Poll

Do you believe Cooper lived or died. the option are below to cast a vote...

0% Cooper lived
6 (9.2%)
25% Cooper lived
4 (6.2%)
35% Cooper lived.
2 (3.1%)
50% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
75% Cooper lived
14 (21.5%)
100 Cooper lived
25 (38.5%)

Total Members Voted: 60

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Author Topic: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case  (Read 3604416 times)

Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3810 on: October 27, 2018, 11:43:27 PM »
It'd be interesting to see how the machine reacts, with the higher voltage that reads thru oxides, to titanium oxide that occurs naturally

i.e. are there unique signatures between pure Ti, oxidized, and natural Ti oxides with the instrument used.

Also, did Tom say the 2nd testing done recently didn't show any Ti? I have to read Tom's post again with respect to that.
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3811 on: October 28, 2018, 12:55:13 AM »
I'm not sure if you're saying maybe I have a point georger.

Yes there are hardly any pics that I can see that definitely support human-manipulated Ti
The Al and SS spirals definitely say human-manipulated to me.

I'm just pointing out that the information is muddy...even Tom on his page has some comments on maybe the Ti came from the matches now...

It's so easy to assume this "machined pure Ti" story: pointing to someone who used Ti back then in pure form....but I can't get past the question "What makes you think there's a lot of Ti, and that it was human manipulated"

And now it seems like the rare-earth stuff is trace ..i.e. not enough of it to make it in the primary summary?

If you have trace stuff, why let that direct you to color tv makers?

And things like gold? I mean it's so unlikely there was human manufacture of all those elements.

So why cherry pick the ones you like...you have to look at all of them at once and have an explanation.

And distinguish between just having a trace of the element, and something that was obviously manipulated by humans.

People forget the earth's crust has a huge hand in determining things in our world. Especially in 1971 when we hadn't yet polluted as much as today!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 12:56:08 AM by snowmman »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3812 on: October 28, 2018, 12:59:29 AM »
a HUGE red flag is buried in what Tom posted above..his first lengthy post

Tom said
"Strangely we did not find any other examples of pure Ti in the McCrone listings. "

That statement alone should make you think about what you thought people were saying about Ti, and realize maybe you were assuming something that wasn't true, just because people wanted to look at Tektronix for some reason.

I don't know Tom's machinery, what control elements were used for comparison, etc.

The data doesn't seem to justify the statements in the news interviews, in my mind.
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3813 on: October 28, 2018, 01:05:13 AM »
I love thinking about Vietnam

Vietnam is currently a huge exporter of rare earth minerals.
Any place there are large amounts of rare earth reserves, or heavy metals, it seems like there are higher concentrations of those elements in soils/surface.

We shouldn't limit ourselves to USA distributions of elements in soils..especially if the rare earth stuff is real. (it's probably even less likely that the rare earth stuff is going to be provably human manipulated...there are no pictures of any of that stuff)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 01:07:27 AM by snowmman »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3814 on: October 28, 2018, 01:07:00 AM »
And if the claim of "Cooper worked with Ti" is based on a single particle that doesn't look natural...

Then that single particle needs a lot more analysis.

You can't combine other measurements of Ti, and then point to one picture that looks odd and say "See...it's all human manipulated"

That's combining data badly.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 01:07:46 AM by snowmman »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3815 on: October 28, 2018, 01:13:24 AM »
I still don't understand about the use of higher voltages to see past Ti oxide layers present on all Ti?

If you do that, what happens with naturally occurring Ti oxides? They look invisible or do you detect them as Ti oxides somehow?

This whole Ti detection process doesn't seem straightforward, for distinguishing Ti versus all the natural or unnatural Ti oxides that can exist.

Tom says Titanium dioxide was not detected, by measuring oxygen and ruling it out. But the titanium oxides have oxygen too.

The rationale and process is all confusing to me.

updated: rereading Tom's explanation, it kind of makes sense, but I'd like to see results on control items (natural and man-made) to really believe

Tom said
Our instruments read through the oxide layer. The SEM electron beam penetrates the sample according to the electron volts the beam is set at. To determine if it has an oxide layer over pure, you turn up the voltage so it penetrates deeper. If it is a pure oxide the ratio of O to Ti stays the same, if it is only a coating then the Ti goes up in proportion.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 01:23:14 AM by snowmman »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3816 on: October 28, 2018, 01:19:12 AM »
Like Tom alluded to in his post above, his web page in the Ti section has this sentence

It was finally determined that the titanium, chlorine and sodium signatures could be found in match heads. Match residue was found in abundance on the second sampling of the tie and this is consistent with the description of Cooper as a "chain smoker"
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3817 on: October 28, 2018, 03:36:31 AM »
Reading Tom's page on pollen:

Subsequent samples from 2011 clearly showed the trilete aperture (Fig. 1 top row) which is specific to spores and allowed the firm identification of Lycopodium clavatum

Lycopodium clavatum has been considered a top homeopathic medicine for hair loss.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 03:37:05 AM by snowmman »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3818 on: October 28, 2018, 03:46:51 AM »
On the pollen page, it says titanium dioxide was found. If so, then any Ti found had to be differentiate from TIO2 which was also found (thru EDS). This is strange, since the particle page implies no titanium dioxide at one point.


Many Lycopodium spores appeared to be covered with an ornamentation of small round particles that are a common feature of the surface texture in Impatiens pollen (Fig. 3). Once their identification as Lycopodium was determined, the ornamentation was out of place, and subsequent Fig. 3 Close-up of spore wall showing powder residue.  EDS analysis showed that the ornamentation was in fact a powder residue made up of titanium dioxide, silicates and alumina. These materials are typically used for pill coatings. This powder suggests that Cooper would have probably been taking some form of pill on a regular basis.
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3819 on: October 28, 2018, 04:18:12 AM »

Lycopodium clavatum has also been used as a homeopathic medicine for male impotence/erection dysfunction.
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Offline Unsurelock

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3820 on: October 28, 2018, 07:58:11 AM »
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I love thinking about Vietnam

Vietnam is currently a huge exporter of rare earth minerals.
Any place there are large amounts of rare earth reserves, or heavy metals, it seems like there are higher concentrations of those elements in soils/surface.

We shouldn't limit ourselves to USA distributions of elements in soils..especially if the rare earth stuff is real. (it's probably even less likely that the rare earth stuff is going to be provably human manipulated...there are no pictures of any of that stuff)

Snow,

In researching the rare earth elements, I got stuck thinking that the source could be trace nuclear waste. Fission creates 40-50 different elements by splitting the bigger atoms. What helped give a better understanding was the Yttrium findings on the spreadsheet.

The yttrium particles were large and concentrated, and there was something like 30x more of it than would be found in nature, far too much and too concentrated to be created by splitting atoms. One big particle was mashed together with another concentrated hunk of another element, too. Also something you wouldn't find in nature. Tom's got it right about the manufacturing environment, in my opinion.

Edit: Tom and the CS team, I should say.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 09:32:19 AM by Unsurelock »
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3821 on: October 28, 2018, 09:13:09 AM »
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Lycopodium clavatum has also been used as a homeopathic medicine for male impotence/erection dysfunction.

and cancer..
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FLYJACK

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3822 on: October 28, 2018, 09:16:51 AM »
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I love thinking about Vietnam

Vietnam is currently a huge exporter of rare earth minerals.
Any place there are large amounts of rare earth reserves, or heavy metals, it seems like there are higher concentrations of those elements in soils/surface.

We shouldn't limit ourselves to USA distributions of elements in soils..especially if the rare earth stuff is real. (it's probably even less likely that the rare earth stuff is going to be provably human manipulated...there are no pictures of any of that stuff)

Snow,

In researching the rare earth elements, I got stuck thinking that the source could be trace nuclear waste. Fission creates 40-50 different elements by splitting the bigger atoms. What helped give a better understanding was the Yttrium findings on the spreadsheet.

The yttrium particles were large and concentrated, and there was something like 30x more of it than would be found in nature, far too much and too concentrated to be created by splitting atoms. One big particle was mashed together with another concentrated hunk of another element, too. Also something you wouldn't find in nature. Tom's got it right about the manufacturing environment, in my opinion.

(besides the CRT) Yttrium is used in radar systems as a filter.. Radomes are coated with Yttrium, also in some electronic components and even some solder formulations. 

I am looking at large scale military/NASA radar installations...

yttrium was used in missile radomes, advanced ceramics.. it was also used in some missile decoy flares.

Was Cooper's fake bomb made with "missile decoy flares"??

« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 12:25:02 PM by FLYJACK »
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3823 on: October 28, 2018, 12:24:47 PM »
When you talk about what the percentage of Yttrium is in nature, it's probably different in other countries/regions

Vietnam is a top exporter (now) of scandium and yttrium. More than China? hard to believe.

The top exporters of Rare-earth metals, scandium and yttrium are Vietnam ($113M), Australia ($69.8M), China ($66.5M), Hong Kong ($49.5M) and Thailand ($19.2M). The top importers are Japan ($180M), Malaysia ($70M), Singapore ($48.5M), Thailand ($8.01M) and the United States ($4.3M).
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Offline snowmman

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Re: Clues, Documents And Evidence About The Case
« Reply #3824 on: October 28, 2018, 12:30:54 PM »
I can't find Yttrium in the spreadsheets. Where is it?
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