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I took a couple of nice close-up pics of 377's Cooper twenty recently. 377 asked me if I'd make them available to view. Given the limitations of file sizes on the forum, I've posted two pics on a separate page I created on my website.

They're viewable at:

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Post to the other thread! Sheesh!

GEORGER the last time I checked, a real Cooper twenty could be considered a clue or evidence in the case.

Ignore the troll ...

GO POST YOUR SHT ABOUT MONEY ... IN THE MONEY THREAD!

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G wrote: "Were Hayden's chutes fitted with emergency pinger ?"


Almost certainly not. I have NEVER seen 121.5 pinger beacons inside civilian rigs. Civilians carry beacons externally. Breitling even made one built into a wristwatch. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Might the FBI have planted beacons inside Norman's rigs? Doubtful. If the one at the WA History Museum was never opened after Norjak it could be unpacked and inspected. The packing card should show its complete inspection and repack history.

377

Military chutes definitely had 121.5/243.0 pingers in them during the 1960s/1970s in southeast Asia.  Cooper may well have been aware of that fact when he refused the USAF chutes.

So far no text that says he discussed this with Mucklow or anyone else, whatever he knew, whatever his background. All we have is his statement he thought the chutes were coming from McChord (when the chutes were late to arrive). He noted McChord was only 20 minutes away!

It sounds from that he would have accepted McChord chutes if they had been sent? It sounds from that he would have accepted ANY CHUTES FROM ANYWHERE! The issue of pingers is never discussed and no discussion about pingers is anywhere in any text we have, so far as I know ... ?

If FJ is right and Cooper did use Cossey's chute (not Hayden's) that would explain Cossey being central to everything so far as the FBI was concerned. Their concern is the chute COOPER USED.

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G wrote: "Were Hayden's chutes fitted with emergency pinger ?"


Almost certainly not. I have NEVER seen 121.5 pinger beacons inside civilian rigs. Civilians carry beacons externally. Breitling even made one built into a wristwatch. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Might the FBI have planted beacons inside Norman's rigs? Doubtful. If the one at the WA History Museum was never opened after Norjak it could be unpacked and inspected. The packing card should show its complete inspection and repack history.

377

I think the timing and the date are critical here - 11/26 two days AFTER the hijacking at 3:30PM. in the afternoon. The pinger going off is tracked as moving first NEAR EVERGREEN AIRPORT, JUST EAST OF VANCOUVER, WASHINGTON, THEN HEARD SECOND TIME NEAR REYNOLDS ALUMINUM PLANT WEST OF VANCOUVER. HEARD FOR APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES then SIGNAL FADED OUT. 

So heard at locations separated by miles traveling east-to-west all in the space of five minutes. How fast is it moving?  What is the distance between these two locations spanned in the space of five minutes ? It almost has to be airborne doesn't it ?

 

These incidents probably don't mean anything.

Emergency Locator Beacons were just becoming mandatory for general aviation aircraft in 1971.  There were all sorts of problems with them being unintentionally activated or being activated briefly for testing purposes.  If I remember correctly, the FAA finally listed a specific time period (about five minutes at the top of the hour I think) for testing purposes.  One of the things every general aviation pilot was encouraged to do was to check that their ELT was off when shutting down.

Sine none of the chutes given Cooper were military, I dont see pingers being an issue - a priori.

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G wrote: "Were Hayden's chutes fitted with emergency pinger ?"


Almost certainly not. I have NEVER seen 121.5 pinger beacons inside civilian rigs. Civilians carry beacons externally. Breitling even made one built into a wristwatch. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Might the FBI have planted beacons inside Norman's rigs? Doubtful. If the one at the WA History Museum was never opened after Norjak it could be unpacked and inspected. The packing card should show its complete inspection and repack history.

377

Military chutes definitely had 121.5/243.0 pingers in them during the 1960s/1970s in southeast Asia.  Cooper may well have been aware of that fact when he refused the USAF chutes.

So far no text that says he discussed this with Mucklow or anyone else, whatever he knew, whatever his background. All we have is his statement he thought the chutes were coming from McChord (when the chutes were late to arrive). He noted McChord was only 20 minutes away!

It sounds from that he would have accepted McChord chutes if they had been sent? It sounds from that he would have accepted ANY CHUTES FROM ANYWHERE! The issue of pingers is never discussed and no discussion about pingers is anywhere in any text we have, so far as I know ... ?

If FJ is right and Cooper did use Cossey's chute (not Hayden's) that would explain Cossey being central to everything so far as the FBI was concerned. Their concern is the chute COOPER USED.

There was no point in discussing pingers with Mucklow since she wouldn't have any information about them in the first place.  Hayden's chutes arrived fairly early and the chest packs were delivered by the Washington state police about the same time the money was delivered by a Seattle detective both of which were after 5 PM.  The Hayden chutes, the chest packs, and the money were almost immediately taken out to the aircraft by Al Lee and the Seattle detective.  In my judgement, the idea that Cossey delivered two back packs is a myth.  But Cossey did pack all four chutes that were put on the airliner.

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G wrote: "Were Hayden's chutes fitted with emergency pinger ?"


Almost certainly not. I have NEVER seen 121.5 pinger beacons inside civilian rigs. Civilians carry beacons externally. Breitling even made one built into a wristwatch. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Might the FBI have planted beacons inside Norman's rigs? Doubtful. If the one at the WA History Museum was never opened after Norjak it could be unpacked and inspected. The packing card should show its complete inspection and repack history.

377

I think the timing and the date are critical here - 11/26 two days AFTER the hijacking at 3:30PM. in the afternoon. The pinger going off is tracked as moving first NEAR EVERGREEN AIRPORT, JUST EAST OF VANCOUVER, WASHINGTON, THEN HEARD SECOND TIME NEAR REYNOLDS ALUMINUM PLANT WEST OF VANCOUVER. HEARD FOR APPROXIMATELY FIVE MINUTES then SIGNAL FADED OUT. 

So heard at locations separated by miles traveling east-to-west all in the space of five minutes. How fast is it moving?  What is the distance between these two locations spanned in the space of five minutes ? It almost has to be airborne doesn't it ?

 

These incidents probably don't mean anything.

Emergency Locator Beacons were just becoming mandatory for general aviation aircraft in 1971.  There were all sorts of problems with them being unintentionally activated or being activated briefly for testing purposes.  If I remember correctly, the FAA finally listed a specific time period (about five minutes at the top of the hour I think) for testing purposes.  One of the things every general aviation pilot was encouraged to do was to check that their ELT was off when shutting down.

Sine none of the chutes given Cooper were military, I dont see pingers being an issue - a priori.

They are not.

I think it's somewhere in connection to a device to pickup the VOR signal. they go on to mention one should be put in the chutes if the problem ever happens again..and that's what they did with McCoy..

The pingers in 1971 were transmitters only if I remember correctly.  And they operated only on 121.5/243.0.  So they would not be able to receive VORs.

However, today military pilots have devices attached to their parachute harness that can transmit and receive on 121.5/243.0 and automatically transmit their GPS position on those frequencies.  And the voice and GPS information is encoded.

I think it's somewhere in connection to a device to pickup the VOR signal. they go on to mention one should be put in the chutes if the problem ever happens again..and that's what they did with McCoy..

We dont know what Dawson and his guys had in mind ... it could have been something as simple as a little foil chaff that would show up on radar. I mean McChord could pack the chutes any way they wanted, with pingers or chaff or who knows what else ...