Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1402436 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6345 on: April 17, 2021, 11:26:59 PM »
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Did Cooper say that he wanted to go to Phoenix after he was told Mexico City was a no go?

Always consult the crew interviews in matters like this - - -

Mucklow says that she got one of her pay sheets and had a pencil and took down the following instructions from the hijacker:
Going to Mexico City - - or any place in Mexico - - nonstop - - gear down - - flaps down - - don’t go over 10,000 feet altitude - - all cabin lights out - - do not again land in the United States for fuel or any other reason - - no one is to come behind the first class section.â€
Mucklow forwarded this information to the cockpit (via the intercom) and the hijacker also indicated he wanted takeoff made with the rear door open and the stairs extended at takeoff. He had also indicated that in addition to the passengers, all of the hostesses would be allowed to exist the aircraft prior to taking off.
…
Mucklow says that after refueling and takeoff was imminent, the flight crew called on the intercom and reported that due to the flying conditions the hijacker had set, the fuel load would not permit them to fly nonstop to Mexico City, or anywhere as far away as Mexico for that matter. The crew suggested the fuel range would allow San Francisco. The hijacker countered with Ploenix, Arizona but the flight crew said ‘no’ due to the distance. The hijacker stated the aircraft  could make Yuma, Arizona or Reno, Nevada and he stated he preferred landing at Reno, Nevada. The crew called back and approved Reno and said they would proceed to Reno, Nevada.   
…
Anderson:
After the plane had landed and the delivery of the money and parachutes, the hijacker forwarded through hostess Mucklow the following instructions: (1) … going to Mexico City non-stop or if they could not reach Mexico City then anywhere in Mexico, (2) … fly with landing gear and flaps down, (3) not fly above 10,000 feet, (4) … lights out in the cabin area, (5) they were not to land in the USA for fuel or any other reason, (6) nobody is allowed aft of the first class curtain, (7) … after taking off hostess Mucklow will be allowed to go to the cockpit, (8) the rear door is to be open and the stairs extended for taking off.
We informed the hijacker that under the conditions that he had stipulated, it would be impossible to reach Mexico City and he countered with the possible destination of Phoenix. He then mentioned a number of destinations which were considered and rejected which included Yuma, Sacramento, and finally Reno was reached as the final destination we would go to…
Anderson stated that the departure from Seattle was made at 7:36pm and at about 8:05 pm he called the hijacker on the interphone and inquired if he could hear ok and whether there was anything they could do for him? The hijacker responded in the negative and the crew decided against any more tests or contacts until they arrived at Reno, Nevada, that the hijacker was on board for the duration of the flight. Upon approaching Reno Airport, they tried to contact the hijacker with no response and they notified their company of the same.
. . .
Mucklow-II
During the flight from Portland to Seattle Mucklow had light conversation with the hijacker. She asked him where he was from but he became upset  and said he didn’t want to answer that. (Odd way of putting it). She steered the conversation into remarking ‘that if they were going to Cuba airline personnel were advised to warn passengers against buying Cuban rum or cigars because US Customs would confiscate them when they returned to the United States.  (Mucklow says) the hijacker laughed and said ‘they weren’t going to Cuba, but she would like where they were going’. 
…

 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6346 on: April 17, 2021, 11:29:04 PM »
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Did Cooper say that he wanted to go to Phoenix after he was told Mexico City was a no go?

My understanding is that Cooper asked about Phoenix and Yuma. If this is accurate, the Yuma suggestion is odd given that Yuma is not exactly well known. There is a joint military base in Yuma and Boeing has been testing aircraft there for many years.

Yuma was merely one of a number of cities C brought up - see crew interviews. 
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6347 on: April 17, 2021, 11:45:10 PM »
Thanks, georger. Cooper seemed confident that the plane could make it to at least Arizona - much like he was about taking off with the stairs.

Why Yuma or Phoenix though? Just because they were as close to Mexico as possible? Why not San Diego? Or LA?
“Completely unhingedâ€
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6348 on: April 17, 2021, 11:51:34 PM »
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Thanks, georger. Cooper seemed confident that the plane could make it to at least Arizona - much like he was about taking off with the stairs.

Why Yuma or Phoenix though? Just because they were as close to Mexico as possible? Why not San Diego? Or LA?

Basically, the parachutes answer those questions.  All indications are that Cooper intended to jump shortly after takeoff.  So the talk about various locations was just disinformation.
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6349 on: April 18, 2021, 12:14:27 AM »
I find it odd that Cooper would mention they could make either Yuma or Reno. These two cities are quite a distance from each other. If accurate it's an odd statement. Also, if the jet can't make Phoenix it's not going to be able to make Yuma either.

Regardless, it's abundantly clear that this was all a ruse to buy him a head start. Consider that he had nothing tied to him as the jet took off from Seattle. It appears that he didn't want to tip off Mucklow that he may jump immediately after take-off. It further appears that as soon as Tina was sent to the cockpit that DBC scrambled to attach everything to his person and get ready to jump.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 12:15:08 AM by EU »
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6350 on: April 18, 2021, 01:22:42 AM »
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I find it odd that Cooper would mention they could make either Yuma or Reno. These two cities are quite a distance from each other. If accurate it's an odd statement. Also, if the jet can't make Phoenix it's not going to be able to make Yuma either.

Regardless, it's abundantly clear that this was all a ruse to buy him a head start. Consider that he had nothing tied to him as the jet took off from Seattle. It appears that he didn't want to tip off Mucklow that he may jump immediately after take-off. It further appears that as soon as Tina was sent to the cockpit that DBC scrambled to attach everything to his person and get ready to jump.

Thats your version.

"Hancock says the hijacker began unpacking one chute and cutting cords almost as soon as the chutes were brought on board." .......................  Mucklow explains this was Cooper solving the no backpack' problem and Mucklow explains it further .... all before the passengers were even off the plane.

I will chose their version over yours every time.  Why would anyone select your version over theirs!?  That may be the biggest social media mystery in the current era, 50 years after the fact! People making things up. Sadly there is no way to stop this. The consequences are real however. 
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 01:36:55 AM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6351 on: April 18, 2021, 10:41:46 AM »
GEORGER, stop being so fucking stupid and argumentative.

Read Tina's 302. She clearly describes DBC sitting in 18 E with the bank bag in one chair and the attache' case in the other as they take-off from Seattle.

Then Tina is ordered up front.

This means that DBC had to get up from the chair, don the main, attach the dummy reserve in some manner, attach the money bag and attach the attache' case--because they're all gone--and jump.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6352 on: April 18, 2021, 02:05:32 PM »
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GEORGER, stop being so fucking stupid and argumentative.

Read Tina's 302. She clearly describes DBC sitting in 18 E with the bank bag in one chair and the attache' case in the other as they take-off from Seattle.

Then Tina is ordered up front.

This means that DBC had to get up from the chair, don the main, attach the dummy reserve in some manner, attach the money bag and attach the attache' case--because they're all gone--and jump.

. . .
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6353 on: April 18, 2021, 02:12:57 PM »
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GEORGER, stop being so fucking stupid and argumentative.

Read Tina's 302. She clearly describes DBC sitting in 18 E with the bank bag in one chair and the attache' case in the other as they take-off from Seattle.

Then Tina is ordered up front.

This means that DBC had to get up from the chair, don the main, attach the dummy reserve in some manner, attach the money bag and attach the attache' case--because they're all gone--and jump.

. . .

Wonderful. Again, read Tina's 302. Not Flo's. Tina's.

Now we're being sold a bill of goods that DBC was sitting in 18 E while wearing the main parachute? How about you ask 377 about this?

Think.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6354 on: April 18, 2021, 02:55:40 PM »
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GEORGER, stop being so fucking stupid and argumentative.

Read Tina's 302. She clearly describes DBC sitting in 18 E with the bank bag in one chair and the attache' case in the other as they take-off from Seattle.

Then Tina is ordered up front.

This means that DBC had to get up from the chair, don the main, attach the dummy reserve in some manner, attach the money bag and attach the attache' case--because they're all gone--and jump.

. . .

Wonderful. Again, read Tina's 302. Not Flo's. Tina's.

Now we're being sold a bill of goods that DBC was sitting in 18 E while wearing the main parachute? How about you ask 377 about this?

Think.

For Georger's sake, let me point out that only Tina saw Cooper on the flight from Seattle to Reno.  Flo and Alice got off in Seattle.

Somewhere Tina says that she saw Cooper put on one of the backpack parachutes like he knew how to do it.  Tina also says that Cooper was wrapping some of the shroud lines from one of the reserves around his waist the last time she saw him.  And that was when Tina closed the curtains to the rear cabin, per Cooper's directions, as she headed to the cockpit.  No one saw Cooper after that.
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6355 on: April 18, 2021, 03:06:38 PM »
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GEORGER, stop being so fucking stupid and argumentative.

Read Tina's 302. She clearly describes DBC sitting in 18 E with the bank bag in one chair and the attache' case in the other as they take-off from Seattle.

Then Tina is ordered up front.

This means that DBC had to get up from the chair, don the main, attach the dummy reserve in some manner, attach the money bag and attach the attache' case--because they're all gone--and jump.

. . .

Georger, you should give FlyJack credit for posting the above FBI document over on DZ earlier today.  You didn't come up with it.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6356 on: April 18, 2021, 03:25:05 PM »
I think Flo is the only one stating Cooper put the back chute on.
Several, if not all of them make statements about cutting the reserve.
Tina was showing Cooper how to operate the stairs.
I believe she makes a statement on the HBO doc about Cooper getting frustrated about the stairs and sends her up front saying he would do it himself. she see's him tying the money to his waist.

A statement is made by the pilots after Tina returns from the cabin and says she thinks he's about to jump. the ground says something about the sooner the better so they can land. that's why they made the reference to Cooper jumping. he didn't fool anyone if you ask me or appear to try..

When you see someone with a parachute on and tying things to ones self, you tend to believe an exit is coming..
 
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6357 on: April 18, 2021, 04:21:47 PM »
Yuma had a population right around 30,000 in 1971. Not a large, well-known airport.

Perhaps, Cooper chose it because it is as close to the Mexican border as possible. It does seem an odd choice considering other larger, better know locations he could have had in mind.
“Completely unhingedâ€
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6358 on: April 18, 2021, 04:31:06 PM »
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GEORGER, stop being so fucking stupid and argumentative.

Read Tina's 302. She clearly describes DBC sitting in 18 E with the bank bag in one chair and the attache' case in the other as they take-off from Seattle.

Then Tina is ordered up front.

This means that DBC had to get up from the chair, don the main, attach the dummy reserve in some manner, attach the money bag and attach the attache' case--because they're all gone--and jump.

. . .

Georger, you should give FlyJack credit for posting the above FBI document over on DZ earlier today.  You didn't come up with it.

BS . you are full; of bs. I merely posted FJ's clip from the page to save time.  Any NEW news about your stupid placard ANALIS?  Any more complaints ?  :rofl:
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 04:41:47 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6359 on: April 18, 2021, 04:36:39 PM »
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I think Flo is the only one stating Cooper put the back chute on.
Several, if not all of them make statements about cutting the reserve.
Tina was showing Cooper how to operate the stairs.
I believe she makes a statement on the HBO doc about Cooper getting frustrated about the stairs and sends her up front saying he would do it himself. she see's him tying the money to his waist.

A statement is made by the pilots after Tina returns from the cabin and says she thinks he's about to jump. the ground says something about the sooner the better so they can land. that's why they made the reference to Cooper jumping. he didn't fool anyone if you ask me or appear to try..

When you see someone with a parachute on and tying things to ones self, you tend to believe an exit is coming..

Agree - in addition Flo's comment about C putting on sun glasses during that period clearly indicates C did not arrive and was seen by people without sunglasses, his eyes and eye color were seen, contrary to the EU narrative about C always having sun glasses on, from the airport to him departing the plane! No document says that. EU needs to start reading documents instead of making his own stories up . . .   here is the whole page from which FJ posted a piece earlier today.

Cooper's eye color is a fundamental part of every witnesses' testimony regarding Description.

Like every other suspect flipper, its obvious what EU is trying to do. EU is faced with dismissing his suspects' 'blue eyes' so EU's move is to claim Nobody saw Cooper's eyes at all!  It's like Blevins' claim 'cabins of airplanes bounce light around so nothing appears normal - height, weight, eye color, even skin color' !  EU, R99, and RMB all use similar tactics.     
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 06:02:28 PM by georger »