Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1389101 times)

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6135 on: February 25, 2021, 11:10:55 PM »
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It's hard to say reading the term. Bourbon and 7up is never used here or north. bourbon and soda isn't either. soda is to the south, pop to the north and west can be soda pop. everyone knew seven and seven. Georger, Bruce, Eric, R99 etc. do you guys use the term bourbon and soda/7up ?

I seem to remember the term "Scotch and water" from somewhere in my earlier days.  The term "Bourbon and branch" seems to have been popular in such places as Texas and the mid-west.  I think it was former President Truman's favorite drink and he was from western Missouri. 
 
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6136 on: February 26, 2021, 01:04:37 AM »
7&7 was ubiquitous in the 1970s. Seagram’s Seven and 7-Up.

I’d be shocked if Cooper ordered any other combo.
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6137 on: February 26, 2021, 09:35:51 AM »
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It's hard to say reading the term. Bourbon and 7up is never used here or north. bourbon and soda isn't either. soda is to the south, pop to the north and west can be soda pop. everyone knew seven and seven. Georger, Bruce, Eric, R99 etc. do you guys use the term bourbon and soda/7up ?

I seem to remember the term "Scotch and water" from somewhere in my earlier days.  The term "Bourbon and branch" seems to have been popular in such places as Texas and the mid-west.  I think it was former President Truman's favorite drink and he was from western Missouri.

Anyone know how drinks were ordered on planes back in 71?  Today there are set menus.   This is a rabbit hole that may go nowhere, but I'm picturing Cooper in the seat and he orders.

Does he say: I want a whisky.  I want a whiskey.  I want a bourbon. I want a scotch.  I want a 7 and 7.  etc.  There are slight intricacies here.  I do like to drink, and I've spent a lot of time in bourbon country (not a fan of bourbon), and people order very differently depending on where they live.  Some order the drink (whiskey), some the variant (bourbon, scotch), and some the brand (7, Jack, Jim, etc).

Ordering a 7 and 7 says to me it might have been a favorite drink of his, versus saying "I'll have a whiskey".  It does seem a little classier to order bourbon, but maybe not back in 71.  I guess if he had ordered a PBR then we might be thinking of him as much more blue collar (although today all the hipsters seem to like PBR).

As for Rolling Rock, I always liked it.  My grandfather's favorite beer.
 
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Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6138 on: February 26, 2021, 09:46:32 AM »
Ew, PBR.  Now that one always gave me the scoots. Lol

« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 09:59:11 AM by haggarknew »
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6139 on: February 26, 2021, 10:03:27 AM »
How bout up your way, Andrade? (You do live in Minnesota don't you?) Have you ever heard anyone ask for a bourbon and soda?


 

Offline DBfan57

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6140 on: February 26, 2021, 10:47:44 AM »
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You're right Shutter. I forgot about Seagram 7. Dad also drank plenty of that. I  remember sneaking drinks of that when dad wasn't looking. He used to also drink Blatz(sp.?) beer. (Yuk) Dad drank Blatz cause it was cheap. Was Cooper's drink made with soda water or soda pop?
   A bourbon and soda would be Jack Daniels or Jim Beam as examples of bourbon and club soda!!!!!  If you ask for soda in any bar you get club soda.  Tonic water is used with Gin
 

Offline haggarknew

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6141 on: February 26, 2021, 10:52:29 AM »
I thought I posted this earlier...(but me being me (not very savvy with today's technology lol) I must have screwed up........If nothing else, at least I have learned a new word, ubiquitous. (Meaning everywhere, am I  correct?)  Thank you Chaucer!
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6142 on: February 26, 2021, 11:06:47 AM »
I consider the manner in which he paid for his drink--and plane ticket--much more compelling than what he ordered. More to the point, we know he paid with a $20 bill for the plane ticket. We also know that he paid for his drink with a $20 bill. We also know that he didn't have anything smaller than a twenty because Flo asked him if he did.

So why is this important?

It tells me that he did not visit a restaurant or sundry shop before the flight that day. After all, if he had he would have been left with change which he apparently didn't have. Of course, one could argue that he used a credit card, but that seems unlikely for a small purchase when he has cash on-hand and that it leaves a paper trail.

Now when you factor in that he had a pack of Sky Chef matches, I believe that we can deduce that he did not acquire them at the Sky Chef restaurant at PDX. After all, he didn't eat at the restaurant as noted above, and it seems unlikely that he would simply grab a pack of matches when he didn't need them--remember, he was using matches with a white cover that he eventually depleted.

All of this leads me to deduce that he flew through or from a city with a Sky Chef restaurant. I favor JFK as I've noted previously.

Now, it is possible that he acquired the matches from a meal on a previous flight. But that, too, suggests a flight long enough to have served a meal--again the East Coast seems likely.

All of this is reasonable to deduce from how he paid for his drink and not so much what he drank--which I believe he ordered as a "bourbon and 7-Up."
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 11:10:20 AM by EU »
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6143 on: February 26, 2021, 12:46:57 PM »
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I consider the manner in which he paid for his drink--and plane ticket--much more compelling than what he ordered. More to the point, we know he paid with a $20 bill for the plane ticket. We also know that he paid for his drink with a $20 bill. We also know that he didn't have anything smaller than a twenty because Flo asked him if he did.

So why is this important?

It tells me that he did not visit a restaurant or sundry shop before the flight that day. After all, if he had he would have been left with change which he apparently didn't have. Of course, one could argue that he used a credit card, but that seems unlikely for a small purchase when he has cash on-hand and that it leaves a paper trail.

Now when you factor in that he had a pack of Sky Chef matches, I believe that we can deduce that he did not acquire them at the Sky Chef restaurant at PDX. After all, he didn't eat at the restaurant as noted above, and it seems unlikely that he would simply grab a pack of matches when he didn't need them--remember, he was using matches with a white cover that he eventually depleted.

All of this leads me to deduce that he flew through or from a city with a Sky Chef restaurant. I favor JFK as I've noted previously.

Now, it is possible that he acquired the matches from a meal on a previous flight. But that, too, suggests a flight long enough to have served a meal--again the East Coast seems likely.

All of this is reasonable to deduce from how he paid for his drink and not so much what he drank--which I believe he ordered as a "bourbon and 7-Up."

Interesting way to look at it EU.

I wonder what the paydays were that month.  They certainly didn't do direct deposit back then.  Could Cooper have maybe been paid in 20's on Wednesday, or gone to the bank and made a withdrawal thinking that it might be his last?  Definitely odd that he did not have smaller bills on him.  Even today a wallet would likely have smaller bills than 20's, at least a few.

How much was the bourbon and 7, or was it free and he just wanted to tip?
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6144 on: February 26, 2021, 12:47:32 PM »
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It's hard to say reading the term. Bourbon and 7up is never used here or north. bourbon and soda isn't either. soda is to the south, pop to the north and west can be soda pop. everyone knew seven and seven. Georger, Bruce, Eric, R99 etc. do you guys use the term bourbon and soda/7up ?

I seem to remember the term "Scotch and water" from somewhere in my earlier days.  The term "Bourbon and branch" seems to have been popular in such places as Texas and the mid-west.  I think it was former President Truman's favorite drink and he was from western Missouri.

Anyone know how drinks were ordered on planes back in 71?  Today there are set menus.   This is a rabbit hole that may go nowhere, but I'm picturing Cooper in the seat and he orders.

Does he say: I want a whisky.  I want a whiskey.  I want a bourbon. I want a scotch.  I want a 7 and 7.  etc.  There are slight intricacies here.  I do like to drink, and I've spent a lot of time in bourbon country (not a fan of bourbon), and people order very differently depending on where they live.  Some order the drink (whiskey), some the variant (bourbon, scotch), and some the brand (7, Jack, Jim, etc).

Ordering a 7 and 7 says to me it might have been a favorite drink of his, versus saying "I'll have a whiskey".  It does seem a little classier to order bourbon, but maybe not back in 71.  I guess if he had ordered a PBR then we might be thinking of him as much more blue collar (although today all the hipsters seem to like PBR).

As for Rolling Rock, I always liked it.  My grandfather's favorite beer.

I don't remember anything particular about the ordering, but the liquor came in a small single drink bottle.  If the mixer was a soft drink, it would have been in a can.  If an unusual mixer was ordered, it may have been provided by the stews from a larger bottle in the liquor cart.  And there was a liquor cart on long flights.

The drinks may have been free in first class, but if there was a charge it would not be more than a couple of dollars even in coach.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 12:51:59 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6145 on: February 26, 2021, 12:56:38 PM »
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I consider the manner in which he paid for his drink--and plane ticket--much more compelling than what he ordered. More to the point, we know he paid with a $20 bill for the plane ticket. We also know that he paid for his drink with a $20 bill. We also know that he didn't have anything smaller than a twenty because Flo asked him if he did.

So why is this important?

It tells me that he did not visit a restaurant or sundry shop before the flight that day. After all, if he had he would have been left with change which he apparently didn't have. Of course, one could argue that he used a credit card, but that seems unlikely for a small purchase when he has cash on-hand and that it leaves a paper trail.

Now when you factor in that he had a pack of Sky Chef matches, I believe that we can deduce that he did not acquire them at the Sky Chef restaurant at PDX. After all, he didn't eat at the restaurant as noted above, and it seems unlikely that he would simply grab a pack of matches when he didn't need them--remember, he was using matches with a white cover that he eventually depleted.

All of this leads me to deduce that he flew through or from a city with a Sky Chef restaurant. I favor JFK as I've noted previously.

Now, it is possible that he acquired the matches from a meal on a previous flight. But that, too, suggests a flight long enough to have served a meal--again the East Coast seems likely.

All of this is reasonable to deduce from how he paid for his drink and not so much what he drank--which I believe he ordered as a "bourbon and 7-Up."

Interesting way to look at it EU.

I wonder what the paydays were that month.  They certainly didn't do direct deposit back then.  Could Cooper have maybe been paid in 20's on Wednesday, or gone to the bank and made a withdrawal thinking that it might be his last?  Definitely odd that he did not have smaller bills on him.  Even today a wallet would likely have smaller bills than 20's, at least a few.

How much was the bourbon and 7, or was it free and he just wanted to tip?

If I'm not mistaken the drink was $2.
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Offline DBfan57

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6146 on: February 26, 2021, 03:31:51 PM »
It was a bourbon and soda!!  Why do you twist it to a bourbon and 7 up?  Are you nuts about 7 up?  Soda is CLUB SODA. Never heard of it?  Ever hit a bar in your life?  I was 14 when he jumped.  I know how the old boys ordered a drink back in the day.  I worked in restaurants as a cook.  A bourbon and soda is a bourbon and soda.  Not that it matters or will solve this case.  But the poster that wants to twist the facts is dead wrong. Why dont you try and get Muckler or the other sky girl who is hidden somewhere in S Carolina to tell  you what soda mean?  It means soda   Not 7 UP   Even now if someone goes into a bar and is at a social event and does not want to drink, perhaps he or she is an alcoholic?  They usually order a club soda.  Awful tasting stuff I will grant you that.  But no sugar. 

On a more important topic, just how intensive was the search in Canada?  I would think that would be important based on the french comic book and the use of the term "American currency".  Did the Canadian authorities go after this with the same enthusiasm that the US did?  Somehow I doubt it.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2021, 03:46:27 PM by DBfan57 »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6147 on: February 26, 2021, 03:57:51 PM »
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It was a bourbon and soda!!  Why do you twist it to a bourbon and 7 up?  Are you nuts about 7 up?  Soda is CLUB SODA. Never heard of it?  Ever hit a bar in your life?  I was 14 when he jumped.  I know how the old boys ordered a drink back in the day.  I worked in restaurants as a cook.  A bourbon and soda is a bourbon and soda.  Not that it matters or will solve this case.  But the poster that wants to twist the facts is dead wrong. Why dont you try and get Muckler or the other sky girl who is hidden somewhere in S Carolina to tell  you what soda mean?  It means soda   Not 7 UP   Even now if someone goes into a bar and is at a social event and does not want to drink, perhaps he or she is an alcoholic?  They usually order a club soda.  Awful tasting stuff I will grant you that.  But no sugar. 

On a more important topic, just how intensive was the search in Canada?  I would think that would be important based on the french comic book and the use of the term "American currency".  Did the Canadian authorities go after this with the same enthusiasm that the US did?  Somehow I doubt it.

Who the F is this clown?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline DBfan57

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6148 on: February 26, 2021, 04:07:12 PM »
If you mean me, I am talking to the guy that said it was 7 up and not soda. I am trying to tell him that there is actually something called club soda that was and is still used often in bars.  So I am the clown!  I also just heard on that IA podcast that its mentioned that the FBI did in fact order those cigarette butts to be destroyed back in early 70s?  That is my next joke
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #6149 on: February 26, 2021, 04:11:05 PM »
Nice deduction on the 20s, EU.