Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.2%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.2%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
100 Cooper lived
25 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 3602053 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3855 on: October 29, 2018, 02:33:19 PM »
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Cooper apparently said they could make Yuma and Reno

This is per the LV 164-60-139 dictated 11/26/71 in Reno by SA H. E. Hinderliter Jr. and SAC Harold E. Campbell, Jr. (from this forum's FBI files?)

Snip attached, plus snip from pilot transcripts talking about Yuma

Isn't it noteworthy that Cooper was familiar with Yuma? What I mean is we all assume Cooper was familiar with the Seattle area because of his comment about Tacoma from the air and his comment about McChord in relation to SeaTac.

I've lived in Arizona for many years and I can tell you Yuma is not well known even in the state. I suspect that outside of Arizona and the military few people have heard of or known where Yuma is located. Interestingly, Yuma is home to a Marine Air Base.

Doesn't this knowledge regarding Yuma suggest that a former Marine may have been Cooper? Furthermore, Sheridan is a former Marine.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:34:50 PM by EU »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3856 on: October 29, 2018, 02:39:36 PM »
Another LV-164 from 11/25/71 says Cooper suggested Phoenix, then Yuma.
This says Cooper then had "preference" for Reno. Not sure if Cooper suggested Reno first?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:43:47 PM by snowmman »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3857 on: October 29, 2018, 02:49:08 PM »
Cooper suggested PHX, Ground suggested Reno first then Crew suggested Reno... Cooper accepted.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:50:23 PM by FLYJACK »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3858 on: October 29, 2018, 02:51:30 PM »
EU

Before Sheridan came to the Seattle area, he had a job in 1962 in the Columbia Basin in Eastern Washington, near the Columbia River. I've forgotten if I ever ID'ed the town. He was 37 and married with kids? at least his book implies that.

It was 200 miles from Seattle? (according to his book)
And Ellensburg was nearby.

The Hanford Nuclear site (incredibly toxic today still) is on the Columbia and about 180 miles from Seattle.

I wonder if Sheridan worked near the Hanford Nuclear Site around '61/'62

I wonder if Cooper worked near the Hanford Nuclear Site, for that matter.

added: Yes, Ellensburg is about 1/3rd of the way from Hanford Nuclear Site to Seattle
 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:54:58 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3859 on: October 29, 2018, 02:53:07 PM »
Flyjack, the two versions of the memos from Reno I posted, include the Yuma discussion
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3860 on: October 29, 2018, 03:03:10 PM »
Here are the relevant paragraphs that justify what I suggested about Sheridan above

The change was quite sudden. It occurred when the newspaper he had been working for went bankrupt. He suddenly found himself without a job in Eastern Washington's bleak desolate Columbia Basin during the coldest part of winter. Within less than a month, he hadn't a penny. His wife spent his salary as quickly as he earned it, so nothing was ever saved. But she couldn't be blamed. A small town newspaper reporter didn't make much. Ninety buck a week was all.

...

It had been humiliating. The Social Welfare Caseworker was suspicious. She scrutinized the stack of forms he'd filled out. "You're no kid. You're thirty-seven years old. Why haven't you saved for a rainy day? You owe it to your wife and kids," she said.

The caseworker had small mean dark eyes set close together. Her lips were tightly pursed forming a circle of dry-prune wrinkles about the mouth. She looked as though she'd been sucking on a lime. It would take at least a month to process his claim, she said. In the meantime she'd give him a voucher for the rent, and he could pick up some food at the agency's warehouse. Thanking her, Grecco explained that he would need some money for gas. His home was at a nearby town some twenty-five miles away. The social worker agreed to advance him the bare minimum; however it would be deducted from his first month's allotment. "You been over to the employment office?" she asked. "I understand they're running a gas line to Soap Lake. They need men to dig the ditch. You aint afraid to get your hands dirty, are you?" Vince tried to explain what had happened, but she only scoffed. "I've been working here for thirty years, and I thought I'd heard them all, but yours takes the cake."
...
Grecco's wife was outraged. The humiliation was unbearable. Maud would not speak to Vince. She left terse brief notes on the kitchen table. Do this. Don't do that. They had violent fights. Once when he tried to take the car keys from Maud, she struck him across the brow with a butcher knife. On another occasion, a neighbor called the cops. Grecco had pushed Maud up against the bathtub. As she fell backwards into the tub her foot lodged against the toilet twisting her knee out of joint. The police gave Vince one last warning. Next time and it was a month in jail. No excuses.

It was 1962. Times were tough...

...
There was no work in the Columbia Basin for a journalist. Grecco must go to Seattle. However, he had only a few dollars in his pocket, not enough for gas a bus ticket. He tried thumbing a ride, but was picked up by the highway patrol at Ellensburg.

Hitchhiking on interstate highways was forbidden. They threatened him with either a fine or jail. Grecco had no alternative. He could not walk some two hundred miles over the Cascade Mountains in subzero weather. He went some distance from town and flagged a ride. The driver was nervous. He was not in the habit of picking up hitchhikers. One was always reading about how someone was either robbed or murdered. Then why had he stopped? Well, he wanted someone to help with the gas. When Vince told him that he was nearly broke, the driver dropped him off in the dark. He was angry. Grecco was an imposition.

The snow was six foot deep at the side of the highway. Grecco waited until sunrise dancing up and down to keep from freezing. He got a ride in the back of a truck to Seattle. The flatbed was covered with grease. All he had to sit on was a section of sewer pipe that slid about on the oily floorboards.

Grecco got a job at the Seattle World's Fair as a "Bubbalator" operator....
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3861 on: October 29, 2018, 03:06:41 PM »
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EU

Before Sheridan came to the Seattle area, he had a job in 1962 in the Columbia Basin in Eastern Washington, near the Columbia River. I've forgotten if I ever ID'ed the town. He was 37 and married with kids? at least his book implies that.

It was 200 miles from Seattle? (according to his book)
And Ellensburg was nearby.

The Hanford Nuclear site (incredibly toxic today still) is on the Columbia and about 180 miles from Seattle.

I wonder if Sheridan worked near the Hanford Nuclear Site around '61/'62

I wonder if Cooper worked near the Hanford Nuclear Site, for that matter.

added: Yes, Ellensburg is about 1/3rd of the way from Hanford Nuclear Site to Seattle

He wrote for the Wenatchee World newspaper. I am certain that there would have been occasions for reporters from the newspaper to report on activities at Hanford and  be on site.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3862 on: October 30, 2018, 03:19:05 PM »
Tom says on his mccrone1 web page

There are pictures for each particle but they are in a proprietary format which we don't have a translator for so we are not making them available

It'd be nice if someone asks him about this. It's hard to believe we can't have pictures? I mean he apparently made two or 3 pictures of particles? Why can't we get all?

Also: the 4 xls files. Are they all from McCrone analysis? There is no xls for what Tom himself?
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3863 on: November 02, 2018, 11:27:36 PM »
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Tom says on his mccrone1 web page

There are pictures for each particle but they are in a proprietary format which we don't have a translator for so we are not making them available

It'd be nice if someone asks him about this. It's hard to believe we can't have pictures? I mean he apparently made two or 3 pictures of particles? Why can't we get all?

Also: the 4 xls files. Are they all from McCrone analysis? There is no xls for what Tom himself?

Tom's claim is spurious. He fails to state what this 'propriety' format is. Is it a .tom file? I have a converter for all .tom files. Somebody has McCrone software for working with their file types!  :rofl:

See:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   and   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   just for a few. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   

 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 11:48:55 PM by georger »
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3864 on: November 03, 2018, 01:58:43 PM »
Interesting AP reporter "Clossey" talked to "Cossey" about the dummy reserve before the FBI did.. Nov 25
 

Offline dice

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3865 on: November 05, 2018, 05:51:05 PM »
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Tom says on his mccrone1 web page

There are pictures for each particle but they are in a proprietary format which we don't have a translator for so we are not making them available

It'd be nice if someone asks him about this. It's hard to believe we can't have pictures? I mean he apparently made two or 3 pictures of particles? Why can't we get all?

Also: the 4 xls files. Are they all from McCrone analysis? There is no xls for what Tom himself?

Tom's claim is spurious. He fails to state what this 'propriety' format is. Is it a .tom file? I have a converter for all .tom files. Somebody has McCrone software for working with their file types!  :rofl:

See:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   and   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   just for a few. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   

Garbage in, garbage out.

Purdue 38 Iowa 36
Purdue 38  Iowa 36
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3866 on: November 05, 2018, 11:23:03 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Tom says on his mccrone1 web page

There are pictures for each particle but they are in a proprietary format which we don't have a translator for so we are not making them available

It'd be nice if someone asks him about this. It's hard to believe we can't have pictures? I mean he apparently made two or 3 pictures of particles? Why can't we get all?

Also: the 4 xls files. Are they all from McCrone analysis? There is no xls for what Tom himself?

Tom's claim is spurious. He fails to state what this 'propriety' format is. Is it a .tom file? I have a converter for all .tom files. Somebody has McCrone software for working with their file types!  :rofl:

See:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   and   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   just for a few. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login   

Garbage in, garbage out.

Purdue 38 Iowa 36

Garbage out.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3867 on: November 05, 2018, 11:27:38 PM »
Is this heaven?
No, it's Iowa

                        :rofl:
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3868 on: November 08, 2018, 02:51:11 PM »
I think I have something new to say about the tie, as seen in the citizensleuths.com photos.

It may be obvious, but looking at a functional "snapper towncraft 3" tie I have, I notice that the white flat metal that slides behind the shirt, is bent severely on the Cooper tie and not on mine. Mine is obviously the way it should be, for good attachment.

The white metal is supposed to be touching the brass (plated?) post. I've attached a photo of my tie, showing how the white metal should be touching the brass (plated?) post.

I don't think the Cooper tie is wearable as shown in the photos, without bending the white metal back down.

Maybe this means Cooper wrenched it off and bent it.

I have a Cooper-like snapper towncraft 3 tie, but it appears to be what Flyjack calls a 1965+ model
it has patent numbers 3220015 and 3222684, as Flyjack noted.

The Cooper tie apparently has only patent number:  2972750 ??

I have attached photos of my non-bent clip, and two photos from Tom Kaye's site, that show the clip is severely bent

I wonder if my tie is similar material to the Cooper tie. In the photos the texture of the tie material in the knot, seems similar.
It might be good for a control, for trying to stick particles to it of some kind.


This is Flyjack's info: (and as noted elsewhere, the "funky P" Penney's logo label was apparently not used before 1963, which sets deduced bounds (good sleuthing!)
 
I found fragmented images of the secondary label online and on tv, the label with the patent number on it. 

The Patent label on the Cooper tie is trimmed or misaligned cutting off the last number in the patent. I finally found a full sample identical to the fragments. Turns out the patent was filed 1959 and issued 1961.. All the other ties with the same TOWNCRAFT label had two completely different patents filed 1965. 

This is the patent number on the Cooper tie: 2972750 but missing the last 0 as the label is either trimmed, altered or misaligned in the manufacturing process.
 
The later TOWNCRAFT ties have late 1965 patent#s 3220015 and 3222684

 
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 03:00:26 PM by snowmman »
 

Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3869 on: November 08, 2018, 03:13:12 PM »
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I think I have something new to say about the tie, as seen in the citizensleuths.com photos.

It may be obvious, but looking at a functional "snapper towncraft 3" tie I have, I notice that the white flat metal that slides behind the shirt, is bent severely on the Cooper tie and not on mine. Mine is obviously the way it should be, for good attachment.

The white metal is supposed to be touching the brass (plated?) post. I've attached a photo of my tie, showing how the white metal should be touching the brass (plated?) post.

I don't think the Cooper tie is wearable as shown in the photos, without bending the white metal back down.

Maybe this means Cooper wrenched it off and bent it.

I have a Cooper-like snapper towncraft 3 tie, but it appears to be what Flyjack calls a 1965+ model
it has patent numbers 3220015 and 3222684, as Flyjack noted.

The Cooper tie apparently has only patent number:  2972750 ??

I have attached photos of my non-bent clip, and two photos from Tom Kaye's site, that show the clip is severely bent

I wonder if my tie is similar material to the Cooper tie. In the photos the texture of the tie material in the knot, seems similar.
It might be good for a control, for trying to stick particles to it of some kind.


This is Flyjack's info: (and as noted elsewhere, the "funky P" Penney's logo label was apparently not used before 1963, which sets deduced bounds (good sleuthing!)
 
I found fragmented images of the secondary label online and on tv, the label with the patent number on it. 

The Patent label on the Cooper tie is trimmed or misaligned cutting off the last number in the patent. I finally found a full sample identical to the fragments. Turns out the patent was filed 1959 and issued 1961.. All the other ties with the same TOWNCRAFT label had two completely different patents filed 1965. 

This is the patent number on the Cooper tie: 2972750 but missing the last 0 as the label is either trimmed, altered or misaligned in the manufacturing process.
 
The later TOWNCRAFT ties have late 1965 patent#s 3220015 and 3222684

 


better larger images?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 03:15:08 PM by georger »