Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (12.2%)
25% Cooper lived
3 (6.1%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (4.1%)
50% Cooper lived
10 (20.4%)
75% Cooper lived
10 (20.4%)
100 Cooper lived
18 (36.7%)

Total Members Voted: 44

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 480879 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5895 on: January 03, 2021, 02:12:29 PM »
Let me clarify, FJ posted believing the reason Cooper asked for the matchbook back was due to his writing on the matchbook and shows a 302 with the quote I posted. my take is it doesn't suggest Cooper wrote on the matchbook. it suggests notes were placed in the matchbook. that's the reason I used the term "singular" as it suggests in the 302..

This is the quote from the 302

"He used a match cover which was used to convey notes"

It doesn't suggest Cooper wrote on the cover. the "notes" were in the match cover. none of it is similar to anything written previously or stated by Tina. it tosses a wrench into things, as usual.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 03:07:33 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5896 on: January 03, 2021, 04:35:32 PM »
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Let me clarify, FJ posted believing the reason Cooper asked for the matchbook back was due to his writing on the matchbook and shows a 302 with the quote I posted. my take is it doesn't suggest Cooper wrote on the matchbook. it suggests notes were placed in the matchbook. that's the reason I used the term "singular" as it suggests in the 302..

This is the quote from the 302

"He used a match cover which was used to convey notes"

It doesn't suggest Cooper wrote on the cover. the "notes" were in the match cover. none of it is similar to anything written previously or stated by Tina. it tosses a wrench into things, as usual.

According to Tina, Cooper didn't ask for the matchbook back.  She placed it in the ash tray in his seat or an adjacent seat and later saw Cooper pick the matchbook out of that ash tray and put it in his pocket.

How could a match book cover be used to convey a note?  This doesn't make sense.

There seems to be some creative writing in the document that FJ posted and quotes.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 04:37:47 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5897 on: January 03, 2021, 04:43:10 PM »
I agree, I'm just giving my two cents about the quote. a lot of it doesn't make sense. I will post what Tina stated about the empty matchbook. she was going to throw it away and he stopped her and took it back from what I recall.

Creative writing is in a book. this was from a 302. possibly, misinformation vs creative writing. just like a lot of events that seem to grow with time..
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 05:03:21 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5898 on: January 03, 2021, 04:49:10 PM »
"At one time she lit a cigarette for him with the last match in the paper match folder. when she attempted to discard the empty card folder, the hijacker decisively took it from her and placed it into one of his pockets, stating he didn't want her to throw it away"
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 04:51:29 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5899 on: January 03, 2021, 05:21:32 PM »
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"At one time she lit a cigarette for him with the last match in the paper match folder. when she attempted to discard the empty card folder, the hijacker decisively took it from her and placed it into one of his pockets, stating he didn't want her to throw it away"

Tosaw, last paragraph on page10 of his book:

"When the matchbook he [i.e., Cooper] had given her [i.e., Tina] was empty, she put it in the ashtray in the arm of the seat and went to get some company matches.  While she was getting them from the cabinet behind his seat, she saw him take the empty book from the ashtray and put it in his pocket."

Creative writing can appear in any document at any time.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5900 on: January 03, 2021, 05:36:38 PM »
You believe creative writing is in evidence by law enforcement vs misinformation or being wrong?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 05:37:25 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5901 on: January 03, 2021, 05:47:05 PM »
I'm trying to understand what you are saying..Tosaw's book is correct and the 302 statements shortly after the crime are not true? which is the creative writing and not evidence?

Isn't creative writing intentional or untrue, made up, created or a different version?
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5902 on: January 03, 2021, 07:14:51 PM »
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Let me clarify, FJ posted believing the reason Cooper asked for the matchbook back was due to his writing on the matchbook and shows a 302 with the quote I posted. my take is it doesn't suggest Cooper wrote on the matchbook. it suggests notes were placed in the matchbook. that's the reason I used the term "singular" as it suggests in the 302..

This is the quote from the 302

"He used a match cover which was used to convey notes"

It doesn't suggest Cooper wrote on the cover. the "notes" were in the match cover. none of it is similar to anything written previously or stated by Tina. it tosses a wrench into things, as usual.

Why would he use a matchbook to hold notes? That does not make sense nor does writing notes inside a matchbook make a lot of sense either. That’s why this is unusual. I envisioned him writing a note inside the matchbook like Robert Deniro did with Ray Liotta’s character when he was giving him info on where to go for a hit.  You can’t write much inside but you can write some.   I’ve seen it in other movies too. Not sure what this means for Cooper.
 

Offline fcastle866

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5903 on: January 03, 2021, 07:19:11 PM »
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In the light of Mr William Mitchell's interview with KOMO TV in November 2019, I wonder whether Mr Mitchell would be amenable to enquiries relating to his testimony in 1971 to the FBI and in 2013 to the Washington State Historical Society, with appropriate respect for his privacy.

To this end, is there anyone on this forum who knows (and is willing to share) Mr Mitchell's middle initial (the initial mentioned in Geoffrey Gray's book may not be correct), and his zip code? thus permitting an enquiry by snail mail, to which he would be free to respond, or not.

I felt that Colbert’s show purposely gave the wrong middle initial. I sense Mitchell may not recognize the guy. Remember he was just some guy on a plane until Mitchell was off. Tina and Flo and maybe Alice are the ones who might know. Might.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5904 on: January 03, 2021, 07:25:11 PM »
This isn't a movie and states notes meaning more than one. did he have multiple matchbooks to write in. none of it makes sense.

What does make sense is the original statements made. Cooper gave a note to Flo and then instructed then from that point on. Tina stated somewhere in using a pay sheet to write on. Cooper requested all the notes to be returned to him and nothing about returning any matchbooks? the matchbooks would be in the cockpit.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 07:26:29 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5905 on: January 03, 2021, 07:41:26 PM »
You would think Flo would mention matchbooks coming into the cockpit as notes were be made about the hijacking.

There are things they hold back but I doubt they remove anything to cover for the weeding out of suspects. the news will often say someone was shot and murdered but don't say how or where they were shot. sometimes they leave out of a shooting they were also stabbed. I think they would have a file with that information separate so it doesn't get out.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5906 on: January 03, 2021, 07:51:52 PM »
Tina's story does change in the second interview..I will quote it shortly..
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5907 on: January 03, 2021, 07:59:29 PM »
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I'm trying to understand what you are saying..Tosaw's book is correct and the 302 statements shortly after the crime are not true? which is the creative writing and not evidence?

Isn't creative writing intentional or untrue, made up, created or a different version?

The answer to your question is "yes".  Both of these versions can't be correct and, who knows, there may be additional versions of the same thing out there somewhere.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5908 on: January 03, 2021, 08:00:41 PM »
It was at this point the hijacker instructed her to tell the pilot he wanted the note and envelope back that he had given to the other stewardess. he also wanted the empty matchbook cover back from which he had been lighting his cigarettes and had thrown into the back pouch of the seat in front as she would always do. she indicated he had another book of matches the cover was blue and said sky chef from which she had pulled matches to light his cigarettes. he retained this book of matches..

This was her second interview which contradicts her first statement.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 08:02:08 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #5909 on: January 03, 2021, 08:03:23 PM »
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This isn't a movie and states notes meaning more than one. did he have multiple matchbooks to write in. none of it makes sense.

What does make sense is the original statements made. Cooper gave a note to Flo and then instructed then from that point on. Tina stated somewhere in using a pay sheet to write on. Cooper requested all the notes to be returned to him and nothing about returning any matchbooks? the matchbooks would be in the cockpit.

According to all available information, Cooper only requested that the original hijack note, which he wrote, be returned to him.  There is nothing to suggest that Cooper was aware that Flo, who was in the cockpit, was writing down the information that Tina was passing to her over the inter-phone.