Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.2%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.2%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
100 Cooper lived
25 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 3602063 times)

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3840 on: October 29, 2018, 07:54:54 AM »
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here's the area of an older mine with Palladium in Montana

aka Spring Gulch (sub-district) aka Seepay Creek
...
The ore shipped from the district consists of malachite, chrysocolla, quartz, and rock carrying copper, silver, gold, platinum, and palladium.
...
Between 1906 and 1961 the total production of the district was 1,277 ounces gold, 5,752 ounces silver, 1,392,791 pounds copper, 22 pounds lead, and no zinc. The 9,099 tons of ore yielded $242,296 in value. There was no production recorded in the years 1906-09, 1914, 1921, 1923-24, 1926-30, 1934, 1943, and 1950-1961 (Crowley 1963).

Man, this would be convenient, with Spring Gulch being along the interstate between Missoula and Spokane, two of the plane's stops. Just assign it to an absent-minded passenger and relax the tie-particle muscle in all of our spent brains.

This mine didn't produce anything after 1949, though, so sure, I'll look at the palladium. Some time later, while I should be cleaning or grocery shopping, I'm sure I'll be looking at the spreadsheets.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 07:56:09 AM by Unsurelock »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3841 on: October 29, 2018, 11:01:19 AM »
Palladium (Pd) was not called out on any list before.
But by my eye, there seems to be more of it than some of the things that were called out?

Platinum wasn't found apparently?

It's surprising that they even tested for Palladium..or maybe it just matched and called itself out.

It's in the Macrone 500 series
Not in the Macrone 600 series
Not in the MA-16-550-Summary01 or Summary02

I misspoke before saying "all the files" ...Apparently just the Macrone 500 series file.

I really mistrust these files. All the talk about Ti and no Ti in the Macrone files either.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:05:08 AM by snowmman »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3842 on: October 29, 2018, 11:04:33 AM »
The focus on Yttrium was because it was rare.. and may narrow down an environment.

Palladium is found in all electronic devices and military pyrotechnics...

IMO, the "dynamite" may have been military such as a decoy flare..

Many of those tie particles are listed here... p 4-14, 8-13, 8-15, 8-18


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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3843 on: October 29, 2018, 11:07:15 AM »
Palladium is too rare and expensive I think to be as common as you suggest.

Weird how it's produced by nuclear fission, but unlikely to get it on your tie from that

I was thinking about pollution from the Hanford site in WA

But mostly, on the whole, the data files don't make sense to me. The combination of elements in particles doesn't make sense.
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3844 on: October 29, 2018, 11:08:46 AM »
Yttrium isn't rare. It's in dirt
Palladium isn't in dirt.

And the weird thing is that it's found elemental in ore? Not as a compound?
Not sure about that

But there are apparent compounds in the files? Unless they are just elements smooshed together in a particle.
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3845 on: October 29, 2018, 11:09:24 AM »
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Palladium is too rare and expensive I think to be as common as you suggest.

Weird how it's produced by nuclear fission, but unlikely to get it on your tie from that

I was thinking about pollution from the Hanford site in WA

But mostly, on the whole, the data files don't make sense to me. The combination of elements in particles doesn't make sense.

it was used in electrical contacts, small quantities but ubiquitous
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3846 on: October 29, 2018, 11:13:13 AM »
Interesting. you may be right

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The Application of Palladium in Electronic Connectors

Palladium and palladium-based materials are being increasingly accepted as substitutes for gold in contacts for separable electronic connectors. Since 1975 the favourable cost of palladium relative to gold has stimulated research in many areas of contact technology, including manufacturing processes, contact phenomena, testing and connector design.

This has resulted in the development of several new materials systems involving electrodeposited coatings, clad inlays and weldments of palladium, palladium-silver alloys, gold-palladium-silver compositions and composite coatings with other metals that are equivalent to all-gold systems in many applications. This review traces the history of research on palladium for use in connectors, and summarises important results of studies of the environmental, tribological and contact properties of palladium materials.

Palladium and palladium alloys, such as 60palladium-40silver and 73palladium-27nickel, have a long history of use in contacts in the electronics industry. Their characteristics of erosion resistance, nobility, ease of fabrication and moderate cost have made palladium materials the premier choice since 1950 for light duty open relay contacts in telecommunications. The consumption of palladium worldwide for this application was in excess of a million troy ounces in 1974 (1).

The need for relays in telephone apparatus is, however, rapidly declining because of the development of solid state switching systems that are smaller, consume less power, operate faster and are less expensive than comparable electromechanical equipment. Nevertheless, palladium will continue to be used in significant amounts to service existing apparatus, at least until the year 2000, as well as in other relay applications.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:14:21 AM by snowmman »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3847 on: October 29, 2018, 11:16:23 AM »
Early Use of Palladium in Connector Contacts

The use of palladium was small in the 1960s, the main application being in a British Post Office prototype system when 3,000 to 4,000 troy ounces a year were used for contacts electroplated directly on the edges of printed circuit boards (4).

Although it was recognised that palladium might have some technical disadvantages in being less noble than gold, a compensating factor was the better compatibility of palladium plating solutions with board materials by comparison with common gold plating solutions of the time.
Also, its resistance to sliding wear from contact engagement and separation was better than that of a gold electrodeposit against which it was compared (4). Experience with the system of gold alloy contact connectors mated to palladium edge plated boards was satisfactory (5).

During the 1960s studies of palladium electroplating processes and contact properties continued, and in 1972 a major connection system was committed to palladium (6), This consisted of wire contacts soldered in holes in printed circuit boards forming a pin field to which separable connectors with 75gold-25silver alloy contacts were joined. In this product palladium is electrodeposited on nickel wire pins, with the initial annual consumption of 10,000 to 20,000 troy ounces a year (7).

As the price differential between palladium and gold continued to widen during the late 1970s to the present, interest in palladium heightened and commercial connectors with palladium and palladium alloy contacts have begun to appear in the United States, Japan and West Germany, as well as in other countries.

There is interest also in palladium as a gold replacement in switches for low energy applications, an example being a small multi-pole device that can be mounted on printed circuit boards (8). This device has 60palladium-40silver contacts that mate to gold plated members.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:16:55 AM by snowmman »
 

FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3848 on: October 29, 2018, 11:17:22 AM »
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Yttrium isn't rare. It's in dirt
Palladium isn't in dirt.

And the weird thing is that it's found elemental in ore? Not as a compound?
Not sure about that

But there are apparent compounds in the files? Unless they are just elements smooshed together in a particle.

It's use is rare compared to the other particles. aka unique. That unique USE may narrow down an environment.

Y in dirt is very low PPM...

 

Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3849 on: October 29, 2018, 01:20:55 PM »
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Palladium is too rare and expensive I think to be as common as you suggest.

Weird how it's produced by nuclear fission, but unlikely to get it on your tie from that

I was thinking about pollution from the Hanford site in WA

But mostly, on the whole, the data files don't make sense to me. The combination of elements in particles doesn't make sense.

When you toss a neutron at Plutonium 239 (or Uranium 235), it will split that atom into two new atoms.  The atomic numbers of those two elements will add up to plutonium's atomic number - nothing is lost except the energy and a neutron.  So if you hit a wall made of a hundred bricks with a wrecking ball and it split the wall into two pieces of brick wall, to use a bad analogy, you'd get one with 57 bricks, the other with 43 bricks.  The next wall you break would have maybe 51 bricks and 49 bricks.  They would always add back up to a hundred, but you could never predict how any given wall (atom) was going to split.

Applying that to atoms, the fission process does not make a bunch of the same atom and concentrate it.  The elements in nuclear waste are random, much like a jar of M&Ms.  What we're looking at is a big cookie baked entirely with yellow M&Ms and wondering if it could have just accidentally come from the factory that way. I say "we" because I worked on this a while back.

Take a look at the McCrone 500 series, second tab.  Line 1856 shows a particle that is 93% Yttrium and 7% Silicon. Line 4770 shows a particle that is 87% Silicon and 13% Yttrium. There are no other elements present in either of these two particles.  What we're looking at is likely a "fender bender" between refined Silicon and refined Yttrium that left paint on each other's quarter panel, so to speak.

I'll take another look at the data later.  Peaked my interested again.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 01:27:57 PM by Unsurelock »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3850 on: October 29, 2018, 01:31:29 PM »
Does anyone know which documents explain the negotiation and decision to refuel in Reno and Yuma? Who suggested these two cities?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline EU

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3851 on: October 29, 2018, 01:43:56 PM »
What I'm getting at is that if my memory serves me right it was Cooper who inquired about refueling in either Phoenix or Yuma after he was told they could not make it to Mexico City. Can anyone confirm this?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3852 on: October 29, 2018, 01:53:34 PM »
Blind random searches by forum actors vs an epidemiological approach search, or other DOT based searches! Works by searching for particle or element groups by occupation

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Occupational Exposure to Ultrafine Particles among Airport Employees - Combining Personal Monitoring and Global Positioning System

Why not use resources already developed by professionals vs blind searches by forum actors  ?  :))

The FBI has software for particle association! Tom Kaye is aware of that.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:01:30 PM by georger »
 

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3853 on: October 29, 2018, 02:22:37 PM »
Cooper apparently said they could make Yuma and Reno

This is per the LV 164-60-139 dictated 11/26/71 in Reno by SA H. E. Hinderliter Jr. and SAC Harold E. Campbell, Jr. (from this forum's FBI files?)

Snip attached, plus snip from pilot transcripts talking about Yuma
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:24:04 PM by snowmman »
 
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3854 on: October 29, 2018, 02:30:48 PM »
There was another version of that Reno doc dictated on 11-30-71 by the same agents that worded the Yuma/Reno discussion a little differently. attached.

They subsequently informed the hijacker that under the operating conditions that he had stipulated, it would be impossible for them to reach Mexico City and he thereafter countered with the possible destination of Phoenix. Each point that he mentioned would be considered and rejected with the cities of Yuma, Sacramento and Reno being mentioned and a final agreement reached whereby the plane would fly to Reno, Nevada, as its initial destination,

The phrasing was a little different in the prior 11-26-71 dictation (although why was that -139 and the later memo -138? The -138 and -139 were written with pen. Maybe they were numbered in reverse order later when filing)

After refueling was completed and takeoff appeared imminent, the crew called on the intercom and advised that after checking with appropriate authorities, they had been told that the fuel load would not permit them to fly nonstop to Mexico City, or anywhere in Mexico, in fact. They pointed out that the range of fuel was such that they recommended landing to refuel somewhere in the San Francisco, California area. The hijacker countered with Phoenix, Arizona, as an alternative landing for refueling. When the crew responded in the negative due to the distance to Phoenix, Arizona, he at that time stated the aircraft could make Yuma, Arizona, or Reno, Nevada, and he preferred a landing in Reno, Nevada. The crew called back and stated they would proceed to Reno, Nevada.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 02:35:12 PM by snowmman »