Bulljax said: IMO, most likely the 3 packets/packages landed on TBAR as one rubber banded bundle.


There is a doc which describes in some detail exactly what the Ingrams found. It goes without saying you will reject that, so I wont waste my time further with you. This was all covered at DZ years ago, but your claims were rejected there too! 

'At approximately 9:45AM February 12, 1980, Harold Ingram and his wife Patricia Lynn Ingram, appeared at the Portland Office and furnished Portland case agent Ralph P. Himmelsbach with a plastic baggie containing several clumps of $20 bills, including those with the serial numbers previously listed, and additional serial numbers identifiable as part of the Cooper ransom.'

Let me paraphrase: 'The bills came out in clumps held together by sediment and rubber bands around each 'parcel'.

'Once at the apartment Harold's brother-in-law tried to separate the pieces and remove the pieces of rubber bands which were around each bundle. He wanted to dry out the money over night so they could try to reclaim it at a bank. The Ingrams tried to separate bills from each banded parcel ...'

It is very clear there were at least 2-3 bundles found with rubber bands around each bundle or parcel, however you care to term it. The brother-in-law and others testified he/they removed pieces of bands from at least 3 bundles.

Four more bills were turned in later and one of those bills reportedly had pieces of rubber bands on it. We have multiple banded parcels, total est value said to be $5900. All of this is consistent with the bank employee who wrapped each bundle with rubber bands. Everything was sent to the Lab for finger printing and analysis. There are also lab reports! But, none of this matters to a person as devoted to myth building and insults as you are.

 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Bulljax said: IMO, most likely the 3 packets/packages landed on TBAR as one rubber banded bundle.


There is a doc which describes in some detail exactly what the Ingrams found. It goes without saying you will reject that, so I wont waste my time further with you. This was all covered at DZ years ago, but your claims were rejected there too! 

'At approximately 9:45AM February 12, 1980, Harold Ingram and his wife Patricia Lynn Ingram, appeared at the Portland Office and furnished Portland case agent Ralph P. Himmelsbach with a plastic baggie containing several clumps of $20 bills, including those with the serial numbers previously listed, and additional serial numbers identifiable as part of the Cooper ransom.'

Let me paraphrase: 'The bills came out in clumps held together by sediment and rubber bands around each 'parcel'.

'Once at the apartment Harold's brother-in-law tried to separate the pieces and remove the pieces of rubber bands which were around each bundle. He wanted to dry out the money over night so they could try to reclaim it at a bank. The Ingrams tried to separate bills from each banded parcel ...'

It is very clear there were at least 2-3 bundles found with rubber bands around each bundle or parcel, however you care to term it. The brother-in-law and others testified he/they removed pieces of bands from at least 3 bundles.

Four more bills were turned in later and one of those bills reportedly had pieces of rubber bands on it. We have multiple banded parcels, total est value said to be $5900. All of this is consistent with the bank employee who wrapped each bundle with rubber bands. Everything was sent to the Lab for finger printing and analysis. There are also lab reports! But, none of this matters to a person as devoted to myth building and insults as you are.

 

There is NO physical rubber band evidence. It is all hearsay.. the Ingrams have given vague and conflicting stories. that is nature of such events

The Bank never said they randomized and rubber banded the packets/packages, they said they randomized and rebanded the Bundles. These are specific terms for banks.

Your paraphrase appears to be a media report, but since you have a history of self serving distortions and fabrications I'll keep looking myself.

and

where did Snowmman get the idea that the Ingrams said one bundle didn't have rubber bands?


Ckret quote

"I found the cover sheets to the lab reports which summarize the findings. I also found the interviews of the Ingram family with regard to the recovery. I found the following:

The money was not stuck together with muck.

The money was found under just a few inches of sand.

They were still bundled with rubber bands, however, the bands crumbled to the touch when they picked them up.

The Ingrams took the money to their house and laid it out to dry.

The only thing in the lab report was that the money was consistent with being submerged in water and that sand recovered off the money was consistent with silt from the Columbia. "


Tom Kaye quote..

"We can't tell the original configuration of the three bundles. While Ingram might be able to comment, at this late date, it would have to be taken with a grain of salt. There were all sorts of conflicting stories on the find scenario. So much so that we are discounting any and all descriptions of how they found it except that it was buried in shallow sand and had rubber bands attached. In fact we are trying very hard not to use ANY modern testimony from anyone. Only original information/ testimony from the period in question. "

Flyjack, your efforts to ignore all the physical evidence and to replace it with your own baseless scenario resembles the efforts of a certain politician in the USA to rewrite history.  In the matter of the politician, it is just a simple case of the chickens coming home to roost.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Bulljax said: IMO, most likely the 3 packets/packages landed on TBAR as one rubber banded bundle.


There is a doc which describes in some detail exactly what the Ingrams found. It goes without saying you will reject that, so I wont waste my time further with you. This was all covered at DZ years ago, but your claims were rejected there too! 

'At approximately 9:45AM February 12, 1980, Harold Ingram and his wife Patricia Lynn Ingram, appeared at the Portland Office and furnished Portland case agent Ralph P. Himmelsbach with a plastic baggie containing several clumps of $20 bills, including those with the serial numbers previously listed, and additional serial numbers identifiable as part of the Cooper ransom.'

Let me paraphrase: 'The bills came out in clumps held together by sediment and rubber bands around each 'parcel'.

'Once at the apartment Harold's brother-in-law tried to separate the pieces and remove the pieces of rubber bands which were around each bundle. He wanted to dry out the money over night so they could try to reclaim it at a bank. The Ingrams tried to separate bills from each banded parcel ...'

It is very clear there were at least 2-3 bundles found with rubber bands around each bundle or parcel, however you care to term it. The brother-in-law and others testified he/they removed pieces of bands from at least 3 bundles.

Four more bills were turned in later and one of those bills reportedly had pieces of rubber bands on it. We have multiple banded parcels, total est value said to be $5900. All of this is consistent with the bank employee who wrapped each bundle with rubber bands. Everything was sent to the Lab for finger printing and analysis. There are also lab reports! But, none of this matters to a person as devoted to myth building and insults as you are.

 

There is NO physical rubber band evidence. It is all hearsay.. the Ingrams have given vague and conflicting stories. that is nature of such events

The Bank never said they randomized and rubber banded the packets/packages, they said they randomized and rebanded the Bundles. These are specific terms for banks.

Your paraphrase appears to be a media report, but since you have a history of self serving distortions and fabrications I'll keep looking myself.

and

where did Snowmman get the idea that the Ingrams said one bundle didn't have rubber bands?


Ckret quote

"I found the cover sheets to the lab reports which summarize the findings. I also found the interviews of the Ingram family with regard to the recovery. I found the following:

The money was not stuck together with muck.

The money was found under just a few inches of sand.

They were still bundled with rubber bands, however, the bands crumbled to the touch when they picked them up.

The Ingrams took the money to their house and laid it out to dry.

The only thing in the lab report was that the money was consistent with being submerged in water and that sand recovered off the money was consistent with silt from the Columbia. "


Tom Kaye quote..

"We can't tell the original configuration of the three bundles. While Ingram might be able to comment, at this late date, it would have to be taken with a grain of salt. There were all sorts of conflicting stories on the find scenario. So much so that we are discounting any and all descriptions of how they found it except that it was buried in shallow sand and had rubber bands attached. In fact we are trying very hard not to use ANY modern testimony from anyone. Only original information/ testimony from the period in question. "

Flyjack, your efforts to ignore all the physical evidence and to replace it with your own baseless scenario resembles the efforts of a certain politician in the USA to rewrite history.  In the matter of the politician, it is just a simple case of the chickens coming home to roost.

What physical evidence?

I believe there were band fragments attached to the money when found, WHERE WERE THEY attached, evidence? that is all I ask..

Is there physical evidence or not?

All I get is personal attacks for asking that question.. people don't like their perceived reality being challenged.

BTW,, which certain politician? besides engaging in a logical fallacy,, they ALL try to rewrite history.. it is the nature of politics.

Are you living in an Igloo at the North Pole?

Fly, what are you implying? since no evidence has been recovered it was never there?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Fly, what are you implying? since no evidence has been recovered it was never there?

The Bank said they randomized the bundles (groups of packages) not the packets/packages. Ckret got that wrong..
 

Everything I have seen indicates that the Bank and/or FBI randomized the "bills", not the "bundles".

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Fly, what are you implying? since no evidence has been recovered it was never there?

The Bank said they randomized the bundles (groups of packages) not the packets/packages. Ckret got that wrong..
 

Everything I have seen indicates that the Bank and/or FBI randomized the "bills", not the "bundles".

Robert99,,

Sorry, let me clarify, this is important.

Correct the bills were circulated and serial numbers randomized well before the hijacking..

But, I am referring to the bundles which are multiples of (x100 $20 bills) = $2000.

Before the ransom delivery the Bank randomized and re-rubber banded the bundles to make them look hastily prepared. Normally they are rubber banded into ONE bundle ($10000) of 5 packets/packages (x100 $20 = $2000)..

one packet/package = 100 x $20 = $2000
one bundle = 5 packet/packages = $10000

They opened each bundle of 5 packets/packages and re-rubber banded them in random groups of packages/packets.

Cooper ransom = single bundles were randomized 3, 4, 5, 6?  packages/packets per bundle.

So, 3 packets/packages like TBAR may have been one single randomized rubber banded bundle..

Before being put into Cooper's money bag, the randomized bills were put into different size bundles.  Some bundles had noticeably more than 100 bills per bundle and some had noticeable less than 100 bills per bundle.  This was intentionally done in order to give Cooper the impression that putting the ransom together was a rush job and that the bill serial numbers were not recorded.  There were about 100 total bundles in the ransom, but that does not mean that each bundle contained exactly 100 bills.

There is no evidence whatsoever that any of these approximately 100 bundles were tied together in any manner.  How banks bundle money in their own vaults is now how the money was bundled to put in Cooper's money bag.  The fact that three bundles of bills contained approximately $6000 and that a bit less than $6000 was found at Tina Bar is purely a coincidence and doesn't mean anything.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

here it is...

Does this match Kaye's coordinates?

Here is Kaye's overlay chart from his original website. Shows money location and todays road vs road in 1980.