything else, like I said just ask an ill do my best to answer you. By the way ill give u something else,  Dans grandpa was involved with the FAA an had claims to airports in Alaska. Also had some military background,  so my husband says. That is something my husband was told by them not me, just thought I would share that with you. It could mean something an it might not, oh an the cow Alice, named after a niece who was a flight attendant,  I agree pretty far fetched but the gods honest truth. Trust me EVEN I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THIS an it does sound pretty darn fabricated if u ask me but it really just is not. Now go easy on me here, im not trying to get an A on this story,  its just my story an God knows I'm not a writer ok. Take care an ill keep you posted on how the visit goes. We might even go tomorrow.  Bye for now..... Kari
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7480 on: October 16, 2021, 09:26:52 AM »
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The cockpit voice recorder was on a loop. typically, it recorded about 30 minutes and then was recorded over. even if Cooper went into the cabin before jumping, the recording would of been lost..

Hey Shut/All, I get the part that the last communication from Coop was at 8:05pm-ish and by the time the plane landed in Reno, it was well past the 30 minute loop.  But for clarification, is the flight interphone system communication indeed recorded in the flight voice recorder ?  In other words, if the plane would have landed before 8:35pm, would Coop's voice communication have been recorded ?  Also, is there a manual shut off of the 30 minute loop, or could the recording be stopped manually from the plane I guess is what I am asking? Pretty sure this is NOT possible today, but curious if in 1971 pilots or crew could stop the recorder from the plane?  Thanks!

The voice recorder had 4 microphones going into it. if Cooper used the P.A. his voice would of been recorded in the cockpit. a microphone is in the cockpit to listen to the crew and sounds that could be helpful in accidents. I don't believe any aircraft allows disconnection but newer versions allow the pilots to turn on the CVR and erase the last 2 hours. newer versions record the last 2 hours of flight.

I doubt the FAA would allow the option of turning of the CVR..
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 09:45:12 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7481 on: October 16, 2021, 12:47:06 PM »
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The cockpit voice recorder was on a loop. typically, it recorded about 30 minutes and then was recorded over. even if Cooper went into the cabin before jumping, the recording would of been lost..

Hey Shut/All, I get the part that the last communication from Coop was at 8:05pm-ish and by the time the plane landed in Reno, it was well past the 30 minute loop.  But for clarification, is the flight interphone system communication indeed recorded in the flight voice recorder ?  In other words, if the plane would have landed before 8:35pm, would Coop's voice communication have been recorded ?  Also, is there a manual shut off of the 30 minute loop, or could the recording be stopped manually from the plane I guess is what I am asking? Pretty sure this is NOT possible today, but curious if in 1971 pilots or crew could stop the recorder from the plane?  Thanks!

The voice recorder had 4 microphones going into it. if Cooper used the P.A. his voice would of been recorded in the cockpit. a microphone is in the cockpit to listen to the crew and sounds that could be helpful in accidents. I don't believe any aircraft allows disconnection but newer versions allow the pilots to turn on the CVR and erase the last 2 hours. newer versions record the last 2 hours of flight.

I doubt the FAA would allow the option of turning of the CVR..

There is no evidence that the Interphone conversations could be directly recorded on the hijacked aircraft.  However, I am aware of at least one later accident investigation in which the accident aircraft did record the Interphone conversations directly.  That is, both ends of the conversation were directly plugged into a recorder.

In the 1960s and 1970s, there was a long-running argument/litigation between the FAA and the Airline Pilots Association about recording any cockpit conversations.  I doubt if that argument has been completely resolved even today.
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7482 on: October 16, 2021, 03:47:33 PM »
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The cockpit voice recorder was on a loop. typically, it recorded about 30 minutes and then was recorded over. even if Cooper went into the cabin before jumping, the recording would of been lost..

Hey Shut/All, I get the part that the last communication from Coop was at 8:05pm-ish and by the time the plane landed in Reno, it was well past the 30 minute loop.  But for clarification, is the flight interphone system communication indeed recorded in the flight voice recorder ?  In other words, if the plane would have landed before 8:35pm, would Coop's voice communication have been recorded ?  Also, is there a manual shut off of the 30 minute loop, or could the recording be stopped manually from the plane I guess is what I am asking? Pretty sure this is NOT possible today, but curious if in 1971 pilots or crew could stop the recorder from the plane?  Thanks!

The voice recorder had 4 microphones going into it. if Cooper used the P.A. his voice would of been recorded in the cockpit. a microphone is in the cockpit to listen to the crew and sounds that could be helpful in accidents. I don't believe any aircraft allows disconnection but newer versions allow the pilots to turn on the CVR and erase the last 2 hours. newer versions record the last 2 hours of flight.

I doubt the FAA would allow the option of turning of the CVR..

There is no evidence that the Interphone conversations could be directly recorded on the hijacked aircraft.  However, I am aware of at least one later accident investigation in which the accident aircraft did record the Interphone conversations directly.  That is, both ends of the conversation were directly plugged into a recorder.

In the 1960s and 1970s, there was a long-running argument/litigation between the FAA and the Airline Pilots Association about recording any cockpit conversations.  I doubt if that argument has been completely resolved even today.

This may all be much to do about nothing. Read the entire context of page 108! At issue is a movie producer, someone making a movie, who 'somebody' has allegedly given a "printout" of a confidential cockpit voice recording - the FBI is trying to determine who gave this information to the producer, and if these allegations of a printout of cockpit voice recordings are even true!

Who gave this vital 'cockpit recording' to this producer? An FBI agent, Rataczack, ... who? Does such a document even exist ?  (Or is this alleged cockpit recording printout merely part of a movie SCRIPT) ?

The issue comes up in a 6 page document in relation to the suspect Coffelt -  and a movie about suspect Coffelt ?

Read all of the pages for context. Part 62 pgs 107-111.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 05:10:54 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7483 on: October 17, 2021, 09:11:36 AM »
The interphone and P.A. system were linked to the CVR...

§ 25.1457 Cockpit voice recorders.
(a) Each cockpit voice recorder required by the operating rules of this
chapter must be approved and must be
installed so that it will record the following:
(1) Voice communications transmitted from or received in the airplane
by radio.
(2) Voice communications of flight
crewmembers on the flight deck.
(3) Voice communications of flight
crewmembers on the flight deck, using
the airplane’s interphone system.
(4) Voice or audio signals identifying
navigation or approach aids introduced
into a headset or speaker.
(5) Voice communications of flight
crewmembers using the passenger loudspeaker system, if there is such a system and if the fourth channel is available in accordance with the requirements of paragraph (c)(4)(ii) of this section.
(6) If datalink communication equipment is installed, all datalink communications, using an approved data message set. Datalink messages must be recorded as the output signal from the communications unit that translates
the signal into usable data.


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« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 09:14:05 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7484 on: October 17, 2021, 09:20:45 AM »
The earliest CVRs used analog wire recording, later replaced by analog magnetic tape. Some of the tape units used two reels, with the tape automatically reversing at each end. Currently, the most widely used CVRs in commercial transportation are capable of recording 4 channels of audio data for a period of 2 hours. The previous requirement for a CVR to record for 30 minutes was found to be insufficient in many cases. In some accident investigations, significant parts of the pertinent audio data were missing as they occurred more than 30 minutes before the end of the recording (the tape capacity would result in audio information being overwritten every 30 min.)