Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.5%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.3%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.2%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (22.2%)
100 Cooper lived
23 (36.5%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 1410589 times)

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4635 on: February 12, 2019, 03:19:31 PM »
The EU narrative requires that Cooper landed on or near Tina Bar - that the R99 flight path scenario is true.

The problem is: there is nothing nor has anything ever surfaced to support R99's flight path scenario. And those who were tracking the plane say R99's scenario 'absolutely did not happen'.

Meanwhile we can get a Cooper landing "in" the Columbia basin by a mere change in the time of his jump. We have known this since 2008 with several flight path dropzone maps being drawn which reflect actual FBI wind data supplied in 2008. Sluggo developed one revised drop map, TK did another clear back in 2008 ... so maybe its time to revisit those earlier discussions ... because they all supply the means by which Cooper money could show up on the shoreline of the Columbia including at Tina Bar!

The Key to this problem is: did the pilots do anything to determine their position once oscillations began - and the answer to that is a resounding "NO". We know, for example, that Rataczak conveyed this information to Tosaw in 1980 after the discovery of Cooper money on Tina Bar; and this information became the basis for Tosaw's operation,  diving and raking operations looking for Cooper artifacts south of Tina Bar! Rataczak's confidential information was vital to the Tosaw operation. Years later Rataczak's information morphs into a new form: 'the bump occurred between 5 to 10 minutes after our last contact with Cooper at 8:05' - a phrase we are all familiar with.

But, the flight comms Transcript records that 305 reported oscillations fairly quickly to the ground, once they began. Moreover, an interesting discussion ensued between 305 and the ground about that and the 'flight configuration 305 was flying and fuel consumption' ... culminating in the "BUMP" followed by many urgent communicatioins! We pondered all of this on a private website in 2008; Sluggo was part of that discussion.

Maybe its time to revisit some of this now that EU has brought up the issue of the flight path, in support of his theory? Maybe we can finally close the book on this part of the Cooper story?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 03:56:39 PM by georger »
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4636 on: February 12, 2019, 03:54:50 PM »
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The EU narrative requires that Cooper landed on or near Tina Bar - that the R99 flight path scenario is true.

The problem is: there is nothing nor has anything ever surfaced to support R99's flight path scenario. And those who were tracking the plane say R99's scenario 'absolutely did not happen'.

Meanwhile we can get a Cooper landing "in" the Columbia basin by a mere change in the time of his jump. We have known this since 2008 with several flight path dropzone maps being drawn which reflect actual FBI wind data supplied in 2008. Sluggo developed one revised drop map, TK did another clear back in 2008 ... so maybe its time to revisit those earlier discussions ... because they all supply the means by which Cooper money could show up on the shoreline of the Columbia including at Tina Bar!

The Key to this problem is: did the pilots do anything to determine their position once oscillations began - and the answer to that is a resounding "NO". We know, for example, that Rataczak conveyed this information to Tosaw in 1980 after the discovery of Cooper money on Tina Bar; and this information became the basis for Tosaw's operation,  diving and raking operations looking for Cooper artifacts south of Tina Bar! Rataczak's confidential information was vital to the Tosaw operation. Years later Rataczak's information morphs into a new form: 'the bump occurred between 5 to 10 minutes after our last contact with Cooper at 8:05' - a phrase we are all familiar with.

But, 305 reported oscillations beginning fairly quickly to the ground once they began. An interesting discussion ensued between 305 and the ground ... culminating in the "BUMP"! We pondered all of this on a private website in 2008; Sluggo was part of that discussed nobody has ever shared.

Maybe its time to revisit some of this now that EU has brought this issue to the surface with his theory?

I will weigh in on this.

Firstly, R99's flight path does NOT have to be accurate for my theory to be accurate. To clarify, it is possible that everything I have theorized about the excess packets in the dummy reserve, burying the bank bag and excess packets, retrieving the ransom and accidentally leaving three packets behind, etc. can still be accurate with Cooper landing near Lake Merwin. However, this would then entail a scenario where Cooper hikes or drives with these items to Tena Bar to bury the stuff. That said, I do not believe that scenario took place. I do believe R99's flight path is accurate. I do believe that Cooper landed very near Tena Bar.

Also, you mention there is nothing to support R99's flight path. That is not accurate. I would argue the money find itself lends itself to proving the veracity of his flight path. The proof has been staring us right in the face since 1980.

Regarding the totality of R99's theory, I will defer to the theory itself because R99 does an outstanding job of explaining it.
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4637 on: February 12, 2019, 04:01:56 PM »
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The EU narrative requires that Cooper landed on or near Tina Bar - that the R99 flight path scenario is true.

The problem is: there is nothing nor has anything ever surfaced to support R99's flight path scenario. And those who were tracking the plane say R99's scenario 'absolutely did not happen'.

Meanwhile we can get a Cooper landing "in" the Columbia basin by a mere change in the time of his jump. We have known this since 2008 with several flight path dropzone maps being drawn which reflect actual FBI wind data supplied in 2008. Sluggo developed one revised drop map, TK did another clear back in 2008 ... so maybe its time to revisit those earlier discussions ... because they all supply the means by which Cooper money could show up on the shoreline of the Columbia including at Tina Bar!

The Key to this problem is: did the pilots do anything to determine their position once oscillations began - and the answer to that is a resounding "NO". We know, for example, that Rataczak conveyed this information to Tosaw in 1980 after the discovery of Cooper money on Tina Bar; and this information became the basis for Tosaw's operation,  diving and raking operations looking for Cooper artifacts south of Tina Bar! Rataczak's confidential information was vital to the Tosaw operation. Years later Rataczak's information morphs into a new form: 'the bump occurred between 5 to 10 minutes after our last contact with Cooper at 8:05' - a phrase we are all familiar with.

But, 305 reported oscillations beginning fairly quickly to the ground once they began. An interesting discussion ensued between 305 and the ground ... culminating in the "BUMP"! We pondered all of this on a private website in 2008; Sluggo was part of that discussed nobody has ever shared.

Maybe its time to revisit some of this now that EU has brought this issue to the surface with his theory?

I will weigh in on this.

Firstly, R99's flight path does NOT have to be accurate for my theory to be accurate. To clarify, it is possible that everything I have theorized about the excess packets in the dummy reserve, burying the bank bag and excess packets, retrieving the ransom and accidentally leaving three packets behind, etc. can still be accurate with Cooper landing near Lake Merwin. However, this would then entail a scenario where Cooper hikes or drives with these items to Tena Bar to bury the stuff. That said, I do not believe that scenario took place. I do believe R99's flight path is accurate. I do believe that Cooper landed very near Tena Bar.

Also, you mention there is nothing to support R99's flight path. That is not accurate. I would argue the money find itself lends itself to proving the veracity of his flight path. The proof has been staring us right in the face since 1980.

Regarding the totality of R99's theory, I will defer to the theory itself because R99 does an outstanding job of explaining it.

R99's theory is a "theory" - not a fact! Experts who were involved in tracking 305 have long said it did not happen!

If you are in touch with the Almighty and have superior information which replaces everything known on Earth - post it!

And you keep using your conclusions as your assumptions. Prove your assumption first otherwise its just your opinion and it will never be more than your opinion. The rest of us must rely on FACTS.   

People keep coming to Cooper forums with "what they would have done" - I want to know what Cooper did or did not do and what actually happened or did not happen. I could care less about people's "what they would have done theories", at this point. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 04:05:19 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4638 on: February 12, 2019, 04:05:01 PM »
Also, if R99 grants his permission, I would be willing to provide a link to Chapter 5 of my report DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson which includes R99's entire 23-page flight path theory.
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4639 on: February 12, 2019, 04:07:22 PM »
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Also, if R99 grants his permission, I would be willing to provide a link to Chapter 5 of my report DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson which includes R99's entire 23-page flight path theory.

Your theory is not proof. R99 is about proof. Send whatever you want to R99, he;s busy but will listen. I dont speak for R99.... it must be written text because R99 is deaf.  BTW R99 has spent a lot of time at Tina Bar personally ... he knows the area well. You know he lives in AZ ... you could drive to see him personally.

R99 beliees Cooper was DOA near Tina Bar and the money filtered on to the bar over time, and was buried by natural means. That is his theory. He does not believe Cooper survived to bury anything .... 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 04:14:12 PM by georger »
 

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4640 on: February 12, 2019, 04:13:34 PM »
I just sent R99 an email asking for his permission to link to my Chapter 5, and by virtue of that his complete flight path theory. I'll update as I receive word.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4641 on: February 12, 2019, 04:15:17 PM »
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I just sent R99 an email asking for his permission to link to my Chapter 5, and by virtue of that his complete flight path theory. I'll update as I receive word.

R99 believes Cooper was DOA near Tina Bar and the money filtered on to the bar over time, and was buried by natural means. That is his theory. He does not believe Cooper survived to be walking around burying anything .... 
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4642 on: February 12, 2019, 04:21:01 PM »
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I just sent R99 an email asking for his permission to link to my Chapter 5, and by virtue of that his complete flight path theory. I'll update as I receive word.

R99 believes Cooper was DOA near Tina Bar and the money filtered on to the bar over time, and was buried by natural means. That is his theory. He does not believe Cooper survived to be walking around burying anything ....

That is correct. The salient point of the theory is that Cooper landed on or near Tena Bar.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4643 on: February 12, 2019, 11:32:01 PM »
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I just sent R99 an email asking for his permission to link to my Chapter 5, and by virtue of that his complete flight path theory. I'll update as I receive word.

R99 believes Cooper was DOA near Tina Bar and the money filtered on to the bar over time, and was buried by natural means. That is his theory. He does not believe Cooper survived to be walking around burying anything ....

That is correct. The salient point of the theory is that Cooper landed on or near Tena Bar.

The salient point is that we have been with R99 for years! I think we know a little bit about this. Where were you?   ;)

« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 11:33:56 PM by georger »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4644 on: February 13, 2019, 05:04:13 AM »
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I just sent R99 an email asking for his permission to link to my Chapter 5, and by virtue of that his complete flight path theory. I'll update as I receive word.

R99 believes Cooper was DOA near Tina Bar and the money filtered on to the bar over time, and was buried by natural means. That is his theory. He does not believe Cooper survived to be walking around burying anything ....

That is correct. The salient point of the theory is that Cooper landed on or near Tena Bar.

Will yours and R99's flight path include an actual flight path map with time stamps which can be examined, consistent with the PI Transcript?  Will you specify a drop zone map consistent with the FBI wind data?

Those would be the salient points of the theory. Something that can actually be examined and tested?
 
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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4645 on: February 13, 2019, 09:55:31 AM »
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I just sent R99 an email asking for his permission to link to my Chapter 5, and by virtue of that his complete flight path theory. I'll update as I receive word.

R99 emailed me back and stated that he's fine with his writings regarding the flight path being made available here.

To that end, the following link is to a page on my site that contains the entirety of Chapter Five: The Flight Path in my report DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson which includes R99's theory regarding the flight path in totality. Furthermore, it should be stated that R99 believes that Cooper perished the night of the jump. It goes without saying, I believe Cooper survived. Finally, please note that the chapter is quite lengthy, detailed and technical.

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Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

RFK
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4646 on: February 13, 2019, 02:22:34 PM »
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I just sent R99 an email asking for his permission to link to my Chapter 5, and by virtue of that his complete flight path theory. I'll update as I receive word.

R99 emailed me back and stated that he's fine with his writings regarding the flight path being made available here.

To that end, the following link is to a page on my site that contains the entirety of Chapter Five: The Flight Path in my report DB Cooper: The Definitive Investigation of Sheridan Peterson which includes R99's theory regarding the flight path in totality. Furthermore, it should be stated that R99 believes that Cooper perished the night of the jump. It goes without saying, I believe Cooper survived. Finally, please note that the chapter is quite lengthy, detailed and technical.

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In your section on the money find location you still have not identified 'what' it is you found that lead you to a different location than Tom Kaye. Tom states he found remains of an old tree. All you say is: "I reviewed the Cooper Research Team data, old footage from 1980 taken during the FBI search of Tena Bar, contemporary images of the area, These GPS coordinates were derived by locating the spot on Google Earth utilizing my iPhone after leaving the area."

But WHAT have you identified that nobody else has identified? WHAT have you reinterpreted that others did not identify and interpret correctly? Show the world your evidence! So far yours is just a claim. 

*I could just as easily say "the money location is within the circles penciled in on the USGS maps, because somebody who knew the location drew those circles on the photos back in 1980!"     
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 02:28:07 PM by georger »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4647 on: February 13, 2019, 04:19:44 PM »
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In your section on the money find location you still have not identified 'what' it is you found that lead you to a different location than Tom Kaye. Tom states he found remains of an old tree. All you say is: "I reviewed the Cooper Research Team data, old footage from 1980 taken during the FBI search of Tena Bar, contemporary images of the area, These GPS coordinates were derived by locating the spot on Google Earth utilizing my iPhone after leaving the area."

But WHAT have you identified that nobody else has identified? WHAT have you reinterpreted that others did not identify and interpret correctly? Show the world your evidence! So far yours is just a claim. 

*I could just as easily say "the money location is within the circles penciled in on the USGS maps, because somebody who knew the location drew those circles on the photos back in 1980!"   

I looked at specific landmarks, primarily the small dirt access road. A portion of it still exists. It has a very distinct "S" shape. In fact, there are only two sections of the Tena Bar small dirt road with this distinct "S" shape on the Fazio's property.

Also, the leaning tree in the background of the picture of Brian no longer exists. I know this because I measured the tree distance from the small dirt access road and the money find spot. Today it would be right on the water's edge.

Finally, after I identified the spot with absolute certainty I discovered that Palmer was seen on TV news footage pointing to a spot on a map. The spot he is pointing to lines up with my identified spot.

The spot I have identified is irrefutable. Tom Kaye's spot is approximately 120 feet SSW of the actual spot.

I believe my article about the money find spot does a good job at illustrating via several images how I pinpoint the spot.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 04:26:16 PM by EU »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4648 on: February 13, 2019, 04:25:02 PM »
The above is exactly right. Eric identified several things I have stated over the years. also, Kaye will tell you he could be off by a hundred feet I believe he said.

GPS cords mean nothing if they are incorrect...
« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 04:26:10 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #4649 on: February 13, 2019, 11:59:32 PM »
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In your section on the money find location you still have not identified 'what' it is you found that lead you to a different location than Tom Kaye. Tom states he found remains of an old tree. All you say is: "I reviewed the Cooper Research Team data, old footage from 1980 taken during the FBI search of Tena Bar, contemporary images of the area, These GPS coordinates were derived by locating the spot on Google Earth utilizing my iPhone after leaving the area."

But WHAT have you identified that nobody else has identified? WHAT have you reinterpreted that others did not identify and interpret correctly? Show the world your evidence! So far yours is just a claim. 

*I could just as easily say "the money location is within the circles penciled in on the USGS maps, because somebody who knew the location drew those circles on the photos back in 1980!"   

I looked at specific landmarks, primarily the small dirt access road. A portion of it still exists. It has a very distinct "S" shape. In fact, there are only two sections of the Tena Bar small dirt road with this distinct "S" shape on the Fazio's property.

Also, the leaning tree in the background of the picture of Brian no longer exists. I know this because I measured the tree distance from the small dirt access road and the money find spot. Today it would be right on the water's edge.

Finally, after I identified the spot with absolute certainty I discovered that Palmer was seen on TV news footage pointing to a spot on a map. The spot he is pointing to lines up with my identified spot.

The spot I have identified is irrefutable. Tom Kaye's spot is approximately 120 feet SSW of the actual spot.

I believe my article about the money find spot does a good job at illustrating via several images how I pinpoint the spot.

I would sure like to see that news video that has Palmer pointing to a spot on a map. If you have that video take a screen shot and post it. Maybe Tom has seen that video, in Seattle? Maybe there are FBI photos in the archive Tom searched at Seattle that show the Ingram site specifically?

I talked to a fellow today at Portland whose Dad went to TBar immediately after the FBI left, and took some photos. The guy is going to try and find his Dad's photos and will copy them for us if he can find them. But this single call opened up a whole new chapter Im going into tomorrow. Lots of people went to Tina Bar to see what all of the fuss was about, as soon as it was open to the public again. Some of those were divers and salvage people! One eventually worked for a guy named ... TOSAW ... and a year later he met another guy working with Tosaw whose name was ... Curtis Raney!  Lots of people went to Tina Bar after the excavation and poked around, some talked to the Fazios, some did some diving that summer looking for anything that might connect with Cooper or the money find.  It turns out Tosaw was not alone in exploring the whole area ... from Hayden Island to north of Tina Bar. Three specific wing dams in that area were explored several times after the FBI was gone and things settled down.

This will be explored further in the days to come. 

I wonder what tree is next to this tree branch stuck in the sand, with a marker stick next to it, that its branches are over hanging the stake? 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 12:08:06 AM by georger »