Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (11.1%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (7.4%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.7%)
50% Cooper lived
11 (20.4%)
75% Cooper lived
12 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
19 (35.2%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 570349 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7380 on: September 23, 2021, 04:47:57 PM »
More detail about McPheters.
He's written some books, including a memoir in 2009 "Agent Bishop"
Agent Bishop: True Stories from an FBI Agent Moonlighting as a Mormon Bishop Paperback – Illustrated, August 8, 2009
(interior photo is probably him from younger days..attached)

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Chapter 20 is "Finding D.B. Cooper's Money" from page 136 to 140, so 4 pages.

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Samuel Michael "Mike" McPheters was a United States FBI Agent and a bishop in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who wrote a memoir entitled "Agent Bishop" (Springville, Utah: CFI, 2009).

McPheters was raised in Ketchum, Idaho. He served a mission for the LDS Church in Uruguay and Paraguay and then studied at Brigham Young University. After a short time teaching GED courses at the Treasure Valley Community College McPheters joined the FBI.

McPheters second assignment was in Miami, Florida, where he used his skills in Spanish to bust the Cesar Enrique Acosta and the Pillo Gang networks of car thieves. He was involved with the formation of the Miami SWAT team and the investigation of the D. B. Cooper hijacking as well as one of the many ultimately futile investigations of the Jimmy Hoffa disappearance.

McPheters later covered the Ute Reservation in northern Utah. He was sued by the American Civil Liberties Union in the case of Valdez v. McPheters, in which he was accused of embarrassing Ute residents of the reservation and violating the Fourth Amendment. McPheters' actions were exonerated in the case on the basis that he and BIA agent Littlewhiteman had acted on a valid arrest warrant, had valid reasons to believe that the home in question was Valdez's primary residence and that an arrest warrant gives the right to search a home to find a suspect without a specific search warrant if the home is the residence of the suspect and there is reasonable cause to believe he is there.

McPheters was also among those who argued that the accusations against H. Paul Rico were baseless.[1]

After retiring from the FBI McPheters taught at Big Bend Community College in Moses Lake, Washington. McPheters has written two novels as well Cartels and Combinations (2010) and Lit Fuse (2011), a political thriller.[2][3]

McPheters and his wife Judy are the parents of five children.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 04:54:34 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7381 on: September 23, 2021, 05:00:22 PM »
I think my claim that Brian had PCGS certify everything he has, is probably accurate

at the 2011 CooperCon when he donated a PCGS $20 for auction, Bruce Smith posted that Brian only had 6 or 7 left.

"The Cooper twenty auctioned for the benefit of the Gifford Pinchot Task Force. Brian donated the bil and has about 6 or 7 left."

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Again, nothing supports the quantities the FBI quoted for amount of money found at Tena Bar.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7382 on: September 23, 2021, 05:03:48 PM »
This bill was the $20 auctioned at Cooper Symposium 2011
it is PCGS certified. It is not visible at Heritage Auctions since it was never auctioned by them.
it is on Flyjack's list of Tena Bar bills.

good example of a serial (bill) that is not widely visible publicly. The attached picture shows how it is good condition. no apparent interior holes.
Who won this auction?
E61102414A 1963A 161 16 E

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« Last Edit: September 23, 2021, 05:40:13 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7383 on: September 24, 2021, 11:48:00 PM »
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Can you find the actual Court order dividing the money. Where was that case tried and the division physically made? In Portland? Seattle?

Is there an inventory of the found money and instructions for dividing it in that record?
« Last Edit: Today at 04:55:20 AM by georger »

Northwest, Global Indemnity, FBI  and Brian all presented claims on the money.
Apparently the lawyers agreed that FBI would get $280, and Global Indemnity and Brian would split the rest.
Judge Helen Frye had to approve the agreement.

Helen J. Frye was nominated by Carter to the US District Court of Oregon in 1979, confirmed in 1980.
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Assuming this news article is correct about the agreement. I can't seem to find a case writeup on this, because maybe there was no case?
i.e. lawyers drafted agreement and for some reason, Frye had to sign off on the agreement. Is that typical for out-of-court settlements?? (maybe?)

Looks like it got done in Portland, which makes sense since Frye was federal judge in Oregon.

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PORTLAND, Ore. — The boy who found $5,800 of hijacker D. B. Cooper’s loot six years ago would get to keep almost half of the cash under an agreement submitted to a judge Wednesday by the four parties claiming shares of the find.
Tuesday was the deadline for submitting claims on the $5,800 in decaying $20 bills found by Brian Ingram, now 14, on a Columbia River beach in Vancouver, Wash., six years ago.

The parties that filed claims on the money were Ingram and his parents, Northwest Orient Airlines, the FBI and the airline’s insurance company, Globe Indemnity Co.

Under the proposed judgment, which must be approved by U.S. District Judge Helen Frye, the federal government would keep $280 for use as evidence should anyone be prosecuted in the unsolved 1971 hijacking in which $200,000 was paid as ransom. Ingram and Globe Indemnity would split the remaining $5,520 equally.

Thanks for trying!
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7384 on: September 24, 2021, 11:56:21 PM »
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Interesting article in 2013 about the Fazios not wanting people to trespass on their land for fishing, due to liability concerns

"A survey for the Fazios by Minister & Glaeser Surveying of Vancouver determined the family owns down to 4.385 feet Columbia River Datum.

Steven Ivey, aquatic land surveyor for the state Department of Natural Resources, said Tuesday he was asked to review the survey and found no flaws.

Columbia River Datum is the measuring stick used by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to determine river height.

Ivey said the line of mean high tide is normally the boundary used to determine privately owned uplands and publicly owned beach."

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good article!
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7385 on: October 04, 2021, 04:06:24 PM »
Just a random thing while looking for living members of the Saigon Sport Parachute Club.

Harold Fostervold D-1488 was a member (according to Bob Horn and Phil Flynn D-190, both members)

died 2015
The obit spells his first name "Harald". Others used "Harold"

"one of his favorite stories was that he was 19 years old when he first flew in an airplane, but was 21 the first time he landed in one"


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Harald Fostervold, 72, of Bristol, [Conn.] passed away on January 17, 2015. Born on May 20, 1942 to the late Harald and Irma Fostervold. He is survived by son David Fostervold and his wife Stacey of Bristol, his son, Brian Fostervold and his wife Jane of Ridgefield, his daughter, Marya Fostervold; seven grandchildren, Matthew, Madison, Alexander, Julian, Jasmine, Faith & Jalen. Harald also leaves a brother Melvin Fostervold of SC. Harald graduated from Norwich University where he was active in several clubs and organizations, but his true passion was skydiving where he served as President for the Sport Parachute Club. He had over 500 jumps on 4 continents and one of his favorite stories was that he was 19 years old when he first flew in an airplane, but was 21 the first time he landed in one. He was a decorated US Army veteran and served 2 tours in Vietnam. After leaving the service, Harry remained very active with local V.F.W. Post 10361. Services will be held at Norwich University in Northfield, VT at a later date. In lieu of flowers, we ask that donations be made in Harald's name to your local V.F.W. Post.

 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7386 on: October 05, 2021, 01:29:02 AM »
Interesting. Since  Portland airport has changed since 1971, you apparently can't re-create the Cooper ticket buying and boarding experience exactly now
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“You can see the Northwest Airlines flights were out of this Concourse L,” Simonds said.

Concourse L was right off the main terminal, and on Nov. 24, 1971, Flight 305 boarded from Gate 52, which was just the second gate down the concourse from the main terminal.

For anyone more used to trekking to the North Satellite at Sea-Tac via escalators, a subway ride, and then more escalators, re-creating Cooper’s walk from ticket counter to gate is a somewhat stunning experience. It was just a few hundred yards at most.

Because of construction underway in 1971, Flight 305’s passengers went down to the lower level of the gate and onto the tarmac, and then boarded the 727 via the built-in stairs in the rear door of the jet.

Unfortunately for purists or historic preservation enthusiasts, Concourse L is gone. In its place is Concourse C, so the closest spot to the “D.B. Cooper Gate” – if anyone wants to make a pilgrimage while in the Portland airport – would probably be Gate C7.


and

Like Portland’s airport, Sea-Tac has undergone multiple phases of major construction in the past 50 years, so it’s a little tricky to find the spot where the 727 was parked on Thanksgiving Eve 1971.


Fortunately, an iconic photo of the plane during the Sea-Tac phase of hijacking was taken by Bruce McKim for the Seattle Times. The photo was probably taken via zoom lens from a spot on the old outdoor observation deck at Sea-Tac, which no longer exists. In the image, the 727 is visible, parked on a concrete area, with a portable staircase at the front left side door. A few vehicles are visible nearby, and, to the rear, a fence and a distinctive building are seen in the near distance.

Port of Seattle aviation spokesperson Perry Cooper – no relation to D.B., he jokes – got help from a longtime Port of Seattle staff member to narrow down the location of the 727 and to identify the building visible in the old photo by Bruce McKim.

The building is Prince of Peace Lutheran Church, which still stands west of the airport, but is now completely obscured by trees. Also, the zoom lens likely contributes to the church appearing in the photo to be much closer to the parked jet than it actually is in real life.


On a drive with Perry Cooper around the tarmac at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, he steered as close as he safely and legally could to the “D.B. Cooper parking spot” – at the south end of what’s now the center runway.

“What we’re understanding is that they would have landed on what is now our center runway and it would have come down to the connection between a taxiway in the very end and the tail, south end of that runway,” Perry Cooper told KIRO Radio. “So, at the time it was 34-Left, or 16-Right. And right now, it’s now the center runway, since we’ve added the new runway to the west.”
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7387 on: October 05, 2021, 12:52:30 PM »
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Interesting. Since  Portland airport has changed since 1971, you apparently can't re-create the Cooper ticket buying and boarding experience exactly now
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“You can see the Northwest Airlines flights were out of this Concourse L,” Simonds said.

Concourse L was right off the main terminal, and on Nov. 24, 1971, Flight 305 boarded from Gate 52, which was just the second gate down the concourse from the main terminal.

For anyone more used to trekking to the North Satellite at Sea-Tac via escalators, a subway ride, and then more escalators, re-creating Cooper’s walk from ticket counter to gate is a somewhat stunning experience. It was just a few hundred yards at most.

Because of construction underway in 1971, Flight 305’s passengers went down to the lower level of the gate and onto the tarmac, and then boarded the 727 via the built-in stairs in the rear door of the jet.

Unfortunately for purists or historic preservation enthusiasts, Concourse L is gone. In its place is Concourse C, so the closest spot to the “D.B. Cooper Gate” – if anyone wants to make a pilgrimage while in the Portland airport – would probably be Gate C7.


and

Like Portland’s airport, Sea-Tac has undergone multiple phases of major construction in the past 50 years, so it’s a little tricky to find the spot where the 727 was parked on Thanksgiving Eve 1971.


Fortunately, an iconic photo of the plane during the Sea-Tac phase of hijacking was taken by Bruce McKim for the Seattle Times. The photo was probably taken via zoom lens from a spot on the old outdoor observation deck at Sea-Tac, which no longer exists. In the image, the 727 is visible, parked on a concrete area, with a portable staircase at the front left side door. A few vehicles are visible nearby, and, to the rear, a fence and a distinctive building are seen in the near distance.

Port of Seattle aviation spokesperson Perry Cooper – no relation to D.B., he jokes – got help from a longtime Port of Seattle staff member to narrow down the location of the 727 and to identify the building visible in the old photo by Bruce McKim.

The building is Prince of Peace Lutheran Church, which still stands west of the airport, but is now completely obscured by trees. Also, the zoom lens likely contributes to the church appearing in the photo to be much closer to the parked jet than it actually is in real life.


On a drive with Perry Cooper around the tarmac at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, he steered as close as he safely and legally could to the “D.B. Cooper parking spot” – at the south end of what’s now the center runway.

“What we’re understanding is that they would have landed on what is now our center runway and it would have come down to the connection between a taxiway in the very end and the tail, south end of that runway,” Perry Cooper told KIRO Radio. “So, at the time it was 34-Left, or 16-Right. And right now, it’s now the center runway, since we’ve added the new runway to the west.”

I believe that the passengers who were getting off at Portland left the aircraft through the left front door by means of roll-up stairs.  There is a blurb somewhere by the NWA Portland Station Chief that he accompanied two minor children, who were traveling alone, from the aircraft by means of those stairs.

The passengers boarding at Portland, including Cooper, entered the aircraft through the aft stairs.  As a result, the NWA Station Chief missed his chance to see Cooper.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7388 on: October 06, 2021, 01:20:54 PM »
Some of the newspaper accounts from 2/13/80 report the amount of money found (as told to them by FBI) as "more than $3000"

this is much different than the $5800 sometimes mentioned.

from fbi file 43 page 218
The Daily News, Longview WA 2/13/80

3rd paragraph: "The FBI said Tuesday the discovery of more than $3,000 in badly deteriorated $20 bills was made Sunday..."



attached.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7389 on: October 06, 2021, 01:23:52 PM »
Another waffling quote in that article from Bill Baker, assistant agent in charge at the Portland FBI office

"The packaging and numbered sequence indicate the bills have not been separated and are in much the same order as when given to the hijacker"


What does "much the same order" mean?

Why the caveat?

Sounds like someone is bullshitthing they put a qualifier: "much the same order"

Why not say "the same order"?

What's the difference between the two possible phrases? Why use the one with more words?


Also says:
"Because of the poor condition of the bills, the exact amount of recovered money is unknown, pending laboratory examination, the FBI said"

Was there a subsequent (much later) FBI lab report on amount?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 01:26:10 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7390 on: October 06, 2021, 10:27:03 PM »
Found another reference to "$3000" being the amount found at Tena Bar

This is in a FBI report dated Aug 4. 1980
it's talking about a suspect who's moving money between bank accounts. getting passport.
Birth certificate may be from Anchorage. (more info about the suspect on adjacent pages, but I'm more interesting in the $3000 number being used by an FBI agent on Aug 4. 1980

How did we get a number different than "around $3000" ???

WFO is acronym for "Washington Field Office"

Fbi file 45 page 406

"It is noted by WFO that the recovered money of approximately $3000 was found near Vancouver, Washington. In addition, <redacted> has apparently used make-up and or other disguises in past bank robberies to make himself look as though he had dark/swarthy skin. <redacted> alsow was known to wear sunglasses during a bank robbery as part of his disguise and is a heavy smoker.

<redacted> is a graduate of the <redacted> and worked on a contract basis for Boeing Aircraft until <redacted>. He was a <redacted> in the U.S. Army"

« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 10:28:58 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7391 on: October 06, 2021, 10:49:33 PM »
Another good newspaper article from fbi file  43 page 257

FBI Baker is quoted.

The Oregonian, by Leverett Richards, apparently 2/13/80

"Baker said the money the Ingrams' found had not been counted. At first, the amount recovered was estimated at about $4,000 but 'we have revised our estimate to several thousand dollars'"

Also: the "random packaging" that Carr retold:

"Baker said the money was bundled into packages of several sizes at the time of the hijacking. 'to make it appear that it was randomly done, as if it was done in a hurry.' Because of that, the actual amount could not be estimated he said."


this seems bizarre to me...since we have no report detailing any "repackaging" although Carr seemed to say that also.

Seems clear to me that all the estimates that are being used today, for amount of money found, are wrong?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 11:17:52 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7392 on: October 08, 2021, 07:43:26 PM »
The 727 air drop tests in Takhli Thailand have been gone over to death.

However, this report from someone at airliners.net in 2015 is the first time I've read about another CIA/Army test, that apparently *did not* remove the air stairs.

Who knows if true. But interesting.

He joined airliners.net 2 years before the post.

He says he saw this done in Marana. Marana air field was where the CIA had a clandestine operation, Intermountain Aviation was also involved). In Arizona.

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posted by BravoOne:
An interesting experiment was done by the US Army with CIA oversight where they removed the cabin to stairway door (AKA refrigerator door) and had jumpers launch of the stairway in flight. At about 140Kts, flaps 20 you could get about four guys on the stairway and it would float in an open position with enough stability to launch the guys safely or at least within the acceptable risk zone. The problem of course was when the stairway only had one or two guys on it the tendency for it to drift up became problematic. I saw this down [sp? done] with a ATA 727 and later saw good film footage done using a Pan Am 727-100 filmed from both inside and outside the aircraft.

The ATA flights were done down in Marana. Don't know where the Pan Am flights occurred or if this was ever put to use. Very risky business when involve airliners in military ops IMO.

[Edited 2015-06-16 02:57:12]

this article seems to have first-person confirmation of various air drop tests at Marana (not necessarily 727 though)

"The CIA also used Marana airfield to develop new ways to accurately drop supplies and equipment at low altitudes, day or night."

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“We would drop cement blocks or 55 gallon drums of water or whatever to simulate cargo drops,” Kelly said. “Sometimes it was on Marana airfield. Other times we’d fly around Arizona, and they’d just pick a spot that they had predetermined. We’d dump the cargo out, and wherever it landed it landed. They’d have guys there to retrieve it.”
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 07:44:58 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7393 on: October 08, 2021, 07:59:25 PM »
This still image from the movie "The Pursuit of DB Cooper" shows the airstairs down with just one jump (cooper) on the stairs.
The jumper taking video had already jumped off backwards.

Interestingly, the fabric stair sides have been removed?

Don't know what airspeed or whether they did something special to keep the airstair down in flight like this, or if it was just weight of the 2 jumpers

I forget if someone who did this stunt talked about how they put the stunt together
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 08:00:13 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #7394 on: October 08, 2021, 08:07:30 PM »
Howard White over at DZ.com describes the jump shot for the movie this way:
Maybe dudeman has some thoughts.
The credits on IMDb don't seem fully accurate.

Dudeman: Says Carl Boenish was one of the photographers (with Kevin Donnelly and Ray Cottingham)
Jerry Meyers the jumper (or is the spelling Jerry Myers)


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posted by howardwhite march 31,2009
I confess to confusion about the credits on IMDb.

The pictures are from the March, 1981, Parachutist, which says the three photographers were Kevin Donnelly, Carl Boenish, and Ray Cottingham.

The jumper in the exit shot is identified as Jerry Meyers, wearing (according to Donnelly) a "Security Maxi-pig" with a chest-mount container, supposedly the money pouch.

Other jumpers participating in the shoot were identified as Dean Westgaard and Bill Edwards.
It's a mystery to me why none of these people are identified on IMDb, nor do the IMDb pages for Boenish, Cottingham and Donnelly reflect any participation in this movie.

It's not clear where this was shot. The Parachutist story describes how Kevin nearly fell out accidentally while spotting when "...the plane was over Yosemite Park, some 20 miles from their target area."

Could it be there was another set of shots, and this one was not used? Is this another DB mystery?:S
I expect to see Kevin at the reunion in Raeford in May and will ask him.

HW