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Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

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6 (9.2%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.2%)
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2 (3.1%)
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14 (21.5%)
75% Cooper lived
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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 3601193 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3885 on: November 09, 2018, 02:47:58 PM »
Here's a snip from another FBI memo from 11/25/71 which says the initial request was for two parachutes and it was changed to four parachutes. Maybe the ground misunderstood at first, and thought it was only two?

SEATTLE-TACOMA AIRPORT (SEA-TAC) CALLED AT APPROXIMATELY THREE TWENTYTWO PM, NOVEMBER TWENTYFOUR INSTANT, ADVISING THAT A MAN ABOARD INSTANT PLANE AT PORTLAND, OREGON, PASSED WORD TO THE PILOT THAT HE HAD A BOMB IN HIS BRIEFCASE AND DEMANDED TWO HUNDREDTHOUSAND DOLLARS. HE INSTRUCTED THE PILOT TO GET THIS MONEY READY BY FIVE PM, AND ALSO TO FURNISH HIM TWO PARACHUTES. SUBJECT INSTRUCTED PILOT TO HAVE NO ONE MEET THE AIRCRAFT; NO ONE WAS TO APPROACH THE AIRCRAFT AND THAT HE WOULD ADVISE LATER WHAT HIS FLIGHT PLANS WERE. SUBSEQUENTLY THE PILOT CIRCLED THE FIELD AT SEA-TAC UNTIL FIVE FORTYTHREE PM, WHEN THE PLANE LANDED. THE TIME WAS CONSUMED IN OBTAINING THE TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS AND IN OBTAINING PARACHUTES. IT IS NOTED THAT SUBJECT, DURING THIS TIME, CHANGED HIS REQUEST FOR PARACHUTES TO FOUR IN ALL, TWO BACK PACKS AND TWO CHEST PACKS.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 03:14:29 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3886 on: November 09, 2018, 03:18:40 PM »
looking at the transcripts, it says that Cooper wants "2 BAK PAK PARACHUTES" at 3:13 PM PST? No mention of chest parachutes.

(attached snip)

So I guess it's unclear. Maybe onboard the plane, they always knew he wanted 4 rigs, and the communication with the ground got them understanding only 2 back rigs at first.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3887 on: November 09, 2018, 03:21:46 PM »
In the transcripts we have, there's no mention of a chest pack request, until later when they say they're going to have the chest packs

at 3:57 PM

ARE IN CTC WITH LOCAL BANK AND ARRANGING FOR THE MONEY ND WILL HAVE
THE TWO CHEST PACKS SOON ALREADY HAVE
THE TWO BACK PACKS
305 R WIL ADV PSGRS HAVE HAD SLIGHT MECHCL DIFF WIL NOT ADV THE REAL NATURE
OF THE PROBLEM YET
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 03:22:18 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3888 on: November 09, 2018, 09:48:48 PM »
Read this in a 4/12/72 FBI memo

I don't think this has been discussed before (requirement for rear door open at takeoff, in order to lower stairs, due to pressurization?)

This note was part of a long comparison of the McCoy UAL hijack and the Cooper hijack. They did a lot of work investigating whether it was possible that it was McCoy.

IT IS NOTED BOEING SEVEN TWO SEVEN AIRCRAFT UNABLE TO TAKE OFF WITH STAIRS IN LOWERED POSITION. HOWEVER IN ORDER FOR STAIRS TO BE LOWERED IN FLIGHT, IT IS NECESSARY THAT REAR PRESSURED DOOR BE IN OPEN POSITION ON TAKE-OFF
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3889 on: November 09, 2018, 10:33:06 PM »
This is for 377
Excited because I found the flight configuration details of the airstairs test team flight in the FBI FOIA
attaching the 3 page memo

It's in the Part 31 FOIA files that were just released a couple weeks ago!

Also found the 6 page review of the test team members. Mostly redacted names. Surprisingly some names not redacted.
that will be in subsequent posts

Here's the config info from airstairs/drop test.
125 knots
25 degree flaps down
altitude  10,000 feet

See the attached docs. Here's the text:
ON JULY THIRTY ONE, SEVENTY TWO, <redacted> A BOEING COMPANY EXECUTIVE, MADE AVAILABLE A COPY OF THE BOEING TEST SUMMARY REPORT PERTAINING TO THE FLIGHT CONFIGURATION OF THE SEVEN TWO SEVEN. THE FOLLOWING FLIGHT CONFIGURATION WAS USED DURING THE BOEING AIR STAIRS TEST:

SPEED - ONE HUNDRED TWENTY FIVE KNOTS
FLAPS - TWENTY FIVE DEGREES DOWN
ALTITUDE - TEN THOUSAND FEET.

« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 10:34:18 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3890 on: November 09, 2018, 10:35:39 PM »
The next two posts are the 6 page review of the Boeing airstairs/drop test team
There was another member talking about dropping further investigation based on what Cooper said, but I already posted that
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3891 on: November 09, 2018, 10:36:33 PM »
pages 4 thru 6 of the review of the Boeing test team (airstairs/drop)
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3892 on: November 09, 2018, 10:41:15 PM »
There are 31 names on the airstairs/drop test team
It would be great if we could get non-redacted version of that memo with the list of all members.

Would be so cool to have Bruce interview someone on the airstairs test team of '63-'64 !!

I wonder who did the documentation? Who wrote the Boeing summary that was furnished to the FBI?
Man it would be great to have that Boeing document!
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3893 on: November 09, 2018, 10:46:53 PM »
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Read this in a 4/12/72 FBI memo

I don't think this has been discussed before (requirement for rear door open at takeoff, in order to lower stairs, due to pressurization?)

This note was part of a long comparison of the McCoy UAL hijack and the Cooper hijack. They did a lot of work investigating whether it was possible that it was McCoy.

IT IS NOTED BOEING SEVEN TWO SEVEN AIRCRAFT UNABLE TO TAKE OFF WITH STAIRS IN LOWERED POSITION. HOWEVER IN ORDER FOR STAIRS TO BE LOWERED IN FLIGHT, IT IS NECESSARY THAT REAR PRESSURED DOOR BE IN OPEN POSITION ON TAKE-OFF

Apparently Robb Heady knew that as well. The only real demands he made was for the rear door to be left open upon take-off and to fly certain coordinates to San Francisco International Airport so that the plane would bank left at the right time for him to jump into Washoe Lake and Forest area.

BTW, as he was flying towards SFO, Western 410 was taking off on its getaway flight to Algeria.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3894 on: November 09, 2018, 10:49:48 PM »
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There are 31 names on the airstairs/drop test team
It would be great if we could get non-redacted version of that memo with the list of all members.

Would be so cool to have Bruce interview someone on the airstairs test team of '63-'64 !!

I wonder who did the documentation? Who wrote the Boeing summary that was furnished to the FBI?
Man it would be great to have that Boeing document!

I'd love to interview them, but I'm gonna need some help on names and contact info, Snow. Sail couldn't provide much help. Stan Gilliam is deceased, and the folks out in Moses Lake have been pretty quiet.

One little tidbit of synchronicity, Mike McPheters of T-Bar fame lives in Moses Lake. Maybe I could interview a couple guys on one trip...
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3895 on: November 09, 2018, 10:53:41 PM »
Grinnell Update

The Bank guy, Grinnell, hasn't gotten in touch. Feels like a dead-end for getting more definitive information on bank bands, rubber bands, etc.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3896 on: November 09, 2018, 11:33:26 PM »
Well, Heady was after Cooper.
Cooper was the first

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Read this in a 4/12/72 FBI memo

I don't think this has been discussed before (requirement for rear door open at takeoff, in order to lower stairs, due to pressurization?)

This note was part of a long comparison of the McCoy UAL hijack and the Cooper hijack. They did a lot of work investigating whether it was possible that it was McCoy.

IT IS NOTED BOEING SEVEN TWO SEVEN AIRCRAFT UNABLE TO TAKE OFF WITH STAIRS IN LOWERED POSITION. HOWEVER IN ORDER FOR STAIRS TO BE LOWERED IN FLIGHT, IT IS NECESSARY THAT REAR PRESSURED DOOR BE IN OPEN POSITION ON TAKE-OFF

Apparently Robb Heady knew that as well. The only real demands he made was for the rear door to be left open upon take-off and to fly certain coordinates to San Francisco International Airport so that the plane would bank left at the right time for him to jump into Washoe Lake and Forest area.

BTW, as he was flying towards SFO, Western 410 was taking off on its getaway flight to Algeria.
 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3897 on: November 10, 2018, 02:40:15 AM »
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Well, Heady was after Cooper.
Cooper was the first

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Read this in a 4/12/72 FBI memo

I don't think this has been discussed before (requirement for rear door open at takeoff, in order to lower stairs, due to pressurization?)

This note was part of a long comparison of the McCoy UAL hijack and the Cooper hijack. They did a lot of work investigating whether it was possible that it was McCoy.

IT IS NOTED BOEING SEVEN TWO SEVEN AIRCRAFT UNABLE TO TAKE OFF WITH STAIRS IN LOWERED POSITION. HOWEVER IN ORDER FOR STAIRS TO BE LOWERED IN FLIGHT, IT IS NECESSARY THAT REAR PRESSURED DOOR BE IN OPEN POSITION ON TAKE-OFF

Apparently Robb Heady knew that as well. The only real demands he made was for the rear door to be left open upon take-off and to fly certain coordinates to San Francisco International Airport so that the plane would bank left at the right time for him to jump into Washoe Lake and Forest area.

BTW, as he was flying towards SFO, Western 410 was taking off on its getaway flight to Algeria.

First from a 727. Paul Cini was the first parajacker, less than 2 weeks earlier. 12 years of hijackings from Castro to Cooper and no ransoms, but Paul Cini shows up and 12 days later you get D.B. Cooper. Not a coincidence. Cooper read Cini's headline and said, "I know how to do that better." I have always believed that.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3898 on: November 10, 2018, 03:41:07 AM »
The relationship, or influence of Paul Cini upon Dan Cooper has not been explored very deeply. It could turn up some interesting information.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3899 on: November 10, 2018, 10:36:57 AM »
Cini was born in Scotland and British a citizen, not Canadian but lived in Canada and tried to immigrate to the US. He was briefly in the US military.

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"This, he convinced the crew, was a bomb that would explode if the two wires held gingerly much of the time by Mary Dohey touched."


"When he received his immigration papers in 1964, he moved in with relatives in New Jersey and went to work cleaning rollers in a printing shop. But his draft notice soon came and he scooted back to Calgary. There, he got a truck-driving job and fell in with a gang of car thieves. They paid him to deliver stolen cars and indulge his passion for driving the sleek, expensive models his father had always helped him buy. But after one such delivery there was an argument over Cini's fee. So instead of handing over the car, he changed the serial numbers and traded it in on a new model. He botched the job, however, and when he heard the police were on his track he ran back to the U.S. In a pub in Spokane he got drinking with an army sergeant who persuaded him he could join up without going to Vietnam. Cini took the oath ("I was under the influence") and found himself in a boot camp an infantryman who hated guns. "The noise bothered me I was scared to death." He escaped the guns at his next base by qualifying for the communications corps. But he froze with fear halfway up his first telephone pole. By now, however, he was carrying vodka in his water canteen and he managed to forget his terror of heights long enough to volunteer for the Green Berets because he wanted to stay with some pals who were joining the crack parachute regiment. To his secret relief, a hearing impairment disqualified him. Convinced now that he didn't belong in the army, Cini tried to talk his way out, arguing that he hadn't been sober when he signed up. When that didn't work, he stole a car and drove to the Canadian border."
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 10:37:42 AM by FLYJACK »