Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1423219 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4980 on: November 03, 2019, 04:05:15 PM »
Quote
I guess decal means a thin plastic foil of some kind, with adhesive on the back ?

Similar to a bumper sticker...
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4981 on: November 03, 2019, 11:56:04 PM »
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Quote
I guess decal means a thin plastic foil of some kind, with adhesive on the back ?

Similar to a bumper sticker...

AP story -
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4982 on: November 04, 2019, 12:54:34 AM »
This is what I read from the latest documents surrounding the placard...

The placard found by Hicks appears to be a placard from the stairwell. they say it's outside near the rear door. the rear door is the bulkhead/pressure door leading to the stairs. two sets of blueprints were supplied to the FBI showing exactly where the placards were on the aircraft marked in black...the Hicks placard doesn't make sense to be on the exterior of the aircraft. the stairs are considered outside. even the video states the same that I provided earlier.

On 5/2/79 another placard is found in Skamania County. it doesn't say if it was from the inside or outside but goes further saying it as a 99 percent chance of being the from a 727. the color doesn't match and confuses the FBI in regards to how long it's been on the ground.

To date we have no documentation of any placards missing other than noting them missing after the testing over the ocean. even these are conflicting. it says two days after the hijacking. documents show the testing was done on January 6, 1972.

we also know from testing that very little wind or disturbance takes place in the stairwell. how would a placard come off so easy? these decals should be expected to work vs fail. I would assume similar to stickers put on vehicles being towed. they are very hard to get off. hopefully, more documents will follow....regardless to the newspaper. the decal is very thin and not a heavy plastic. it very obvious to see this..
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 12:56:48 AM by Shutter »
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4983 on: November 04, 2019, 01:18:00 AM »
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This is what I read from the latest documents surrounding the placard...

The placard found by Hicks appears to be a placard from the stairwell. they say it's outside near the rear door. the rear door is the bulkhead/pressure door leading to the stairs. two sets of blueprints were supplied to the FBI showing exactly where the placards were on the aircraft marked in black...the Hicks placard doesn't make sense to be on the exterior of the aircraft. the stairs are considered outside. even the video states the same that I provided earlier.

On 5/2/79 another placard is found in Skamania County. it doesn't say if it was from the inside or outside but goes further saying it as a 99 percent chance of being the from a 727. the color doesn't match and confuses the FBI in regards to how long it's been on the ground.

To date we have no documentation of any placards missing other than noting them missing after the testing over the ocean. even these are conflicting. it says two days after the hijacking. documents show the testing was done on January 6, 1972.

we also know from testing that very little wind or disturbance takes place in the stairwell. how would a placard come off so easy? these decals should be expected to work vs fail. I would assume similar to stickers put on vehicles being towed. they are very hard to get off. hopefully, more documents will follow....regardless to the newspaper. the decal is very thin and not a heavy plastic. it very obvious to see this..

The article quotes someone saying that it could not have come off the airplane unless the rear "door" was open.  This probably should be rear "stairs" open since it couldn't separate from the airliner unless the stairs were opened to some extent. 

The article also states that it was found by a hunter near a logging road. 

It appears that a lot of people didn't get their facts straight with respect to the placard or placards or whatever.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4984 on: November 04, 2019, 06:22:49 AM »
Where are you reading this from.....?

The newspaper attached to the 302's say the placard could of dropped from any 727...

I don't see a reference to a hunter finding it by a logging road?

The 302 surrounding the Hicks find..."this decal is located on the outside of the aircraft near the rear door"

The 302 also says it could of come off when the stairs were lowered due to a pressure change...

The last couple 302's surround another placard and begin with " enclosed for Minneapolis is an airplane decal provided by the Skamania county sheriff's office, Washington. this decal was found by a logger in north Skamania county on 5/2/79"

Also, the 99 percent reference sound more like it was surrounding the 727 and not 305. it states "this decal came from the same aircraft hijacked by Cooper" it doesn't say it was from the hijacked plane...
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 06:56:19 AM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4985 on: November 04, 2019, 06:36:28 AM »
The placard was not thick or heavy. that's why it's referred to as a decal or marker. it didn't have pop rivets holding it either or no pressure change or opening the stairs would cause it to come off. they would of known it was deliberate. the only placards I've seen with screws or pop rivets are metal placards.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4986 on: November 04, 2019, 07:40:12 AM »
Contrary to what some believe surrounding placards on the outside of aircraft are very noticeable and common. they are on the exterior of doors, aft doors, cargo doors etc. they are also used to show the emergency exit for the cockpit on the exterior of the plane. I would suspect they are applied before the clear coat is put on the plane. the one's that fall off could be long after manufacture. the sky would litter them all over the place if this was the case. even the space shuttle has them all over the exterior.
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4987 on: November 04, 2019, 09:03:53 AM »
To be precise, the 302 dated 7/31/79 states:

"advised that there is a ninety-nine per cent chance that this decal came from the same aircraft hijacked by D.B. Cooper."

When I first read this my understanding was that it meant the "decal" literally came from the same jet. That said, it probably means that it came from the same aircraft to the extent that it came from a 727.

Also, the fact that the decal was colored maroon and not bright red, as noted by NWO, appears to indicate that this decal is not from 305. Rather, it appears to be from another 727 of a different airline. What a remarkable coincidence if that is the case.

Finally, even though we know nothing about the decal, it is not likely that the deal is an airstair placard such as the one attributed to 305.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4988 on: November 04, 2019, 09:27:51 AM »
Lots of placards are on the exterior of the plane. they fail to mention what type of placard it really was. hopefully a followup file will tell the rest of the story. I think it's similar to a lot of the parachutes found noted in the 302's that never made the news. another chute found is noted in the latest file with the placard all the way at the end of the file....
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 09:30:26 AM by Shutter »
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4989 on: November 04, 2019, 11:30:07 AM »
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Where are you reading this from.....?

The newspaper attached to the 302's say the placard could of dropped from any 727...

I don't see a reference to a hunter finding it by a logging road?

The 302 surrounding the Hicks find..."this decal is located on the outside of the aircraft near the rear door"

The 302 also says it could of come off when the stairs were lowered due to a pressure change...

The last couple 302's surround another placard and begin with " enclosed for Minneapolis is an airplane decal provided by the Skamania county sheriff's office, Washington. this decal was found by a logger in north Skamania county on 5/2/79"

Also, the 99 percent reference sound more like it was surrounding the 727 and not 305. it states "this decal came from the same aircraft hijacked by Cooper" it doesn't say it was from the hijacked plane...

I referred to the newspaper article linked by Georger in post #4981 above.  Read paragraphs 5 and 6 of that article.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4990 on: November 04, 2019, 02:22:50 PM »
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Here is a TAG team photo looking up from the stairs ... is this the stair release handle near the rear door to the right, with some kind of instruction placard above it? Is this the area where the Cooper placard would have come from?

The link indicates that picture is of the ventral stairs of a Martin 202 and not a Boeing 727.
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Offline Robert99

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4991 on: November 04, 2019, 02:28:27 PM »
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Here is a TAG team photo looking up from the stairs ... is this the stair release handle near the rear door to the right, with some kind of instruction placard above it? Is this the area where the Cooper placard would have come from?

The link indicates that picture is of the ventral stairs of a Martin 202 and not a Boeing 727.

Oh great! Taken in California Utah or China?  2:40pm or 9:30am ?   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Who knows.  But Martin 202's were not operated by major airlines in the early 1970s.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4992 on: November 04, 2019, 07:57:55 PM »
A lot of the newspaper reports surrounding the placard were early into the investigation and prior to the FBI receiving blueprints showing exactly where they were placed.
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4993 on: November 05, 2019, 12:08:54 AM »
FJ concedes:

" There is nothing to indicate that Hick's placard "type" came from inside a 727. The FBI claimed it matched one located on the outside the aircraft and it could have come from any 727. They wouldn't say that if it came from inside. The ground crew also stated that they fall off in normal operating conditions.. Why say that if it came from the inside.

While I can't confirm it came from outside (still looking), all the evidence indicates it was not located inside on the 727 unless we find some new evidence.

Further, the Hick's placard may have come from a 737 with AFT AIRSTAIRS.. we don't know. "

All part numbers and location statements previously issued by FJ are now tentatively or permanently null and void.
 
Grammatical edits by Georger of FJ's post is from corrupted Franclish to standard English. :D
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 12:14:24 AM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4994 on: November 05, 2019, 12:32:01 AM »
If we are to point fingers it appears the FBI also believes the placard was outside...they were told it was outside by the rear door..that's the bulkhead door to the stairs which is basically outside of the cabin. the biggest problem is zero pictures of any plane with this placard.

The other strange thing is the lack of proof a placard was even missing. this was mentioned years later and it's full of contradicting statements in the 302's and the newspaper. it was noticed missing two days later, it was missing six weeks later. the placard was found 12 miles east of Kelso.

We do know the emergency handle with the lock wire is next to the normal stair release in the stairwell. the stairs can be operated from the ground underneath the plane as well and has a emergency pump if the hydraulics fail. you can see that in the diagram below..
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